Is 'National Service' necessary?

[Yappy]

no ah....... read me post carefully. NS is GREAT!!! it is PERFECT!!!! I LOVE NS!!! IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY!!!! it is so perfect............. that it is necessary!!!! didn't you read the news? NS is GOOD!!!!!

"where on earth can we find a perfect system?" the answer is NS!!! it's perfect!!! it's great!!! how can you say NS is not perfect?? NS is perfect!!! comeon, agree with me!!! NS is great!!! NS is GREAT!!!! NS is GREAT!!! muhahahahahahaha!!!!

U are great!

However if you want ot quote, use all. The full quote is as follow:

"It is alright to disagree a if not the word 'Disagree' will never exist.

Pse correct me if I am wrong... where on earth can we find a perfect system?

Improvement is the key words and we need a lot of whistle blowers.. also ask ourself.. do we see improvements since?

If we did something we think is right or when we do it whole heatedly, stand up for ourself.. do not fear of being told that we are childish, accept criticisms as it is the only way to improve.

Be mindful but do not shiver.. why should we in the first place.

Don't forget you are one of the digits that will carry a rifle and stand on this ground and fight.

We are cowards? Do we call ourself cowards when we are receiving training to secure our future?

You, like many of our men, young and old, are trained.. I repeat we are trained and we are ready..

Last but not least.. if we do not have a stable and secure environment.. do you think investors will ever step on Singapore ground?

......Anybody would like to give an estimate as to the number trained? It is no secret!"Thanks

 

[Yappy]

I don't think the question is about whether NS is necessary. People who say it isn't probably doesn't care about Singapore or are not thinking deep enough about the consequences.

I feel a question that will yield more thought provoking responses would be, What are some of the controversial stuffs you see in NS?

For me, there are lots:

1. Time wasting -- Waiting around don't know for what (isn't NS supposed to be efficient?) Happens even for reservists (NSmen)!!

2. Call me back for NS to do silly stuffs. Now that I must say is a complete waste of my time, personal development and tax-payers' money. I don't mind if everyone has a fair share of doing productive stuffs but this is not the case.

3. The amount of money they waste in NS. I won't list here cos it may be confidential. But see Point 3 and you get a good starting picture

4. Over-hyped organization. Public sees the well-rehearsed readiness of our NS guys during NDay parades and all those events. they go Wow-wow. We read all those honey sweet words about NS from scholars in the papers. But, really?

Ask any lower ranked NS and NSF guys (3SG and below) how things REALLY function, whoa, it can be a big world of differernce what you find in reality. Again, this may be confidential so I'm not saying much.

Hi..

There are 2 ways of doing a task...

No1.. Order to do.. nobody know what you are capable of doing...you suffer in silent

No 2. Tell them what you can do.... ended up you may have too much to do

The choice is yours... try it may work and I sure they will assign you more value-added job!

 

[Yappy]

Every year we complain about this, but never improve.

In-Pro very fast, but

Out-Pro very slow!

Just hope that someone will pick it up and feedback....

 

[Kalas]

Again the Chinese saying..."You feed the army for 100 days and use them only in a day"!

So it is a waste?

I think this happened everywhere especially in big organistion where it is impossible to control all areas. The question is the extend of the misuse or abuse? e.g Singapore is one of the the least corrupted countries in the world.. the key word is 'least' and not 'No'..

You interprete.

i never doubted the need for a defense force,
but isn't 30k regular men enough?
do we really need conscripts?

look at our budget for it.
a big portion went to pay n training.
n after training n paying them for it,
times up n off they go back to civilian life.

training bill will be way down low without these regular intakes of freshies.

jude

 

[snowspeeder]

i never doubted the need for a defense force,
but isn't 30k regular men enough?
do we really need conscripts?

What makes you think that 30k regulars are enough? Do u know the troop statistics of each of the countries in the region?

 

[Kalas]

What makes you think that 30k regulars are enough? Do u know the troop statistics of each of the countries in the region?

i happen to know,
do u?

also, all those monies spend on hi-tech machinaries,
telling us how much of leverage they gave,
r they smoking us??

if numbers counts for winning a war,
then we might as well surrender now.
we can never match ANY of our neighbouring countries.

also, if 30k regulars is not enough,
how is the 20k of active non regulars n a 6 figures of cbl help?
r we going to fight it the old chinese way with human waves??? :bigeyes:

i believe in quality, not numbers.

jude

 

[afbug]

i happen to know,
do u?

also, all those monies spend on hi-tech machinaries,
telling us how much of leverage they gave,
r they smoking us??

if numbers counts for winning a war,
then we might as well surrender now.
we can never match ANY of our neighbouring countries.

also, if 30k regulars is not enough,
how is the 20k of active non regulars n a 6 figures of cbl help?
r we going to fight it the old chinese way with human waves??? :bigeyes:

i believe in quality, not numbers.

jude

Not bashing you but your comments are kind of dumb. Hi-tech machines, what are they? Roborts? You still need men to operate and man them! You think you have an automatic cannon that will move and fire on its own? A robortic tank? UAVs, what are they? They fly on their own? Still you need a pilot and ground crew to fly and maintain them. All these, still require men to operate them.

