Is the S5 Pro still a worthwhile buy?

[Henessy]

This is something a lot of Fuji users will lament. The loss of the S* Pro line will be sorely felt by these users. In this sense it is also imperative that I pick up the S5 Pro myself if I want to benefit from its imaging qualities. Don't know about others here, but I haven't seen too many second-hand S5 Pros in the B&S section.

As one who have just started using S5pro. I really hated myself for not plunging into fuji when I wanted to upgrade from the D100 2 years back. Really very satisfied with the S5 pro especially when I am photoshop iliterate. Really hate those post process stuff. Other than resizing.

After knowing that there is a very high tendency that fuji will discontinue their DSLR line. I am really sad and anguished. It is really such a pity to see that happen. If Fuji can just continue producing their S5pro. I am more than happy.

Not sure what will happen when I used back to nikon bodies should there be no more available fujifilm DSLR bodies in the market anymore, when it comes to colours and DR straight out from the camera.

Perhaps we can start an online petition to ask fuji to retain their DSLR line or at minimum the S5pro

 

[jacob]

Looking at the the Revised Earning Forecast, it is unlikely there will be more aggressive new products in the DSLR sector from Fuji. Economy will slow down very quickly and Singapore is already in recession. Many have been retrenched, so you can expect good buys from used camera shops, as more will dump their cameras for cash soon.


Amid slack economic conditions throughout the world as well as surges in the prices of natural resources and raw materials, the operating environment in the current fiscal year ending March 2009 has been harsher than that of previously forecasted. Moreover, economic trends are expected to be further deteriorating and there will be less possibility of the early improvement in the operating environment. In response to these situations we intend to pursue the profit improvement initiatives such as additional cost down programs, cutting back the SG&A expenses and the structural reforms.

Considering the impact of the additional expenses for those initiatives and further deterioration of operating environment, we are revising our estimated earnings forecast downward as for the first half period and full fiscal year.


http://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/news/2008/0828_01_01.html

what we're seeing now is more nikon bodies eg D300 being dumped than used S5pro. D90 will follow soon within 6 months down the road. am thinking of dumping my D300 too.

my 2 cents thinking.

 

[fWord]

As one who have just started using S5pro. I really hated myself for not plunging into fuji when I wanted to upgrade from the D100 2 years back. Really very satisfied with the S5 pro especially when I am photoshop iliterate. Really hate those post process stuff. Other than resizing.

After knowing that there is a very high tendency that fuji will discontinue their DSLR line. I am really sad and anguished. It is really such a pity to see that happen. If Fuji can just continue producing their S5pro. I am more than happy.

Not sure what will happen when I used back to nikon bodies should there be no more available fujifilm DSLR bodies in the market anymore, when it comes to colours and DR straight out from the camera.

Perhaps we can start an online petition to ask fuji to retain their DSLR line or at minimum the S5pro

Fuji is probably so disillusioned with the DSLR market that they have completely given up on it. Realistically, people moving into the DSLR market want fast response, sharpness/ clarity, resolution etc and some of this is tied in with the MP count. In recent times however with the high MP APS-C sensors coming out, it's becoming pretty obvious that some lenses can't resolve sufficient amount of detail to create a sharp image.

So what do we have? 15+MP images from APS-C class DSLRs that are actually soft and lacking in 'bite'.

People will naturally overlook the S5 Pro after just looking at the MP count and seeing that it doesn't have the blazing-fast FPS that other DSLRs seem to have. The incredible DR of this camera has almost become a little-known fact, or maybe a best-kept secret, depending on how people see it. :bsmilie:

But yeah, being so tied down to my Canon-Leica system, I only have two choices left: fork out more for a second system or forget Fuji altogether. If I were definitely getting a pay rise by Jan next year then that would be awesome of course. :lovegrin:

 

[fWord]

what we're seeing now is more nikon bodies eg D300 being dumped than used S5pro. D90 will follow soon within 6 months down the road. am thinking of dumping my D300 too.

my 2 cents thinking.

