Help with Digital Backs

[merkava74]

Hi,

My father owns a Hasselblad 205FCC.

I would like to get him a digital back as a present, but as I am clueless about MF cameras, I would really appreciate some help with recommendations. The back should come with preview screen. Price range would be a great help too!

Thanks in advance!

 

[nightwolf75]

http://www.hasselbladusa.com/products/digital-backs/cfv-39.aspx the indicative price on ebay is here.

but you need to mod the cam to use some lenses, which is beyond me.... you need to ask singscott about this.

 

[merkava74]

Hi thanks for the reply.

Wow, that back costs as much as getting a H3 itself!

I read a bit more and found other brands like Kodak, Leaf, Imacon. They are all in the same region. Are there cheaper alternatives? Or is this the way to go...

 

[nightwolf75]

when it comes to digital backs, you are basically down to these few. i think kodak no longer manufactures backs. so there is an issue of repairs. leaf and aptus, and phase one backs should have something for your dad's hassy. probably need to get an adapter. but yah... PM singscott. he knows best on hassy.

 

[merkava74]

Thanks bro!

 

[foxtwo]

you can call seng fai from Ruby Imaging for phase one backs.

http://www.facebook.com/RubyImaging

received email from phase one last month.
"Pre owned and refurbished P65+, P45+ P40+ and P30+ digital backs are available with 1 year Phase One
warranty with prices starting from S$14,600 (inclusive of GST)."

you might have to pay extra for hasselblad adapter though, don't know how much.


I think a complete present should be a DB, a 15" macbook pro, and a set of studio flash.

 

[foxtwo]

What does your dad like to shoot?

Leaf colours is more neutral, good for product photography in capturing true tones.

Phase one colours is more punchy, good for everything else.

No experience with Hasselblad DBs.

This is all straight from the DB, unprocessed.

 

[singscott]

I flattered that I been ask to answer this. The good new is Hasselblad 205 FCC like the Hasselblad 500 series cameras have many digital backs to choose from. Depending on your budget. For example you can get a cheap second hand back with 16 mega pixels back with preview from Leaf, Phase One, Hasselblad/Imacon, Kodak and other from USD$5K. So you tell how much you willing to spend then I can farther recommend and tell you what extra accessory you might need. But one that look good on a Hasselblad V cameras is the Hasselblad 16 mega pixels CFV backs.

 

[merkava74]

Thanks all!

My budget is low, but I understand that quality = higher price.

I don't mean to be spoon-fed, but can singscott or any hassy users here list down the models from Lead, Phase One etc for me to research further? Thanks.

 

[singscott]

You need to tell us how much you willing to spend. Brand new or second hand. There just too many to list here. May be here some key brands and their main models for you to research on. Leaf (Aptus, Valeo), Kodak (DCS Pro 645), Phase One (P65+ or P(some number too many models here) with + or no +), Hasselblad (CFV 16, CFV 39, CF39(there many model here as well) as well as old imacon models), Sinar (M, eMotion) and alot more.

 

[ghoonk]

singscott - any idea what a used CFV16 would go for in Singapore?

 

[baschia]

Hi!

I'm also interested in a DB for my 500C/M. Are there decent used ones for 3-4K? Or should we wait for the new generation of backs to become a little older and available for used sale?

I love the dynamic range of film, and am worried that the old DBs that might be available won't be able to come close (like the sensors that are used for a lot of the lower grade prosumer DSLRs).

What are your thoughts guys, as people who have used DBs?

Thanks!

Sebastian

 

[ghoonk]

I just picked up a Mamiya AFD II with Aptus 65S MFDB. That back is over 6 years old today (I think), and when it comes to color gradations, resolution, it beats the daylights out of a D3x in good light. But I would try to shoot this at ISO400 max, and this is where DSLRs come into play - more versatile. Don't expect high fps when shooting, and these backs take time to fire up (the 65S takes around 8 to 10 seconds to fire up).

So to answer your question, no - MFDBs can hold their own against top end DLSRs today, and better in fact. Try 16 bits per channel instead of 14-bits per channel (D3s, D3x), and most consumer DSLRs only do 12-bits per channel.

