well how expensive is it to hire nude models? I've done modeling before and I dont think my rates are as high 
*shameless plug*
*shameless plug*Is Nudity Photography a taboo subject here?
- Thread starter IceCoolBeer
- Start date
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Hmmm, think I was on holiday when this debate was raging.
It's a slippery slope to start on. Once nudity is allowed on CS, there is NO guarantee it will not degenerate into pornography.
It's not as though there are no other avenues to showcase your pictures if you are into photographing artistic nudes. There's photo.net and photosig. If CS chooses NOT to allow nudes, it should be no skin off your noses. If I may say, John Peri's nudes often cross the line into pornography, but there are genuine bodyscapes by other photographers which are aesthetically pleasing without being titillating.
Now that's an important word. Titillation. I would say it helps us to draw the defining line between artistic nudes and pornography (whether hard core or soft core). If the photographer's aim is to titillate and sexually arouse his intended audience (or even himself, which in my opinion more often than not the case as well, despite protestations to the contrary), it's pornography. It does not matter whether his subject is nude, scantily clothed or even fully clothed.
Since the capacity to be titillated varies so much between individuals (and is also a matter of taste), and this is something I would personally rather not be exposed to (a matter of personal values), is it asking so much that I would prefer to keep this forum free of such material so I can enjoy the discussion of photography without worrying about being tempted?
More later (maybe).
It's a slippery slope to start on. Once nudity is allowed on CS, there is NO guarantee it will not degenerate into pornography.
It's not as though there are no other avenues to showcase your pictures if you are into photographing artistic nudes. There's photo.net and photosig. If CS chooses NOT to allow nudes, it should be no skin off your noses. If I may say, John Peri's nudes often cross the line into pornography, but there are genuine bodyscapes by other photographers which are aesthetically pleasing without being titillating.
Now that's an important word. Titillation. I would say it helps us to draw the defining line between artistic nudes and pornography (whether hard core or soft core). If the photographer's aim is to titillate and sexually arouse his intended audience (or even himself, which in my opinion more often than not the case as well, despite protestations to the contrary), it's pornography. It does not matter whether his subject is nude, scantily clothed or even fully clothed.
Since the capacity to be titillated varies so much between individuals (and is also a matter of taste), and this is something I would personally rather not be exposed to (a matter of personal values), is it asking so much that I would prefer to keep this forum free of such material so I can enjoy the discussion of photography without worrying about being tempted?
More later (maybe).
hi BobmanBobmann said:Oh. By the way, I am learning bodyscape(artistic nude photography) soon. Anyone want to join me?
i keen to learn/shoot bodyscape. how to go abt it?
reno77 said:
I think it has got something to do with the forbidden apple. Before we had R(A) movies, people were saying WoW. Now that we have it, it is only some Dirty Old Men who frequent those cinemas with B grade movies, some in some foreign lingo. So, I guess Playboy or other soft porn magazines are the same. Forbidden fruit. Those who have been to those more liberated places would have seen them all. BTW, there are plentiful of porn, all sorts of it in the Internet, and mostly for free if you wish to look for them. Internet makes the difference, that censorship now becomes meaningless. These days, even kids before puberty could stumble upon the most hard of hardcore porn. So, it is really meaningless to censor, or to self censor.
Nude photo is the same. All the more, with the Steve Chia scandal, it gives nude photo a bad name, and makes us associated with that name.
Very often, we exercise self censorship, the kiasu syndrome, or just in case, we get into the wrong side of the law.....
But, what is the purpose behind it? Art, expression of art, curiosity, testing, testing to try out new things, new experience, new views?
Hmm...interesting thread. Just a couple of weeks ago, I was abit apprehensive about posting queries on nude photography. Finally decided to go ahead but explained myself clearly on the photographer's interest.
Guess it has to do with the individual's upbringing, the society he grows up in, amount of exposure, and also his/her willingness to open their minds and think "straight".
For one thing, I feel that the maturity level of Singaporeans is very low, or maybe the government simply likes controlling Singaporeans generally. Even simple common-sensical stuff like keeping the place clean we need to be warned, have signs asking passengers to move in when in MRT trains, blah blah blah...nude photography to be promoted? Wait a thousand years maybe...
Guess it has to do with the individual's upbringing, the society he grows up in, amount of exposure, and also his/her willingness to open their minds and think "straight".