Hmm...why dump the D300? Isn't it still quite warm out of the oven?

Suspect that the majority of people who bought the S5 Pro are either deeply in love with it or are pros who will use it till its heart stops beating. That's why they're not hitting the market as second-hand specimens.

A lot of us are so darn spoilt. Recession and all but we still have this hobby. Actually, I thought Singapore was in 'technical recession' only. Is it officially a recession now?

 

[Nikkornos]

Pretty bad actually. Dubious Bank CEO announced retrenchment, maybe more to come. I thought he is supposed to be the first to go. Anyway, PosBank should be taking the beating in place of Dubious bank, as it always had been.

For many industries, there are NO orders for the next 2 quarters. How bad can it be? Massive retrenchment happened in major American run companies. Many projects terminated. Actually, we already saw such signs in Q1 08. The industries forcasters already knew a big storm coming. However, the banking sector did nothing.

For those who commited to properties since 07, sad to say, this may be translated into a -20to -30% loss in value. Or worse. HDB prices is just an illusion. We are paying rents effectively and the lease is less than 99 years.

LasVegas Sands shares dropped from US$128 to $8. Many US stock prices fell more than 70-80%. If the Marina IR project is dead, if Sands declares bankrupcy, it will spell severe troubles for everyone on this island. Don't trust what the Americans tell us. The worse is yet to come.

DBS Group, one of eight banks hired to arrange a 5 billion Singapore dollar, or $3.4 billion, loan for Las Vegas Sands' Singapore casino, said it sees "no indication of default" on the debt.

Pretax income for Las Vegas Sands in the first half was $80.1 million less than needed to cover fixed charges including interest expenses, Las Vegas Sands said in the filing. The company had a shortfall of $80.7 million at the end of last year. The company's pretax income was 1.2 times the charges at the end of June 2007.

Shares of Las Vegas Sands plummeted Thursday by 33 percent to $7.85 in New York trading after saying it might default on loans arranged by Citigroup, Goldman Sachs Group and Lehman Brothers. That's the biggest drop since it went public in 2004 and extended a slide this year to 92 percent.

The company's earnings may be hurt by Chinese government restrictions on mainland residents visiting Macao, where Las Vegas Sands operates the Venetian Macao, the biggest casino resort in Asia. Macao, a former Portuguese colony, is a semi-autonomous city and the only place in China where casino gambling is legal.

Casino gambling revenue in Macao fell to 26 billion patacas, or $3.28 billion, in the third quarter from 28.9 billion patacas in the second.


Cash is king now. But for S$1100 for a S5 Pro, its what some Singaporeans would call as 'peanut'.

 

[old-newbird]

Effective pixels 6.1 million
Sensor photo detectors 12.3 million

i looked up dpreviews and saw the above.

it means its 6.1mp but wad abt the sensor? enhancer?

i saw the ad from audio hse... wad do u guys think of that promo?

 

[photobum]

Effective pixels 6.1 million
Sensor photo detectors 12.3 million

i looked up dpreviews and saw the above.

it means its 6.1mp but wad abt the sensor? enhancer?

In its heart, the S5 Pro is actually a 12.3 megapixel DSLR, but half of it is used for recording extended dynamic range. They named it S and R pixels. S-pixels are high-sensitivity receptors for capturing light source, and R-pixels are for dynamic range.

Take a look at these illustrations:

(Full frame and crop area) Original RAF converted with Fujifilm HyperUtility HS-V3. Dynamic Range set to 400%.

(12.3 MP crop) Original RAF converted with Fujifilm HyperUtility HS-V3. Dynamic Range set to 400%.

(6.1 MP crop) Original RAF converted with Fujifilm HyperUtility HS-V3. Dynamic Range set to 400%.

Notice that the image is a bit softer at 12.3 MP. Also, the highlights are slight blown.