Go check out the CFV-16 - for an old back, even at just 16MP, it still outperforms many FF DSLRs if you use the right lenses (CFi or FE). I spoke to some experience pros here and dealers, and the advice has been to not waste my money on an MFDB since the older lenses were designed for film and do not have the resolving power to maximize on an MFDB. I've been looking for a decent CFV-16 for the sheer convenience of shooting digital on a great body, but after shooting with the mamiya, I have realized that it's tough to achieve high sharpness (as compared to an AF system), so that kinda misses the point of having that many pixels if IQ is compromised by human imprecision.

 

[sprewell]

I used to own a simple Leaf Valeo 11mp (8 years old???) digital back with the Mamiya AFD.

I put the resulting image side by side to a 5D2 image and all I could do was shake head at the 5D2 image.

Am also in the midst of getting a MFDB as well. Prices are going down steadily.

 

[nightwolf75]

Hi!

I'm also interested in a DB for my 500C/M. Are there decent used ones for 3-4K? Or should we wait for the new generation of backs to become a little older and available for used sale?

I love the dynamic range of film, and am worried that the old DBs that might be available won't be able to come close (like the sensors that are used for a lot of the lower grade prosumer DSLRs).

What are your thoughts guys, as people who have used DBs?

Thanks!

Sebastian

on ebay now, you probably need to set aside at least USD5K for a decent working back for your hassy. it might be a good time to look ard for offers cos the exchange rates is in our favour now.

as for the advantages of a DB... i think i got nothing further to add to ghook and sprewell's comments. if you can take some patience to re-learn some shooting techniques for MF and learn to slow down in shooting, a DB will easily kick butt compared to DSLRs. i'm not saying that DSLRs are useless against DBs. you will probably end up having both at home.

have fun finding!

 

[baschia]

Thank You very much for your replies! It's impressive to hear such unanimous positive feedback on the old DBs. I love the MF and have gotten quite good at manual focussing, so getting a DB is the next step for me (after 2 film backs, and a polaback).

Do you guys think eBay is the best place to look, or are there other sites or even local shops that sell them?

Best,

Sebastian

 

[ghoonk]

I've been looking at eBay. CFV-39 prices are still around USD15k, while CFV-16s in good condition are hard to come by. There's one going for around USD5k, but there's something wrong with the firmware, and I'd stay away from it. Check Phase One - they have some older V-mount backs, but they are hard to come by

to be honest, given the amount of money you're going to be spending, and since you (or your dad) and I will be walking down the same path (ie. trying to get digital to work on an old hassy), here's the advice I got - don't waste that money since it's not going to be a fun experience.

On film, you get away with images that aren't pin sharp, but on an MFDB (which I have learned to much dismay), you need damn good focusing if you want great images (unless you're shooting landscapes, in which case you just set for hyperfocal distance).

Which is how I ended up spending the money meant for a MFDB for my 500CM on an AFD II with a Leaf Aptus 65S (28MP back, 16-bits/channel, ISO50-800), and actually NOT regretted it. In fact, I just ordered a film back for my AFD II.

I would not recommend getting a H-series back (tethered operation), but to consider getting a P-series back instead. We're talking easily SGD9-12k for a back. See http://www.digitaltransitions.com/showNews.php?id=30 . They are based in the US and are official Phase One distributors with a good reputation. They also have a couple of V-backs that would outperform the CFV-39 any given day of the week, for less than the $15,000 eBayers are asking for.

 

[madabouthass]

A brand new H4D31 with HC 2.8,80mm lens complete is $17,000 before tax.
Why give a second hand DB for a present ( that may not work properly) for a few thousand less.
Even a new Leaf or Phase Camera kit is priced around there abouts.
I think the new MFDBs are all good buys nowadays.
Thats why the second hand ones have gone down in price.
The olderbacks have noise problems and were only good for in studio with IS0 50, 100.
The new ones have better autofocus and usable ISO 1600 so can do street photography .
Ken Seet uses H4D50 , H3D39 for commercial and H4D40 for lifestyle.
He switched from Phase P45.

 

[baschia]

Hi Guys!

Thanks again for the feedback and advice! I think I'll start and rent a back and try it out myself.

Cheers

Sebastian