For one thing, I feel that the maturity level of Singaporeans is very low, or maybe the government simply likes controlling Singaporeans generally. Even simple common-sensical stuff like keeping the place clean we need to be warned, have signs asking passengers to move in when in MRT trains, blah blah blah...nude photography to be promoted? Wait a thousand years maybe...
burnt_toastsg said:
I'll have to take exception to that. Has it occurred to you that it may be the mark of a truly mature society NOT to allow corrupting influences to have free rein?
burnt_toastsg said:
A broad sweeping statement like this is most unfair. It only goes to show how much thought you put into your posting before hitting "submit reply". Your reply has nothing at all to do with how CS handles nude photography. The Govt's stance on it is an altogether different matter.
Regarding nude not being "promoted", go read and find out what exhibitions are on-going that involves nude photography of late. I don't see or hear it being banned. Do you seriously expect anywhere in the world where the authorities will actually champion nude photography and launch a campaign to encourage people to practise it? (and it's so ironic since you did mention that there are campaigns for every little thing)
Back to the issue of common courtesy, of course, you may find alot of things "common sensical" [sic] but has it occured to you that even if something was all about basic common sense (like not littering, or moving to the center of the train cabin), people still somehow fail to do so?
Isn't it common sense and of course, a matter of common decency to give up your seat for old folks or a pregnant lady? Well, do you ever wonder why there are campaigns to remind public transport users to do so in the first place? Because some people don't do so.
Go read the forum/feedback pages from Today/Streats/Strait's Time and you will realise that there will always be feedback from the general public about certain people not being kind/considerate enough etc etc...
So, should the relavent authorities sit back and just let the population at large learn gracious-ness by themselves? Well, if they did, then you will see another flood of letters asking for something to be done (or why no action is taken...)
You have gotten common-sense, courtesy, and of course, maturity (in dealing with nude photography) all mixed up (as it were) and even so, you hardly made a case against the issue of handling nude photography here in Clubsnap (which is the main issue being discussed here)
Please do not confuse inconsiderate behavior with the policy of Clubsnap on issue of handling nude photography.
If you wish to OT and go off tangent regarding the Govt's policies on any issue at all, please air your views else where. We do respect your right to voice out your opinion but this is not the place. Perhaps you can seek redress in an ulternative forum.
Thank you.
I know this thread was started about 2 years - so has anyone found out what is the 'official' stand on nudity now that we have the Crazy Horse etc coming in? I think the govt is okay if it's artistic - coz MICA allows and supports exhibition of artistic nude photography - the problem is - the definition of 'artistic' is extremely subjective.
I think it is NOT the government - I think it is the mentality of our societies (not just Singaporean - but SE Asian) as a whole - for East Asian countries - they are more liberal - i suspect - even in China.
Why are we so afraid of nudity? Because it makes us feel so vulnerable? Because we NEED to be clothed - so that we can express our identities / personalities / etc?
Why are fashion models so highly paid compared to a nude model? - Because the fashion industry makes relatively lots more moolah then an 'artistic' endeavour like nude modelling? And of course - if one becomes a porn star (OF COURSE IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN IN SINGAPORE!) - say in the US - or just be a pseudo porn star on the Internet - (I used the word pseudo coz I think there are many fake porn stuff there - after all it's ONLY acting - sometimes - of course some ARE real!) - one can earn lots of money, at least MORE than modelling nude artistically.
Photographers and artists don't make much money in Singapore - unless you become famous - and usually (correct me if I am wrong) - the fashion photographers are the ones who make the major moolah - esp if they hit it big in the US or Europe. 'Artistic' photographers of nudes? - In the first place - they don't have a huge public platform like those seasonal fashion shows in Paris / New York / Milan /Tokyo or even our very own Singapore Fashion Fest. Also - tell me - WHO WANTS TO BUY ARTISTIC PHOTOS IN SINGAPORE LET ALONE PAY GOOD MOOLAH FOR THEM?
I am doing research and study on the concepts of THE BODY - the philosophical and aesthetic implications - one of my favourite philosophers is French feminist - Camille Paglia - she supports pornography and thinks pornography can be an empowering tool for women who participate in pornography WILLINGLY. Then of course there are others like Jacques Derrida and Maurice Merleau-Ponty who talk about how the body affects art and vice- versa. Maybe I am trying to 'intellectualize' nudity or intellectualize my pursuits as a nude model - after all - ANYBODY bold enough can be a nude model right? You don't need to be slim or beautiful - this is art - it's about interpretation and expression.