 

[photobum]

Sharpening:

100% sharpening (12.3 MP crop)

200% sharpening (12.3 MP crop)

300% sharpening (12.3 MP crop)

400% sharpening (12.3 MP crop)

500% sharpening (12.3 MP crop)

 

[Henessy]

In its heart, the S5 Pro is actually a 12.3 megapixel DSLR, but half of it is used for recording extended dynamic range. They named it S and R pixels. S-pixels are high-sensitivity receptors for capturing light source, and R-pixels are for dynamic range.

Hi, so if I set the image size to large, 6 megapixels is used for DR purpose, the other 6 megapixels are for light capturing purpose. When I set the image size to medium, half of it is for DR and the other half is for light capturing purpose? In that case, which size shouldI use?

Thanks

 

[photobum]

Hi, so if I set the image size to large, 6 megapixels is used for DR purpose, the other 6 megapixels are for light capturing purpose. When I set the image size to medium, half of it is for DR and the other half is for light capturing purpose? In that case, which size shouldI use?

Thanks

My suggestion is to use 'M' when shooting JPEG or just set to 'RAW', which you will take care of the conversion during post processing.

 

[Henessy]

My suggestion is to use 'M' when shooting JPEG or just set to 'RAW', which you will take care of the conversion during post processing.

Hi, actually I just shoot jpeg. So when I shoot using large size, the image will not be as sharp as medium? If this is so, may I know why? Thanks

 

[photobum]

Hi, actually I just shoot jpeg. So when I shoot using large size, the image will not be as sharp as medium? If this is so, may I know why? Thanks

Simple:

Large image size = 12.3 MP (4256 x 2848)
Medium image size = 6.1 MP (3024 x 2016)
Small image size = 3.54 MP (2304 X 1536)

Here are why:

According to Adrian Clarke of DPReview, "With three million photodiode pairs in three million photosites on the entire sensor, the camera's LSI algorithms then calculate the intermediary values, giving a file output of six million pixels. With six million photodiodes and a six million output file, resolution will improve beyond current 3G Super CCD technology, however Fujifilm is keen to stress that it is not a 'true' six million pixel CCD."

According to Thom Hogan, "[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Right up front we have to get to one of the key controversies of the Fujifilm DSLRs: are they 6mp or 12mp cameras? Fujifilm says: "12.3 MegaPixels (S – 6.17MP, R – 6.17MP)." The truth is that the sensor is a 6mp sensor that happens to have two photo diodes at every Bayer position. The "S" photo diode is larger than the "R" photo diode, and it is this difference in size (and thus receptivity to light) that allows the camera to conjure up a larger dynamic range than a traditional sensor. But in terms of real resolution--the thing you usually associate with megapixels--the camera is no different than a 6mp SuperCCD would produce without the extra photo diodes.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]That's not to say that it operates like a 6mp camera, though (this is where people get confused). First, one of the unique aspects of the SuperCCD designs Fujifilm uses compared to the Sony and Nikon sensors you find in the other Nikon mount bodies is that the Bayer pattern is angled at 45 degrees. While this doesn't sound like it should produce a difference, it does. Essentially, by angling the Bayer pattern the Fujifilm engineers get a "boost" in horizontal and vertical resolution at the expense of diagonal resolution. Traditional Bayer patterns (as used in all the Nikon DSLRs) get a "boost" in diagonal resolution at the expense of horizontal and vertical resolution. So what, you say? Consider gravity and its impact on how detail is organized in both the natural and man-made world: if you keep the camera perpendicular to the gravitational force (i.e. hold the camera level you get the maximum resolution ability of the Fujifilm bodies on the axes that have the most detail. This is not a trivial increase. Technically, it works out to as much as a 1.4x difference, so the 3000x2000 native pixels for the Fujifilm 6mp SuperCCD are acting more like a 4200x2800 sensor on the primary axes. The drawback is that diagonal lines are going to be more likely to show stair stepping than on a traditional Bayer sensor of the same number of pixels (which puts its highest resolution capability on the diagonal). I'll have more to say on this in the Performance section, as the theoretical and practical limits don't actually align perfectly. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The second benefit that Fujifilm uses apparently has to do with the demosaic into 12mp. The default JPEG size for the 6mp S5 Pro is 12mp! In other words, the camera interpolates to a larger image size by default (you can turn this off). But as you'll learn, the 12mp image is slightly better at rendering detail than you'd expect from taking a 6mp image and using traditional interpolation routines. I conjecture that Fujifilm has a unique demosaic that takes into account something about the unique spatial relationship of the photo diodes. All the other demosaics I know of that convert Fujifilm raw images essentially rotate the Bayer data 45 degrees and then run a normal demosaic, and I've never seen any of them get quite the same level of detail that Fujifilm seems to achieve (though many come quite close--the operative words in this paragraph are "slightly better," and I do mean slightly, as in many people won't notice a difference).

