Interested in turning Pro?

[Jed]

google...

http://www.avenue8.com.sg/aboutus.html

Perhaps, my point might have been slightly lost. I'm not complaining about not being able to find information on Avenue 8, I'm complaining about the need to have to find that information in the first place.

If I, as a photographer, applied to Avenue 8 without providing details about myself, I'd be summarily rejected. Unless, maybe, I included in my application, "if you wish to know more about me, please google it."

I think not.

In any situation such as this, I think it's polite, respectful, and professional to care enough about any prospective applicants to take the time to tell them about about you. You're going to expect them to tell you a lot about themselves after all, that courtesy should be a two way affair.

 

[Benji77]

worst lah, those in their 40s no hope at all.. But wait.. if I dump in 100K, I would have easily set up a studio with : 2 sets of Nikon D3 - Lenses : 85mm f1.4/ 50mm F1.4 / 105mm VR Macro / 60mm Macro /70-200mm VR / 17-35mm /10-20mm Sigma / Optional : 14-24mm G Lens and the 24-70mm G Lens. (For Wedding Photography .. should be enough) + One set of Canon 1Ds MK III and 6 L Lens in the Pro Series.. this should take care of Agency Work yah..Also should be quite well equipped with Elinchrome Light Systems and covering quite a fair bit of necessary accessories...

You can set up the studio if you dump in $100K.
But I'd recommend you try product sales.

 

[onedollar]

worst lah, those in their 40s no hope at all.. But wait.. if I dump in 100K, I would have easily set up a studio with : 2 sets of Nikon D3 - Lenses : 85mm f1.4/ 50mm F1.4 / 105mm VR Macro / 60mm Macro /70-200mm VR / 17-35mm /10-20mm Sigma / Optional : 14-24mm G Lens and the 24-70mm G Lens. (For Wedding Photography .. should be enough) + One set of Canon 1Ds MK III and 6 L Lens in the Pro Series.. this should take care of Agency Work yah..Also should be quite well equipped with Elinchrome Light Systems and covering quite a fair bit of necessary accessories...

So I think age should not be a problem lah, if you want to turn pro.. there are many ways I think and to I think this is discremination .. but of cause, it's your call after all on all those requirements you want...

waste of time reading. nothing to do with this thread. yes.. u can dump the money to setup a studio, wait for a few years and you can turn it into a museum. so what u have the fastest horse in ur stable but you dont have hockeys?

 

[terrier08]

Not many people can buy sport car.. you noe.. and if you don't see your stating of age as a requirement as discrimination, then wat do you see it as? As a "leader" in the industry as you have stated, there is such a thing call corporate responsibility and putting an age there just turn off good creative people who might have it but didn't have the time or chance to do it in their earlier years!

So I hope the leaders can set good examples.. be it an opportunity or not to work with a leading photography company in Little Singapore...

My 2 cents worth.!

 

[terrier08]

waste of time reading. nothing to do with this thread. yes.. u can dump the money to setup a studio, wait for a few years and you can turn it into a museum. so what u have the fastest horse in ur stable but you dont have hockeys?

Don't think you get the main point here. waste of time to state more here with you!

 

[acidbern]

Hi, I'm new in clubsnap. Just happened to chance upon this photography forum recently. I'm in the commercial line. So I guess Ave8 is not really my forte.

worst lah, those in their 40s no hope at all.. But wait.. if I dump in 100K, I would have easily set up a studio with : 2 sets of Nikon D3 - Lenses : 85mm f1.4/ 50mm F1.4 / 105mm VR Macro / 60mm Macro /70-200mm VR / 17-35mm /10-20mm Sigma / Optional : 14-24mm G Lens and the 24-70mm G Lens. (For Wedding Photography .. should be enough) + One set of Canon 1Ds MK III and 6 L Lens in the Pro Series.. this should take care of Agency Work yah..Also should be quite well equipped with Elinchrome Light Systems and covering quite a fair bit of necessary accessories...

So I think age should not be a problem lah, if you want to turn pro.. there are many ways I think and to I think this is discremination .. but of cause, it's your call after all on all those requirements you want...

I'd say that this thread and the post requirements doesn't discriminate anyone. I don't understand why you would feel that it is discrimination. The company is just trying to filter out people who are trying to apply with the requirements stated in the very first post. If there's no stated requirements, I guess anyone would be replying (like you) and emailing. Which will end up with lots of time wasted on replying such cases when time can be used in a better manner. I'd would say that most companies has a set of rules and requirements to follow. That would make it more efficient when it comes to work.