The backbone of any military is Infantry and that is men. At the end of the day if you win a battle, you still need Infantry on the ground to plant your flag and proclaim that the land belongs to you. A 200 million fighter jet and pilot won't do.

Lets say 30K men can form 5 divisions. And additional 20K men will give you 4-3 divisions of extra fighting power. The difference is hugh. Numbers dun count for winning a war but it sure gives you a hugh advantage. IF your enemy is as hi tect as you and he have 60k men and you got 30k men, who will be the likely winner?

 

[Kalas]

Not bashing you but your comments are kind of dumb. Hi-tech machines, what are they? Roborts? You still need men to operate and man them! You think you have an automatic cannon that will move and fire on its own? A robortic tank? UAVs, what are they? They fly on their own? Still you need a pilot and ground crew to fly and maintain them. All these, still require men to operate them.

The backbone of any military is Infantry and that is men. At the end of the day if you win a battle, you still need Infantry on the ground to plant your flag and proclaim that the land belongs to you. A 200 million fighter jet and pilot won't do.

Lets say 30K men can form 5 divisions. And additional 20K men will give you 4-3 divisions of extra fighting power. The difference is hugh. Numbers dun count for winning a war but it sure gives you a hugh advantage. IF your enemy is as hi tect as you and he have 60k men and you got 30k men, who will be the likely winner?

sorri, my so called comment not mine,
belongs to the higher auth,
rude of u to call him dumb.

btw what the f*** is roborts???

if our army is made up of pple like u,
n we hv 60k n the enemy 30k,
same hardware,
my bet is still on the hard core soldiers
rather than our local boy scouts we call soldiers.

jude

 

[afbug]

sorri, my so called comment not mine,
belongs to the higher auth,
rude of u to call him dumb.

btw what the f*** is roborts???

if our army is made up of pple like u,
n we hv 60k n the enemy 30k,
same hardware,
my bet is still on the hard core soldiers
rather than our local boy scouts we call soldiers.

jude

So which higher auth say that 30K of men power is enough? Quote him.

So now we're talking about the quality of soldiers? Change subject already? Aren't you talking about quantity of soldiers?

What are hardcore soldiers? Soldiers that been thru war right? SG soldiers never been thru war. You sure you will not crap your pants if MINDEF sent you to war? If MINDEF is stuff by ppl like you, SG will be invaded long time ago.

You dunno what are roborts? Check the dictionary. :bsmilie:

 

[dkw]

i happen to know,
do u?

jude

Actually, if you REALLY were in the know, you wouldn't be here boasting about it. So I think, you DON'T know........

 

[vince123123]

Even if he is boasting (which I will leave for him to rebutt), how do you draw a conclusion that a boaster is automatically someone not in the know?

Actually, if you REALLY were in the know, you wouldn't be here boasting about it. So I think, you DON'T know........

 

[vince123123]

If its perfect, and results in a total lesser number of days, then I think it will be a better way to present your options.

E.g. 14 days of CBL or 4 days of real work with proper execution.

Or 2 / 2.5 years of hurry rush, wait, idle, or 6 months of proper training with no wastage.

You take your pick.

Lets say the army is very effective, wasting no time in everything with perfectly planned schedule and perfectly executed.

We will be complaining,, wah lau no time to rest ah. damn shack ah,, how come so many things must do?

Lets say we no need to serve army, we will still complain, how come our forces so weak, how can we fight if someone wants to conqeur us?

System can be perfect.. but not humans and their thirst to satisfy their Wah Lau why like this

 

[Yappy]

i never doubted the need for a defense force,
but isn't 30k regular men enough?
do we really need conscripts?

look at our budget for it.
a big portion went to pay n training.
n after training n paying them for it,
times up n off they go back to civilian life.

training bill will be way down low without these regular intakes of freshies.

jude

I am not an expert in this area. However, if everybody can use a rifle dont you think it is the best for a defense of a country?

In rear situation, our regular may have to go to be deployed else where and who is to stay in our home land and take a rifle and take aim?

