is it nuts to do 2-camera combo for a holiday

[wonglp]

woah! haven't heard of GR at all and just read up on it now. thanks for bringing it up.
i would have been happy with just 28 and 35, so 21 with WAC is a bonus.
just curious though, which would have thinner DOF (both at 35mm equivalent FOV): 17/1.8 on m43 or 22/2.8 on the GR?

Not much diff, GR is about f3.5 dof at 35mm, while 17/1.8 gives f3.6 equivalent dof.

If dof is your game then perhaps voigtlander 17/0.95 (heavy lens) or Sony rx1 would be for u
I find the dof of 17/1.8 good enough (for me) and some 3d feel to it when shooting portrait with landscape background.

 

[agawads]

It also depends on where u r going.

 

[Tonysim]

Going to the three gorges and zhangjiajie soon in Nov, and would be bringing along the following 2-camera sets:

a) E-PL5 with P7-14 (mainly for the wide and self-portrait shots)
b) E-M5 with P12-35 (for interior and misc shots)

Maybe bringing along a O40-150 as well since I do not have any prime lens.

You may want to look into a suitable bag to carry and facilitate swapping of the cameras. A messenger bag would be ideal for a 2-camera setup, but depending on individual, backpack maybe more comfortable for trips lasting more than a week with lots of climbing up and down. If you use a backpack, it should be easy to reach your cameras from either left- or right-hand side since you would be swapping your cameras in and out throughout the day.

Have fun

 

[scroogee]

holiday in Tokyo/Kyoto, business trips in Beijing and Warsaw. i've never been to Japan or China before (unless you count HK) so i don't have a feel for what to expect. the latter two will already be in September so i'll just bring one camera as i'll likely just have a 1 or 2 free days.

That's why I sometimes bring along a x20 too. More than good enough all in one compact for me on lazy days.
But I guess if u are into comparing sensor sizes , u might consider other options like the RX100II .

haven't heard of the RX100 either. hehe, been away from the forums for too long. to be honest, i haven't been checking out cameras since i got the EM5 when it came out. my curiosity was piqued again only recently when i started seeing posters of the EP5 on the MRT.

i'm not particularly into sensor sizes or MPs, nor do i believe bigger/more is always better. what i'm after is a specific look of the output. i like shooting wide open but i'm not after razor thin DOF, just a certain pop and background separation as what i get with the 20/1.7 at normal-ish FOV and the 45/1.8 on the longer end, hence my question on what the DOF is like on the GR.
other than that, my only other requirements for a second body/compact is that it offers at least 28 and 35mm FOV, though i really would like 24mm. longer than 35mm would be a bonus but not necessary.

so as impressed as i am with the RX100, i think the DOF remains below my expectations. XE20 is actually more interesting because it has 112/2.8 so i can use E-M5 for wide to normal FOV duty. can't do that with RX100 because it's too slow on the long end at 94/4.9

Not much diff, GR is about f3.5 dof at 35mm, while 17/1.8 gives f3.6 equivalent dof.

If dof is your game then perhaps voigtlander 17/0.95 (heavy lens) or Sony rx1 would be for u
I find the dof of 17/1.8 good enough (for me) and some 3d feel to it when shooting portrait with landscape background.

sounds good. i'm also already content with the DOF from 1.8 lenses on m43. would've considered the 17/0.95 for occasional use if it had AF and not so heavy. i've also thought of the 25/1.4 but felt the DOF won't be that much thinner than 20/1.7 (or maybe i'm wrong).

read up on RX1 and i think it's too much for me. besides, i don't think i can live with just one FOV, which is why i'm considering a second body in the first place. at least the GR gives 2-3 FOVs, which happen to be what i use a lot. if the RX1 was at 28mm i might have gone for it and just cropped as necessary. even better if it has a built in crop mode like the GR. heck, at 24MP i think it could comfortably do 35mm cropped from a 24mm lens.

again, many thanks for inputs guys. other views/suggestions still welcome. planning to shop for GR or XE20 this weekend or any other choices that might come up. if i like them enough then i might not get the GX7 after all. or maybe sell EM5 and get GX7 anyway so i won't have to use ND when shooting wide open in bright light

 

[keithwee]

Have fun

Anyway for Japan and China , I've been to both places (China 4 times in last 5 yrs and Japan twice in last 3 yrs) my advice is still largely the same coming to lenses choice. U'll enjoy it.

But what made Japan memorable was i kena-Ed snow at freezing temperatures once and my EP3 ended up dripping wet. It survived but on hind-sight , weather resistance is good to have.