What does these equipment got anything to do with turning Pro and this thread.

Having fantastic, state-of-the-art, expensive equipment doesn't generally make you a pro. It just makes you a "rich camera sales man" :bsmilie:. I remember reading up on a Fashion photographer in a overseas mag that uses just compact cameras to shoot and yet he produces great works of art.

owning all these equipments does not make you a pro, but sure can make you feel better, just like buying a sport car but don't own a driving licence.

TS is recruiting aspiring junior photographers to join their company, I do not see the requirement of age as a discrimination, (do note they did not state the requirement of how many years of experience in professional photography).

anyway, I see this opportunity are hard to come by, given the background of this company is one of the leaders in this industry.

I agree with you that this is an opportunity for young aspiring photographers who would like to make photography their career. Try everything when you are young. That's the spirit.

Not many people can buy sport car.. you noe.. and if you don't see your stating of age as a requirement as discrimination, then wat do you see it as? As a "leader" in the industry as you have stated, there is such a thing call corporate responsibility and putting an age there just turn off good creative people who might have it but didn't have the time or chance to do it in their earlier years!

So I hope the leaders can set good examples.. be it an opportunity or not to work with a leading photography company in Little Singapore...

My 2 cents worth.!

Don't think you get the main point here. waste of time to state more here with you!

Well, I guess it's really your 2 cents worth only. But I suppose everyone has their right to speak their mind.

I think that you don't get the main point too. That company just wants to employ people who are able to fit into their requirements. For whatever reasons that they might have. It's just that simple I suppose.

Well, a forum is a forum after all.

Lunch time over, back to work.

 

[Benji77]

Not many people can buy sport car.. you noe.. and if you don't see your stating of age as a requirement as discrimination, then wat do you see it as? As a "leader" in the industry as you have stated, there is such a thing call corporate responsibility and putting an age there just turn off good creative people who might have it but didn't have the time or chance to do it in their earlier years!

So I hope the leaders can set good examples.. be it an opportunity or not to work with a leading photography company in Little Singapore...

My 2 cents worth.!

Why do you see it as discrimination? Its profiling and setting characteristics that is required of the job. Its being specific. See it this way, let me give you an example. Your NICK is terrier08, mine is Benji77. Would I be right to say that we are both dogs?

 

[avenue8]

WOW!!!

I see that this age thingy is a very hot topic here....
Ok let me explain the situation here for the age limit.

We have had interns before who are above 30 and they can't seem to take instructions and coaching from younger fellow colleagues who are their senior in the office. I know this may just be a couple of bad apples in the basket but so far the median age that we prefer to train are those who are bet 23-29 yrs old as they already have what they want in mind and they'll work harder to make it out there.

Money is not the main aim to achieve here neither is it to have the best equipment in town. Its the kind of people that we are interested to train to represent as a professional photographer. The character and values of someone that makes a person no matter how rich or poor he maybe in material stuff.

 

[justanut]

Any indication as to what the commitments will be like and the expected pay/commission?

We can't just quit whatever job we have and just hop over can we? And i think you also mentioned its preferred that the applicant's single as there are some financial commitments. Does that mean we are expected to go without regular pay until we're ready or that we're expected to part-time to keep ourselves fed while going through the training?

It is a very tempting offer, but there is still a very real need (at least by me) to know what to expect and have some kind of forecast for the future. Being single doesn't mean commitment free. I still have a family to take care of.

Cheers

 

[avenue8]

Perhaps, my point might have been slightly lost. I'm not complaining about not being able to find information on Avenue 8, I'm complaining about the need to have to find that information in the first place.

If I, as a photographer, applied to Avenue 8 without providing details about myself, I'd be summarily rejected. Unless, maybe, I included in my application, "if you wish to know more about me, please google it."

I think not.

In any situation such as this, I think it's polite, respectful, and professional to care enough about any prospective applicants to take the time to tell them about about you. You're going to expect them to tell you a lot about themselves after all, that courtesy should be a two way affair.

