Italy Christmas 2010: a visual diary
- Thread starter dankwan
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calebk said:
I use almost exclusively, tri x and yes I develop myself all b/w. Naturally color is lab processed.
You can actually recover shadow detail through various methods of development however it best starts with good metering, some basic understanding of the zone system and to "know" your film, its characteristics, latitude etc. Just follow "expose for shadows and develop for highlights"
Diafine is know as a very low contrast developer giving a very flat histogram under flat light so it too helps preserve some degree shadow detail. Under high contrast, low light situations, diafine gives you the speed you need at the expense of shadow detail if you don't trade off light for dark when metering.
I made a conscious decision to use a vintage lens, old skool film and low contrast developer to achieve the look of historical Europe, knowing full well the cloudy/rainy/snowy weather during that period. Coupled with shooting interiors as well, it seemed like the best compromise to shoot tri x at 1600 and develop in diafine
Luckily it worked out pretty well. I am anticipating some of the latent thoughts in your initial question so hope that helped somewhat
Ahh I see. I've been trying to grasp the zone system and what it means to "expose for shadows", but I'm not quite sure I understand. Maybe you can explain just briefly how you meter? I've been generally trying to over expose slightly, half a stop to a stop (so while I rate my Tri-X at 1600 I'm exposing as if it were 800).
Is diafine readily available in Singapore, or did you have to order it from overseas? I've heard lots of good things about it when it comes to pushing. I've also heard a bit about Microphen's qualities when pushing film (and I think this is available in Ruby?)
Hi calebk
I just recommended this to a fellow CSer, we've been having some meaningful pms on metering and the zone system
OK so let me try to explain simply, you will first, need to understand that camera meters are dumb, they try to expose everything to 18% grey (which is also known as middle grey or zone 5 by AAs zone system), so if you point your camera at a white cat, and providing the cat fills the whole frame, the meter will make it 18% grey, you point it at a black cat, it will give you a reading to make the back cat 18% grey as well. So in high contrast situations with very deep shadows and very bright highlights, if you point at the lights/highlights it will make it 18% grey thereby losing all shadow detail and vice versa if you point your camera at the deepest shadows, so when metering you need to first figure the best compromise to capture sufficient shadow detail and not to blow out the lights/highlights. This means you need to point your camera at what you feel will be middle grey and expose for that. Since there really isnt any real detail in the highlights and probably more information in the shadows, you expose for shadows (ie point your camera at something that isnt black black)
Understand that film or even digital sensors have an inherent latitude, in b/w film its about 5 stops between the dark and lights, anything more than that, you will have to sacrifice one for the other, normally its sacrificing the highlights in order to have some detail (texture) to the shadows.
Example: I recently shot some snow scenes, how i did it was point the camera directly at the snow, set everything so that the leica meter read "o", then open the aperture 2 to 2.5 stops, so essentially I intentionally overexposed the snow so as to make it white-white when developed. The rest will fall in place. This is a very simplistic illustration.
One other simple way is to rate your film lower that the box speed, shoot tri X at 300 or 320, but still bear in mind the zone system. Film can easily handle over exposure.
That is a very simplistic explanation and I appreciate it very much. I actually started shooting on film a few years back and moved to digital soon after. I always rely on the in camera reflective spot meter to meter and I actually understand and practice the concept of exposing for what matters most (thus subconsciously using the zone system).
However I do believe my bessa runs an evaluative or center-weighted reflective meter, so spot metering for the detail that matters on the fly gets a lot harder than it used to be on my 5D. I have been surviving. Haha. How do you meter? Do you have a handheld meter?
However I do believe my bessa runs an evaluative or center-weighted reflective meter, so spot metering for the detail that matters on the fly gets a lot harder than it used to be on my 5D. I have been surviving. Haha. How do you meter? Do you have a handheld meter?
Diafine is unfortunately, not available in singapore, nor is it the magic bullet for pushing film, it is low contrast and doesnt handle flat light as well as some other developers. Its best for hi contrast conditions and when you need speed without thinking too much. Its good as in you develop all film at room temp and set times. All film except neopan gets 3 mins in solution a and 3 minutes in solution b, plus you need to shoot at the suggested speed (for example tri X is box recommended to only be shot at 1600 but I have found that shooting it at anyways between 800-1250 gives best results) again this is internationally overexposing in order to preserve shadow detail, I also find it flattens out the curve and stretches midtones better when I rate it lower than the suggested speed. Grain isnt that pretty with diafine
You can push pretty much with any developer, rodinal, hc110b, microfine, pyro it just comes down to the recipe, timing and whether you like the end result
I dont have much experience with microphen, I prefer Xtol or DDX when pushing film, however that involves temperature/timing/agitation etc. Its just more complex and chances of less than acceptable results is obviously higher. I wouldnt risk this with my holiday shots. Grain is finer and midtones quite lovely. Contrast is very controlled as well with Xtol. You do lose sharpness as Xtol achieves fine grain by dissolving the edges. I have plans in experimenting with an xtol/rodinal/sulfite blend in order to have speed, sharpness and range, just havent found time to do so yet.
All this can get in the way of the zen of photography, best is focus on the shot and worry about the rest later. I am always here to help if you have any developing questions or if you need a recipe/suggestion
Im not sure about metering what matters most, another example, at least for the leica, ismy wifes portrait, I actually meter the highlights on her face then open 1.5 stops so that the part that matters most, her eyes and her face, get more than 18% grey, ie more light so as to glow a bit more.
Yeah, digital meters are do everything for you whereas center weighted meters are just way simpler, they basically read a circle of light about 15% the size of your frame so you'll need to figure out how big it is and how to best manipulate it
I just use the on board meter if I have it or in cameras that dont, a simple sekonic l308 for low light situations and mostly sunny 16 for regular light. Even with that best is to use your eyes and gut, the meter just gives you a guideline of the light values in the scene.
The advantage is if you self develop you can then compensate during to correct
Ah but of course, your metering must be conistent throughout the roll!
calebk said:
Aha therein lies the rub! It doesn't have to be if you understand how developer works on film via different development techniques. Naturally not like completely off but it can help for minor 1-1.5 stop errors. Long stand or semi stand development can actually handle slightly different ei on the same roll which is tantamount to variations in metering.
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