What's the XE20 ? R U referring to the X20 ?
I'm been using x20 for a few months so far and I really recommend it over the Leica DLux6 , RX100 all of which I've tried too. Never tried a RX1 before but the fixed focal length isn't for me

 

[scroogee]

You may want to look into a suitable bag to carry and facilitate swapping of the cameras. A messenger bag would be ideal for a 2-camera setup, but depending on individual, backpack maybe more comfortable for trips lasting more than a week with lots of climbing up and down. If you use a backpack, it should be easy to reach your cameras from either left- or right-hand side since you would be swapping your cameras in and out throughout the day.

i use Lowepro Passport Sling. a bit tight for a couple of m43 cameras in the 2 slots it has, but doable. extra lenses in pouches and stashed in the expandable compartment of the bag where i can also chuck the 2nd camera into if i suddenly need to have both hands free. i also have Retrospective20 which is a bit bigger, but also much heavier so i actually haven't used it in a while. anyway, my plan is to have one camera in-hand or around my neck most of the time and if it suddenly rains, put the lighter of the cameras into the gf's pretty handbag which i'm quite sure she'll shelter more than me :bsmilie:

love the Passport Sling because of the way it kinda wraps around you, though i wish it was a tad bigger, or at least a zippered outside compartment. thinking of replacing the insert with a slightly wider or longer one, or one that has a tablet slot. or maybe i'll shop for a Porter bag while in Japan, hehe. i've been looking for a slightly bigger soft bag but haven't spotted any in SG.

i use a Tamrac Evolution 8 backpack when flying (it fits under the seat and has a laptop compartment), or when i go out with a tripod. the Passport Sling is folded flat and checked in.

messengers are indeed easier for lens changing, specially if it has a zippered top rather than a flap cover.

 

[agawads]

i use Lowepro Passport Sling. a bit tight for a couple of m43 cameras in the 2 slots it has, but doable. extra lenses in pouches and stashed in the expandable compartment of the bag where i can also chuck the 2nd camera into if i suddenly need to have both hands free. i also have Retrospective20 which is a bit bigger, but also much heavier so i actually haven't used it in a while. anyway, my plan is to have one camera in-hand or around my neck most of the time and if it suddenly rains, put the lighter of the cameras into the gf's pretty handbag which i'm quite sure she'll shelter more than me :bsmilie:

love the Passport Sling because of the way it kinda wraps around you, though i wish it was a tad bigger, or at least a zippered outside compartment. thinking of replacing the insert with a slightly wider or longer one, or one that has a tablet slot. or maybe i'll shop for a Porter bag while in Japan, hehe. i've been looking for a slightly bigger soft bag but haven't spotted any in SG.

i use a Tamrac Evolution 8 backpack when flying (it fits under the seat and has a laptop compartment), or when i go out with a tripod. the Passport Sling is folded flat and checked in.

messengers are indeed easier for lens changing, specially if it has a zippered top rather than a flap cover.

The Passport Sling II has a slightly bigger insert. I have tried a few bags, and this really wraps around the body once it's seasoned. Agree on the zippered external pockets.

I usually carry a mid-zoom/wide-zoom on a body and another compact zoom/prime.

 

[scroogee]

oops, yeah, i meant X20. shows how out of the loop i am.

my E-PL1 survived a harsh winter but my boots didn't. i took care to slow down the temperature change when moving indoors/outdoors by putting the camera in the bag and waiting a bit before taking it out again. as for my boots, snow lodged into the sole and some water seeped into very small cracks in the rubber, expanded and contracted, and by the fourth day the sole basically crumbled. lesson learned: don't put your shoes near the heater, as tempting as it might be to have toasty feet before stepping out into the cold.

OT, but just for lolz

 

[TWmilkteaTW]

No its not..

what important is end of the day you are happier person and enjoy your trip..
some prefer to go lighter.. some prefer to "bring more so they can capture more" and etc reasons... it depends on what u want and how u feel about it

 

[Tonysim]

i've been looking for a slightly bigger soft bag but haven't spotted any in SG.

messengers are indeed easier for lens changing, specially if it has a zippered top rather than a flap cover.

You may want to check out the ONA messenger bags (available in SG), which are larger and softer than your Lowepro Passport Sling, but it has a flap cover though.

 

[scroogee]

Not much diff, GR is about f3.5 dof at 35mm, while 17/1.8 gives f3.6 equivalent dof.