I respect your view and I've also tot abt it and eventually decide not to provide a link. But from my point I see it as how much you are interested in this chance. I want people to do their research to prove their genuine interest in the position. In this time and age I personally feel that we are too spoon fed esp here in S'pore. We expect everything to be given to us as tho we are entitled to it. This is how I judge and filter applicants based on how true they are for the job. Like you said all they have to do is just goggle it.

 

[ConnorMcLeod]

This makes you a business owner more than a pro photographer.
Even if you are seen as a pro, it does not mean u r taking good photos and able to run the business.

TS has explained the sacrifices the candidates is expected to make. You may feel the conditions are not right for you. Complains do not make you happy. Look elsewhere. You'll be happier.

worst lah, those in their 40s no hope at all.. But wait.. if I dump in 100K, I would have easily set up a studio with : 2 sets of Nikon D3 - Lenses : 85mm f1.4/ 50mm F1.4 / 105mm VR Macro / 60mm Macro /70-200mm VR / 17-35mm /10-20mm Sigma / Optional : 14-24mm G Lens and the 24-70mm G Lens. (For Wedding Photography .. should be enough) + One set of Canon 1Ds MK III and 6 L Lens in the Pro Series.. this should take care of Agency Work yah..Also should be quite well equipped with Elinchrome Light Systems and covering quite a fair bit of necessary accessories...

So I think age should not be a problem lah, if you want to turn pro.. there are many ways I think and to I think this is discremination .. but of cause, it's your call after all on all those requirements you want...

 

[terrier08]

WOW!!!

I see that this age thingy is a very hot topic here....
Ok let me explain the situation here for the age limit.

We have had interns before who are above 30 and they can't seem to take instructions and coaching from younger fellow colleagues who are their senior in the office. I know this may just be a couple of bad apples in the basket but so far the median age that we prefer to train are those who are bet 23-29 yrs old as they already have what they want in mind and they'll work harder to make it out there.

Money is not the main aim to achieve here neither is it to have the best equipment in town. Its the kind of people that we are interested to train to represent as a professional photographer. The character and values of someone that makes a person no matter how rich or poor he maybe in material stuff.

O.K. Sounds reasonable. But if you try to advertise the way you did here in ST, I am very sure they are not going to buy all these. I am a business owner so I think it's important to look at candidates with the passion and quality, not just age... unless it's a young culture kind of thing you have in your studio..


I am speaking from a creative point of view coz I work with renowed photographers easily in their 50's and they are really good! Guess wat, they started late too.. well above 30 when they first came into Singapore!

 

[avenue8]

Thank you for seeing my point of view and understanding from a business point. But one also have to keep in mind that one can no longer spend 20 yrs to build up your name and reputation in this time and age when everything ard us is moving so fast.

As a business owner I'm sure you will want your product to prove its worth in its shortest possible time. I'm sure you will agree... And at 50 I want to travel the world shooting what I like and not taking orders from clients anymore... (just my point of view)

O.K. Sounds reasonable. But if you try to advertise the way you did here in ST, I am very sure they are not going to buy all these. I am a business owner so I think it's important to look at candidates with the passion and quality, not just age... unless it's a young culture kind of thing you have in your studio..


I am speaking from a creative point of view coz I work with renowed photographers easily in their 50's and they are really good! Guess wat, they started late too.. well above 30 when they first came into Singapore!

 

[Jed]

Any indication as to what the commitments will be like and the expected pay/commission?

We can't just quit whatever job we have and just hop over can we? And i think you also mentioned its preferred that the applicant's single as there are some financial commitments. Does that mean we are expected to go without regular pay until we're ready or that we're expected to part-time to keep ourselves fed while going through the training?

It is a very tempting offer, but there is still a very real need (at least by me) to know what to expect and have some kind of forecast for the future. Being single doesn't mean commitment free. I still have a family to take care of.

Cheers

Good luck finding out, the OP suggests Google I think.

 

[junniee]

i am interested

:bsmilie:

 

[tommon]

No offence but I think Ave 8 has made many unseen and unknown enemies even before they try anything. I think the starting thread looks suspicious and plainly a discrimination, almost like a racist / sexist remarks. In a Western nation, you will be brought to court. Our company did request that Muslims not to join our internship but our reasons are simple, we produce lots of Christian contents for many Christian organisationa and churchs. Thus under the religious harmony bill by the Singapore government, we do not wish that any parties be entangled in unneccessary legal or religious complications after all we are a business. What's your real intend?

