High ISO issues


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And battle low shutter speeds at the same time?

In the end it's up to personal preference.

How, precisely, do you intend to overexpose by 1 to 2 stops other than by lowering your shutter speeds?

Let's see:

Let's say correct exposure is

ISO 1600 @ 1/125 @ f2.8 = overexposed two stops.

ISO 400 @ 1/125 @ f2.8 = correct exposure two stops down.
 

u both misunderstood...
how can he not knw...
he just implying by lowering iso..u will also be sacrificing shutter speed.
 

u both misunderstood...
how can he not knw...
he just implying by lowering iso..u will also be sacrificing shutter speed.

*facepalm*

><

Really, please people, this embarrassing. Think how exposure works and get back to me about what you just said.
 

u both misunderstood...

Read the last few posts again.

MontoyaSG suggests that to lower noise, you can shoot 1 to 2 stops overexposed.

I said, if you have the light levels to allow you to shoot 1 to 2 stops overexposed then you have the same light levels to shoot with an ISO setting 1 to 2 stops lower (with no reduction in shutter speed), which will give you better results than shooting with an ISO setting 1 to 2 stops higher and overexposing.

Lowering ISO I sacrifice shutter speed yes, but how exactly do you propose to shoot 1 to 2 stops overexposed without sacrificing shutter speed as well?

how can he not knw...

That, is a very good question.

Another very good question is how you think he can magically overexpose 1 to 2 stops without drawbacks elsewhere like the same lower shutter speeds he's warning against.

Incidentally I wouldn't shoot anything at 2 stops over because you're not going to be able to bring the tonality of the image back. And frankly 1 stop over you must be shooting RAW and you're still not going to have the full quality of your sensor although you can rescue maybe 95% of it back.
 

*facepalm*

><

Really, please people, this embarrassing. Think how exposure works and get back to me about what you just said.

tell me
 

Read the last few posts again.

MontoyaSG suggests that to lower noise, you can shoot 1 to 2 stops overexposed.

I said, if you have the light levels to allow you to shoot 1 to 2 stops overexposed then you have the same light levels to shoot with an ISO setting 1 to 2 stops lower (with no reduction in shutter speed), which will give you better results than shooting with an ISO setting 1 to 2 stops higher and overexposing.

Lowering ISO I sacrifice shutter speed yes, but how exactly do you propose to shoot 1 to 2 stops overexposed without sacrificing shutter speed as well?



That, is a very good question.

Another very good question is how you think he can magically overexpose 1 to 2 stops without drawbacks elsewhere like the same lower shutter speeds he's warning against.

Incidentally I wouldn't shoot anything at 2 stops over because you're not going to be able to bring the tonality of the image back. And frankly 1 stop over you must be shooting RAW and you're still not going to have the full quality of your sensor although you can rescue maybe 95% of it back.
1 to 2 stops is just what he suggested
u do not have to read into it too much, for A700,A850,A900 this 3 three model had quite a good headroom for highlight recovery in raw.

i do understand what u mean if using lower iso... but depend on circumstances, sometime u may need higher shutter speed of 1/200 and abv for action shot indoor.Hence the need for higher iso
 

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And battle low shutter speeds at the same time?

In the end it's up to personal preference.


shutter speeds wont be affected if you are already overexposing with a higher ISO , and bringing the ISO back down to a "correct" exposure bro.
 

i do understand what u mean if using lower iso... but depend on circumstances, sometime u may need higher shutter speed of 1/200 and abv for action shot indoor.Hence the need for higher iso

Please re-read posts 58 and 59.

The quibble doesn't have anything to do with why one does or doesn't need higher ISO sensitivities.
 

shutter speeds wont be affected if you are already overexposing with a higher ISO , and bringing the ISO back down to a "correct" exposure bro.

Thank you.
 

For those not familiar which what monta trying to explain.
he just implying overexposing the shot to alleviate the problem of noise in the dark/shadow region , if the highlight is to be concerned. u can always recover them back.
this is one of method for those who shoot regularly with the alpha dslr.
A correct exposure may not be necessary a good exposure in certain circumstances
 

For those not familiar which what monta trying to explain.
he just implying overexposing the shot to alleviate the problem of noise in the dark/shadow region , if the highlight is to be concerned. u can always recover them back.
this is one of method for those who shoot regularly with the alpha dslr.
A correct exposure may not be necessary a good exposure in certain circumstances

yes. that was what monta was saying.

however Jed replied to this by saying that he thinks its better to just use a correct exposure setting, which in this case, you would lower your ISO, and get a cleaner image.

which in case means you are lowering your ISO to bring back exposure to the correct levels. shutter speeds are not affected.
 

yes. that was what monta was saying.

however Jed replied to this by saying that he thinks its better to just use a correct exposure setting, which in this case, you would lower your ISO, and get a cleaner image.

which in case means you are lowering your ISO to bring back exposure to the correct levels. shutter speeds are not affected.

this what happen when u had 2 different people with different system with different shooting style.
theory versus hand-on experience
 

this what happen when u had 2 different people with different system with different shooting style.
theory versus hand-on experience

of course la.

everyone entitled to their own opinions, and their own experiences. sony's highlight recovery in raw is exceptional, hence we can do that.
 

As i mentioned earlier in other high iso threads shoot with 1 to 2 step overexposure & recover in PP. You'll end up with a 'cleaner' shot.

Boomz... Let me re-quote what i posted earlier. I specifically mentioned 1-2 'steps' which is misread by Jed as 'stops'. Anyway i do re-meter the scene when i raise the iso so shutter speed is sure to be faster for the same exposure level.