If dof is your game then perhaps voigtlander 17/0.95 (heavy lens) or Sony rx1 would be for u
I find the dof of 17/1.8 good enough (for me) and some 3d feel to it when shooting portrait with landscape background.

i just realized that 35mm on the GR is just a crop from 24mm, which itself is also a crop from the actual FL of 18.3.
so 35mm on GR would be a total crop factor of 1.9 and the DOF would be equivalent to that of f5.3 on FF.
compared to 17/1.8 on m43 which would be 35/3.6 on FF, the DOF on the GR would be quite a bit thicker.
or put another way, it's 18.3/2.8 (GR) vs. 17/1.8 (m43).
did i get the logic right? my head hurts...

 

[microcosm]

Simple rule of thumb (which I usually pack for holidays).

(1) If I am renting a car or I know I will be having my own vehicle throughout the trip, then it is a large array of gear in Pelican cases. Belt system to carry 1 camera + lens attached for off the track shooting.
(2) If I am going to be on a packaged tour where I am in cattle class with others on a coach, then it is 1 camera (1 spare body, usually a compact camera or GoPro) and maximum of 3 lenses. (MFT), 2 lenses for 35mm format camera system. No medium format at all.
(3) If it is going to be a trip where I know I will be trekking a lot, or going off road and doing some climbing, outdoor activities, it is usually a E-M5 + PL12-35mm with a GoPro for videos and selfies. This is my lightest set up and everything is in a waist pouch/bag. Absolute portability and in this kind of trip, I will usually bring a monopod that serves as a walking stick/camera support.

Hope this helps.

 

[dniwkh]

i'm not particularly into sensor sizes or MPs, nor do i believe bigger/more is always better. what i'm after is a specific look of the output. i like shooting wide open but i'm not after razor thin DOF, just a certain pop and background separation as what i get with the 20/1.7 at normal-ish FOV and the 45/1.8 on the longer end, hence my question on what the DOF is like on the GR.
other than that, my only other requirements for a second body/compact is that it offers at least 28 and 35mm FOV, though i really would like 24mm. longer than 35mm would be a bonus but not necessary.

so as impressed as i am with the RX100, i think the DOF remains below my expectations. XE20 is actually more interesting because it has 112/2.8 so i can use E-M5 for wide to normal FOV duty. can't do that with RX100 because it's too slow on the long end at 94/4.9

sounds good. i'm also already content with the DOF from 1.8 lenses on m43. would've considered the 17/0.95 for occasional use if it had AF and not so heavy. i've also thought of the 25/1.4 but felt the DOF won't be that much thinner than 20/1.7 (or maybe i'm wrong).

To me going 2 bodies in MFT, you must have an ultrawide. Without an ultrawide, I think a 24-70 FF camera will be better than 2 mFT bodies + 2 lens with similar weight.

If I am going with two MFT bodies, it will be 7-14mm + 45mm f1.8.

 

[scroogee]

for me, lens change from wide/normal to ultrawide is less urgent and not a reason for me to go with 2 bodies. stuff i shoot at ultrawide aren't going anywhere so i can take my time switching lenses to 9-18 (9mm is plenty wide for me).

it's the lens change from normal to tele that's making me consider a two body setup. there's usually not enough time for a lens change when something interesting is suddenly happening across the street.

as for going FF, indeed D600+24-85/3.5-4.5 is pretty compelling and relatively light. it is wide enough and long enough for most of my shots. but my 2-body setup gives 18-150mm for just 70g more. the thing with FF is that as soon as you bring a tele as a second lens, the setup will be well over 2kg

 

[dniwkh]

for me, lens change from wide/normal to ultrawide is less urgent and not a reason for me to go with 2 bodies. stuff i shoot at ultrawide aren't going anywhere so i can take my time switching lenses to 9-18 (9mm is plenty wide for me).

it's the lens change from normal to tele that's making me consider a two body setup. there's usually not enough time for a lens change when something interesting is suddenly happening across the street.

as for going FF, indeed D600+24-85/3.5-4.5 is pretty compelling and relatively light. it is wide enough and long enough for most of my shots. but my 2-body setup gives 18-150mm for just 70g more. the thing with FF is that as soon as you bring a tele as a second lens, the setup will be well over 2kg

how do you get 18-150mm with a 2 body mFT setup?? 18mm as in FF 18mm? That is ultrawide.

As I said if you are not looking at ultrawide, a single FF zoom will almost always be better. Example, the nikon FF 24-120mm F4. At F4, its DOF is very close to the F3.6 that you are used to. And it is a single zoom from 24-120mm. It will definately be faster than switching bodies. At 120mm, you can easily crop to get 150mm and still probably get better IQ than a mFT.