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I wish we could move on from the sensor, but I need to address something that keeps coming up in discussions. Essentially, some people hypothesize that because the S and R photo diodes in the Fujifilm sensor are equally spaced (i.e. there's an R photo diode essentially positioned in the middle of every diamond of four S photo diodes, and vice versa), that there really are 12mp worth of photo diode positions. The conclusion these people then reach is that you should be able to retrieve 12mp worth of resolving power if you just put the two pieces of data together correctly (and no one, including Fujifilm, has done that). The problem is this: microlenses. Each S and R pair of photo diodes apparently lives under a single microlens set. Put another way, each S and R pair gets essentially the same light. Thus, there's really no "extra" resolution to be had."[/FONT]

 

[Henessy]

Simple:

Large image size = 12.3 MP (4256 x 2848)
Medium image size = 6.1 MP (3024 x 2016)
Small image size = 3.54 MP (2304 X 1536)

So does it mean that 3.54 MP is the sharpest, as it uses 12 megapixels of photo sensors? Or it is just resize from 6.1 MP output since it is the optimum quality you can get?

 

[photobum]

So does it mean that 3.54 MP is the sharpest, as it uses 12 megapixels of photo sensors? Or it is just resize from 6.1 MP output since it is the optimum quality you can get?

It can be. I haven't tried using small image size before.

 

[fWord]

Cash is king now. But for S$1100 for a S5 Pro, its what some Singaporeans would call as 'peanut'.

:bsmilie: I like the way you said that, reminds me so much of the way a close army friend used to talk. Currently I'm all in cash, waiting to jump in at any time. Question is, when is the right time? That said, if you're prepared to keep your holdings for the next 2-3 years, the economy may have bounced back by then.

If at that stage you've made a huge profit, $1000 will indeed be mere 'peanuts'.

 

[fWord]

Photobum, thanks for those sample images and crops. One thing is for sure, I'd only ever shoot for 6MP images on the S5. Even color saturation seems to take a hit when a 12MP image is produced, and it appears that these images do not tolerate sharpening well. At 200% it looks like some artefacts are already being introduced.

In both the 12MP and 6MP images (without sharpening) I seem to see 'stepping' in the transitional area between red and white in that HDB block and this perhaps correlates well with what the DPReview analysis mentions: that there is 'stepping' in diagonal lines.

How well do the 6MP images take sharpening?

I just dropped by the shop today and saw the S5 in the flesh. It looked pretty much forgotten amongst all the newer cameras that had special kit price labels on them. The guy at the shop probably didn't know a thing about the S5, but thankfully all I wanted to know from him was the price.

These salespeople must have a tough job. New digicams come out seemingly every few months, how could we possibly expect them to know everything?

 

[photobum]

How well do the 6MP images take sharpening?

More sharpening tests coming your way.

 

[bullrider]

For me is worth it....go to liang court they still have a good deal.

Some candid shots

 

[photobum]

Sharpen:

No sharpening (6.1 MP full frame)

100% sharpening (6.1 MP full frame)

200% sharpening (6.1 MP full frame)

300% sharpening (6.1 MP full frame)

400% sharpening (6.1 MP full frame)

 

[photobum]

Continue,

500% sharpening (6.1 MP full frame)