So why do I feel so defensive sometimes - and why do I not want to tell just ANYONE (unless you are a photographer / you are very interested in photography / you are an artist / - coz maybe you can hire me!! / you are someone who likes to discuss such topics /or we just venture into the subject)? Until today - my Mom is still very uncomfortable BUT she complains that the photographers and artists are NOT PAYING ME ENOUGH - haha!! Sigh ... so it still boils down to money! I am very very fortunate to have a WONDERFUL WONDERFUL MARVELLOUS HUBBY who SUPPORTS ME ALL THE WAY - he actually appeared on a TV prog (Get Real - Diana Ser interviewed us) - to show his support of my interest. (I have to use the word 'interest' because this nude modelling thing DOES NOT PAY ENOUGH TO QUALIFY AS WORK!!)
I have many friends who ask me - if I am paid such peanuts - why do I still continue doing what I am doing? - And I have no other reason except that I love Art and this is my little contribution to Art - I believe there is a synergy between the photographer/artist and the model - it's something quite intangible but it's there - if the model is not giving out positive vibes or being very uptight - that is going to affect your work or artistic endeavours as a photographer/painter/artist/sculptor/whatever.
A niggling part of me wonders whether I am narcissistic - well - maybe just a little bit - but I think I don't have a perfect body or face - I am comfortable with my body and with being nude but there are so many other MUCH MUCH MORE BEAUTIFUL WOMEN - much much more beautiful than me - if I START TO COMPARE! I am beautiful in my own ways - and of course I love myself and am grateful for this body given to me. But I think the more important things are the intangibles - my character / personality / intellect etc etc.
Then my friends in the US asked whether I would 'progress' to the next step - make an artistic nude film?? Well - I have to think of the storyline first - the nudity must not be gratuitous - it must be part of a good storyline. ANYONE INTERESTED??? Haha ! We could do a graphic novel thingy!! Or I could do a Tracey Emin and delve into Confessional Art - those of you who feels that you cannot just call any form of self-expression - 'Art' - should do a seach on Tracey Emin. She fascinates AND exasperates me at the same time - her ideas usually provoke this kind of reaction: GAWD - SO BLOODY AWFUL - ANYONE COULD HAVE THOUGHT OF IT - but WAIT - WHY HAVEN'T I THOUGHT OF IT??? haha!! She was recently interviewed on one of the Brit channels and she was COMPLETELY SMASHED as in DRUNK TO THE GILLS!!
Ok me got to go to celebrate CNY - having Duan Nian Fan now - and my hubby is still not here!!
I think it is NOT the government - I think it is the mentality of our societies (not just Singaporean - but SE Asian) as a whole - for East Asian countries - they are more liberal - i suspect - even in China.
Why are we so afraid of nudity? Because it makes us feel so vulnerable? Because we NEED to be clothed - so that we can express our identities / personalities / etc?
Why are fashion models so highly paid compared to a nude model? - Because the fashion industry makes relatively lots more moolah then an 'artistic' endeavour like nude modelling? And of course - if one becomes a porn star (OF COURSE IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN IN SINGAPORE!) - say in the US - or just be a pseudo porn star on the Internet - (I used the word pseudo coz I think there are many fake porn stuff there - after all it's ONLY acting - sometimes - of course some ARE real!) - one can earn lots of money, at least MORE than modelling nude artistically.
Photographers and artists don't make much money in Singapore - unless you become famous - and usually (correct me if I am wrong) - the fashion photographers are the ones who make the major moolah - esp if they hit it big in the US or Europe. 'Artistic' photographers of nudes? - In the first place - they don't have a huge public platform like those seasonal fashion shows in Paris / New York / Milan /Tokyo or even our very own Singapore Fashion Fest. Also - tell me - WHO WANTS TO BUY ARTISTIC PHOTOS IN SINGAPORE LET ALONE PAY GOOD MOOLAH FOR THEM?
I am doing research and study on the concepts of THE BODY - the philosophical and aesthetic implications - one of my favourite philosophers is French feminist - Camille Paglia - she supports pornography and thinks pornography can be an empowering tool for women who participate in pornography WILLINGLY. Then of course there are others like Jacques Derrida and Maurice Merleau-Ponty who talk about how the body affects art and vice- versa. Maybe I am trying to 'intellectualize' nudity or intellectualize my pursuits as a nude model - after all - ANYBODY bold enough can be a nude model right? You don't need to be slim or beautiful - this is art - it's about interpretation and expression.