Looking at your first post, 75mm f1.8 + 17mm f1.8 combo. I am pretty sure a D600+24-120mm F4 can give you similar DOF across the entire range. Plus you get 24mm, 50mm, 70mm, 105mm which are ALL VERY useful. Not to say superior DR. ISO is probably even due to the wider aperture of mFT lens. I don't know how heavy they are but it is probably similar.

 

[keithwee]

Simple rule of thumb (which I usually pack for holidays).

(1) If I am renting a car or I know I will be having my own vehicle throughout the trip, then it is a large array of gear in Pelican cases. Belt system to carry 1 camera + lens attached for off the track shooting.
(2) If I am going to be on a packaged tour where I am in cattle class with others on a coach, then it is 1 camera (1 spare body, usually a compact camera or GoPro) and maximum of 3 lenses. (MFT), 2 lenses for 35mm format camera system. No medium format at all.
(3) If it is going to be a trip where I know I will be trekking a lot, or going off road and doing some climbing, outdoor activities, it is usually a E-M5 + PL12-35mm with a GoPro for videos and selfies. This is my lightest set up and everything is in a waist pouch/bag. Absolute portability and in this kind of trip, I will usually bring a monopod that serves as a walking stick/camera support.

Hope this helps.

I like the way this guy packs.
Especially the part about Pelican cases really sounds hardcore

For me, setup (2) and (3) aligns with what I do just that i replace the GoPro with the x20.
Seems like the PL12-35 is the preferred bring along lens now

 

[wonglp]

i just realized that 35mm on the GR is just a crop from 24mm, which itself is also a crop from the actual FL of 18.3.
so 35mm on GR would be a total crop factor of 1.9 and the DOF would be equivalent to that of f5.3 on FF.
compared to 17/1.8 on m43 which would be 35/3.6 on FF, the DOF on the GR would be quite a bit thicker.
or put another way, it's 18.3/2.8 (GR) vs. 17/1.8 (m43).
did i get the logic right? my head hurts...

Ya you are correct. O17/1.8 would yield a shallower DOF

 

[scroogee]

how do you get 18-150mm with a 2 body mFT setup?? 18mm as in FF 18mm? That is ultrawide.

body#1 with 17/1.8, switch to 9-18/4-5.6 when needed. that gives me 18mm FF on the wide end. body#2 with 75/1.8 yields the 150mm FF on the long end. total weight 1.4kg

As I said if you are not looking at ultrawide, a single FF zoom will almost always be better. Example, the nikon FF 24-120mm F4. At F4, its DOF is very close to the F3.6 that you are used to. And it is a single zoom from 24-120mm. It will definately be faster than switching bodies. At 120mm, you can easily crop to get 150mm and still probably get better IQ than a mFT.

Looking at your first post, 75mm f1.8 + 17mm f1.8 combo. I am pretty sure a D600+24-120mm F4 can give you similar DOF across the entire range. Plus you get 24mm, 50mm, 70mm, 105mm which are ALL VERY useful. Not to say superior DR. ISO is probably even due to the wider aperture of mFT lens. I don't know how heavy they are but it is probably similar.

hmmm, this is interesting. i overlooked the 24-120. that + D600 is 1.6kg. heavier, but not bad. 35/4 ain't bad either. not so sure if it can beat the 75/1.8 on IQ, but it probably isn't that much worse either. i'll have to look into this more. it might boil down to a question of $$$.

i'll lose 18mm though. i wouldn't mind that if it was on a second or subsequent visit. but to clarify, it's not that i don't need ultrawide (else, i wouldn't bring the 9-18), it's just that i don't mind changing lenses to do so, hence i don't need to dedicate a second body for it. rather, i would dedicate the second body to tele because shots taken with those tend to be the ones that are fleeting.

 

[rhema83]

The point of a holiday is the holiday. Don't get too caught up with taking photographs. Bring a convenient setup, e.g. EM-5 + 12-50 and call it a day. If you really have to, put a fast prime in the bag for low light situations.

Unless this is a photography trip, then bring everything. ;p

 

[dniwkh]

The point of a holiday is the holiday. Don't get too caught up with taking photographs. Bring a convenient setup, e.g. EM-5 + 12-50 and call it a day. If you really have to, put a fast prime in the bag for low light situations.

Unless this is a photography trip, then bring everything. ;p

To me, a holidays has two parts, the holidays itself and the photo editing after the holidays. The photos I generate after the holidays is as impt if not more as I always feel happy looking at my old travel photos and looking forward to the next trip. a couple of years down the road, all you have will be the photos.

And a new trip will not replace that as the people has changed...