There is no absolute term to measure the cost of defending our nation.... the budget only shows figure to buy the hardware and software.. at the end of the day it is us that count.
If none of us is trained, then what is the use of having all the hardwares we have.
Our mindset must change. It is for our future. The next next next generations......

 

[Yappy]

If its perfect, and results in a total lesser number of days, then I think it will be a better way to present your options.

E.g. 14 days of CBL or 4 days of real work with proper execution.

Or 2 / 2.5 years of hurry rush, wait, idle, or 6 months of proper training with no wastage.

You take your pick.

That will be an idea situation.

Just want to know, during your dealing with your customers, do you ever encounter 'Waiting Time' ?

 

[Yappy]

sorri, my so called comment not mine,
belongs to the higher auth,
rude of u to call him dumb.

btw what the f*** is roborts???

if our army is made up of pple like u,
n we hv 60k n the enemy 30k,
same hardware,
my bet is still on the hard core soldiers
rather than our local boy scouts we call soldiers.

jude

So which higher auth say that 30K of men power is enough? Quote him.

So now we're talking about the quality of soldiers? Change subject already? Aren't you talking about quantity of soldiers?

What are hardcore soldiers? Soldiers that been thru war right? SG soldiers never been thru war. You sure you will not crap your pants if MINDEF sent you to war? If MINDEF is stuff by ppl like you, SG will be invaded long time ago.

You dunno what are roborts? Check the dictionary. :bsmilie:

Both quality and quanlity are important.

We need quality people to direct and many to shoot.

4.5 millions ppl; half can shoot,

wow 2.25 millions shots; but we need somebody to direct them to shoot at the right time at the right target

 

[Stratix]

Both quality and quanlity are important.

We need quality people to direct and many to shoot.

4.5 millions ppl; half can shoot,

wow 2.25 millions shots; but we need somebody to direct them to shoot at the right time at the right target

ya.

and the remaining 2.25 million are probably not singaporeans after all

 

[Yappy]

ya.

and the remaining 2.25 million are probably not singaporeans after all

Point noted.

We are not looking at 6.5 millions.. only 4.5 millions. The figure is only an estimation.

Nope... the rest are our senior citizens, the very young, the untrained and those refuse to be trained.

 

[Keltzar]

Two years of NS is good for a guy's development, though what I've seen of the young recruits these days is scary:
Sargent to recruit: " Come on, you can do it ... jump off the wall. Slowly"
Recruit shakes his head and refuses. This goes on for 10mins...

That said, aren't WMDs great? You won't need such a big army after that.
It levels the differences between big and small armies.

 

[Stratix]

Point noted.

We are not looking at 6.5 millions.. only 4.5 millions. The figure is only an estimation.

Nope... the rest are our senior citizens, the very young, the untrained and those refuse to be trained.

try going to the public swimming pools on weekend. note the ratio of singaporeans to those foreigners.

i was there just last sat. the ratio can be as bad as one singaporean to 2 foreigners. (yes there were more foreigners then locals.)

and given the fact that Singaporean statistical depts had long given up giving stats of singaporean CITIZENs (they gave the amount of people LIVING in singapore - that includes PRs and work/study passes)

so who are we really defending?

not to say, even before i enlist, i've already got 1st hand experience of waiting for nothing. I've already got to experience 1st hand, the detrimental effects of NS already (if not for NS, i'll have already got a job of my ambition)

 

[Yappy]

try going to the public swimming pools on weekend. note the ratio of singaporeans to those foreigners.

i was there just last sat. the ratio can be as bad as one singaporean to 2 foreigners. (yes there were more foreigners then locals.)

and given the fact that Singaporean statistical depts had long given up giving stats of singaporean CITIZENs (they gave the amount of people LIVING in singapore - that includes PRs and work/study passes)

so who are we really defending?

not to say, even before i enlist, i've already got 1st hand experience of waiting for nothing. I've already got to experience 1st hand, the detrimental effects of NS already (if not for NS, i'll have already got a job of my ambition)

Sorry to hear your bad experience. However many people have forgotten that we are now enjoying what had done since 1971.

If it is not because of the unpopular decision made in 1971, we would not be what we are today. It is thru the shear hardwork of everyboby that we can call ourselves Developed Country with our neighbouring countries still struggling to achieve.

Again as we move on, our needs change. We ask and demand for more. Where are we now in term of Maslow's need? I don't know. What i know is we(the majority)do not worry about our basis need. But at the end of the day if we not have a strong and committed Army and people, we will fall back!

Our survival and future depend on us!