So why do I feel so defensive sometimes - and why do I not want to tell just ANYONE (unless you are a photographer / you are very interested in photography / you are an artist / - coz maybe you can hire me!! / you are someone who likes to discuss such topics /or we just venture into the subject)? Until today - my Mom is still very uncomfortable BUT she complains that the photographers and artists are NOT PAYING ME ENOUGH - haha!! Sigh ... so it still boils down to money! I am very very fortunate to have a WONDERFUL WONDERFUL MARVELLOUS HUBBY who SUPPORTS ME ALL THE WAY - he actually appeared on a TV prog (Get Real - Diana Ser interviewed us) - to show his support of my interest. (I have to use the word 'interest' because this nude modelling thing DOES NOT PAY ENOUGH TO QUALIFY AS WORK!!)
I have many friends who ask me - if I am paid such peanuts - why do I still continue doing what I am doing? - And I have no other reason except that I love Art and this is my little contribution to Art - I believe there is a synergy between the photographer/artist and the model - it's something quite intangible but it's there - if the model is not giving out positive vibes or being very uptight - that is going to affect your work or artistic endeavours as a photographer/painter/artist/sculptor/whatever.
A niggling part of me wonders whether I am narcissistic - well - maybe just a little bit - but I think I don't have a perfect body or face - I am comfortable with my body and with being nude but there are so many other MUCH MUCH MORE BEAUTIFUL WOMEN - much much more beautiful than me - if I START TO COMPARE! I am beautiful in my own ways - and of course I love myself and am grateful for this body given to me. But I think the more important things are the intangibles - my character / personality / intellect etc etc.
Then my friends in the US asked whether I would 'progress' to the next step - make an artistic nude film?? Well - I have to think of the storyline first - the nudity must not be gratuitous - it must be part of a good storyline. ANYONE INTERESTED??? Haha ! We could do a graphic novel thingy!! Or I could do a Tracey Emin and delve into Confessional Art - those of you who feels that you cannot just call any form of self-expression - 'Art' - should do a seach on Tracey Emin. She fascinates AND exasperates me at the same time - her ideas usually provoke this kind of reaction: GAWD - SO BLOODY AWFUL - ANYONE COULD HAVE THOUGHT OF IT - but WAIT - WHY HAVEN'T I THOUGHT OF IT??? haha!! She was recently interviewed on one of the Brit channels and she was COMPLETELY SMASHED as in DRUNK TO THE GILLS!!
Ok me got to go to celebrate CNY - having Duan Nian Fan now - and my hubby is still not here!!
Artistic nudity bores the hell out of me. Give me some good porn any day.
I've seen many porn pictures which have more artistic value than most "artistic" nudes
I've seen many porn pictures which have more artistic value than most "artistic" nudes
Please read the recent discussion on this topic here:
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=174199
You will find the CS admin's stand on this issue.
Thanks.
- Roy
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=174199
You will find the CS admin's stand on this issue.
Thanks.
- Roy
Sion
Senior Member
mattlock said:
I have also seen porn stuff ... :embrass:
I bet you their porn stuff can be any times better then what you see here .... I meant their photog standard is not that low as you think .. quite high standard .. :sweatsm:
Sir Er Bu Ying ... :sticktong (sorry lost my hanyi pingying .. :embrass: )
Qing Sir ... ;p
yeah you'll be amazed how high the standards of photography can be for softcore porn photos.
(although I've seen some nice hardcore porn photos too)
I remember alot of beautiful jap AV star softcore photos, which involve alot of soft natural light, and beautiful skin tones.
Once in awhile I go back to those photos to get inspired.
Playboy in the 70s is highly regarded for its photography, and I remember reading an interview with the founder, he mentioned that all the covers were shot with 8x10 large format slide film
(although I've seen some nice hardcore porn photos too)
I remember alot of beautiful jap AV star softcore photos, which involve alot of soft natural light, and beautiful skin tones.
Once in awhile I go back to those photos to get inspired.
Playboy in the 70s is highly regarded for its photography, and I remember reading an interview with the founder, he mentioned that all the covers were shot with 8x10 large format slide film
Sion said:
Sion, aiya so easy to find one in Japanese Pornsite la. You can see bukkake with white liquid splashing all over the face, women walking on the streets with their naked body or shopping centres or parks. Women laying naked with shashimi neatly arranged on their bodies with old men surrounded her watching her and eating or playing with vegetables or octupus arms or eel or some other kind of seafood la.
Sion
Senior Member
Hey Bob,
Hontoo?
I've studied Japanese part-time for 4 years and have a certificate to prove it.
How come I don't know about Japanese porn? The teachers must me teaching us the wrong stuffs?
Hontoo?
I've studied Japanese part-time for 4 years and have a certificate to prove it.
How come I don't know about Japanese porn? The teachers must me teaching us the wrong stuffs?
- Status