I'm 41, my intern is 41, he has not had any expereince or skills but yet he interns with us for almost free accept for some allowances. His objective is to learn a new skill and hopefully help build the company. Ave 8 said they are lookimg for people who wants a photography job not a career, what kind of a photographers are you after, those who wants only the money and no passion? Seriously, I don't think you are here to serve or provide services, just cutting the customers throat with your artistic or creative edges. I chose to be a photographer and made it my career, does that make me a lousy candidate.

If you said you older interns don't take instrcution well, then maybe you people managemnet skills needs some work. I do believe the old Chinese saying that old ginger gives more bite. I may not be a major industry player here, but I think I could speak for all those "old gingers", we do bite.

Creativity and passion are nurtured, not taught in some classroom or course. Young people, please don't be so arrogant or fixed in your ways, success is not just measured by the size of the bank account but how you finish the race. I have seen too many sad and tragic endings that even the landfill in Pulau Semakau cannot contain. Humilty is the beginning of wisdom.

I really hope the moderators keep this kind of stuff in check.

Well that's my $2 worth on tis

 

[jesser]

No offence but I think Ave 8 has made many unseen and unknown enemies even before they try anything. I think the starting thread looks suspicious and plainly a discrimination, almost like a racist / sexist remarks. In a Western nation, you will be brought to court. Our company did request that Muslims not to join our internship but our reasons are simple, we produce lots of Christian contents for many Christian organisationa and churchs. Thus under the religious harmony bill by the Singapore government, we do not wish that any parties be entangled in unneccessary legal or religious complications after all we are a business. What's your real intend?

I'm 41, my intern is 41, he has not had any expereince or skills but yet he interns with us for almost free accept for some allowances. His objective is to learn a new skill and hopefully help build the company. Ave 8 said they are lookimg for people who wants a photography job not a career, what kind of a photographers are you after, those who wants only the money and no passion? Seriously, I don't think you are here to serve or provide services, just cutting the customers throat with your artistic or creative edges. I chose to be a photographer and made it my career, does that make me a lousy candidate.

If you said you older interns don't take instrcution well, then maybe you people managemnet skills needs some work. I do believe the old Chinese saying that old ginger gives more bite. I may not be a major industry player here, but I think I could speak for all those "old gingers", we do bite.

Creativity and passion are nurtured, not taught in some classroom or course. Young people, please don't be so arrogant or fixed in your ways, success is not just measured by the size of the bank account but how you finish the race. I have seen too many sad and tragic endings that even the landfill in Pulau Semakau cannot contain. Humilty is the beginning of wisdom.

I really hope the moderators keep this kind of stuff in check.

Well that's my $2 worth on tis

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:.......u had just said what i wanted.....

 

[wantunn]

Why do you see it as discrimination? Its profiling and setting characteristics that is required of the job. Its being specific. See it this way, let me give you an example. Your NICK is terrier08, mine is Benji77. Would I be right to say that we are both dogs?

Agreed.
Just to add, this ad is discriminatory according to MOM's guideline for job advertisements available here
in the article "Tripartite Guidelines on Non-Discriminatory Job Advertisements (2006)"

Of course, having said that, it's just a guideline which I assume is non-enforcable?

 

[avenue8]

Dear fellow readers.

There are reasons why we are looking for a certain age group of people. Yes I do agree that old gingers do bite as the directors of our company(who are also photographers) are well into their 40s and they have a wealth of experience and they do bite hard trust me! There are different places for different people to learn things and to reach their objective. I was just merely looking for a certain group of people, rather than to waste other people's time to come down and realise that they do not fit the bill. Am I wrong to make things more specific?

If one does one's research well enough, our rates are reasonable and affordable as compared to some other studios and its not cut throat if you are from the correct target audience. And we do not teach classroom style. We allow individuals to be creative as we all know that art should not be judged. All we do here is to correct your technical skills for you to be able to perform at your best and provide an income for people who have a passion for photography.

And to correct user tommon in the first thread I specifically said that people who want to make photography their CAREER NOT A JOB!!! Please I beg of you to read CAREFULLY!!!!
Your post will also unknowingly and unseenly make you look careless. The moderator should be looking into people who are out to destroy the good name of others here.

Just for all your information this thread will be closing on Saturday. I didn't know this will cause such as uproar here. I apologise for all the inconvenience caused but I've met a few people who I'm looking for already and appreciate all those who see my point here. Thanks guys!