1 step = 1 click on scrollwheel
 

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For those not familiar which what monta trying to explain.
he just implying overexposing the shot to alleviate the problem of noise in the dark/shadow region , if the highlight is to be concerned. u can always recover them back.
this is one of method for those who shoot regularly with the alpha dslr.
A correct exposure may not be necessary a good exposure in certain circumstances

This is what i'm trying to put across. If the shot is metered @ 1/100 dropping down by 1 step to 1/80 will get you a better exposed image in the darker areas. Every little bit matters if the place is barely lit.

Just sharing my experience on shooting in low lighting conditions on the alpha system anyway.
 

When everything's sized down - noise grains become smaller and disappear.

If one regularly prints in huge sizes and requires your viewers to see them up close - ISO becomes important - but if you put 900x600 pixel photos online or in facebook... with an excuse that it's going to be vital for big printing and cropping for posterity's sake... try shooting in Small JPEGs - that would prolong your hard disk's life span... :sticktong

Well, most of us would realise that you don't print or crop all the photos except a select few, and the shots that aren't done for work or "tan jiak" purposes are shot for ourselves - and thinking that you need to shoot in full sizes would be quite costly in storage terms, and of course seeing them in 100% magnification essentially makes you see your photos as if they were printed in A0+ and bigger, placed at newspaper reading distance - of course, you can see noise...

But most of the time - for me when I see stuff in 100%, I'm reminded that I sucked at photography and there's still much too learn: unintended motion blur/OOF/focusing errors/ undesired DOF too - that happens for me at least... :confused::embrass:



In discussion of overexposing slightly as a High ISO work around method - I think it's important to consider that - in the process of getting a cleaner image - is it worth setting and potentially messing up your DOF or your shutter speeds to get that one extra stop of light to press the noise down?

Is a cleaner shot more important or taking a right photo more important?

Yes - the A700/850/900 indeed has a lot of highlight headroom - in the region of around 1 stop as compared to most brands out there because the sensor's tuned in that way to favor the highlights - I can pull down the exposure settings in a raw converter and have slightly lesser noise because when I took that shot earlier, more some of the intended shadow regions of my photo are now in the highlight regions, which has less visible noise. Then in raw processing, I pull them back down into the shadow regions.

To do that, for the same ISO setting - I can just increase my aperture or decrease my Shutter speed for overexposure... then pull down the exposure in Raw processing.

But that turns out that in practical application and from my experience - for me at least - is that - ISO ratings and noise are of the last concerns for me, and I'd usually increase my ISO when necessary because of two things: increasing DOF to include more stuff and also speeding up my shutter speed to Freeze Motion - both of them reduces the amount of light going into my camera.

I'd go for a little of that pixel inconvenience to get the shot that I need, then process out the grain and noise when necessary, and still get good prints after that.

To me, a well executed shot is more important than a clean shot.

That's my 2 cents' thought though. :angel:


As an after thought, even though it can be argued that some Sony DSLR models aren't good high ISO performers as compared to other brands, we are living in high ISO paradise if we compared what we have to the grain size we get from film. So yeah, I'm thankful, and only good things would come in the future yeah... So don't worry, be happy and shoot more. :sweatsm:
 

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When everything's sized down - noise grains become smaller and disappear.

If one regularly prints in huge sizes and requires your viewers to see them up close - ISO becomes important - but if you put 900x600 pixel photos online or in facebook... with an excuse that it's going to be vital for big printing and cropping for posterity's sake... try shooting in Small JPEGs - that would prolong your hard disk's life span... :sticktong

Well, most of us would realise that you don't print or crop all the photos except a select few, and the shots that aren't done for work or "tan jiak" purposes are shot for ourselves - and thinking that you need to shoot in full sizes would be quite costly in storage terms, and of course seeing them in 100% magnification essentially makes you see your photos as if they were printed in A0+ and bigger, placed at newspaper reading distance - of course, you can see noise...

But most of the time - for me when I see stuff in 100%, I'm reminded that I sucked at photography and there's still much too learn: unintended motion blur/OOF/focusing errors/ undesired DOF too - that happens for me at least... :confused::embrass:



In discussion of overexposing slightly as a High ISO work around method - I think it's important to consider that - in the process of getting a cleaner image - is it worth setting and potentially messing up your DOF or your shutter speeds to get that one extra stop of light to press the noise down?

Is a cleaner shot more important or taking a right photo more important?

Yes - the A700/850/900 indeed has a lot of highlight headroom - in the region of around 1 stop as compared to most brands out there because the sensor's tuned in that way to favor the highlights - I can pull down the exposure settings in a raw converter and have slightly lesser noise because when I took that shot earlier, more some of the intended shadow regions of my photo are now in the highlight regions, which has less visible noise. Then in raw processing, I pull them back down into the shadow regions.

To do that, for the same ISO setting - I can just increase my aperture or decrease my Shutter speed for overexposure... then pull down the exposure in Raw processing.

But that turns out that in practical application and from my experience - for me at least - is that - ISO ratings and noise are of the last concerns for me, and I'd usually increase my ISO when necessary because of two things: increasing DOF to include more stuff and also speeding up my shutter speed to Freeze Motion - both of them reduces the amount of light going into my camera.

I'd go for a little of that pixel inconvenience to get the shot that I need, then process out the grain and noise when necessary, and still get good prints after that.

To me, a well executed shot is more important than a clean shot.

That's my 2 cents' thought though. :angel:


As an after thought, even though it can be argued that some Sony DSLR models aren't good high ISO performers as compared to other brands, we are living in high ISO paradise if we compared what we have to the grain size we get from film. So yeah, I'm thankful, and only good things would come in the future yeah... So don't worry, be happy and shoot more. :sweatsm:

QFT. getting the right shot is more important than trying to get a less noisy shot.
 

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