Help needed - Clients refused to pay for service rendered

[zaren]

hmmm....they must be happy enough with the PDF coffee table book you sent them. next time send your clients a more low res version.

on a more serious note...

if you want to fight the case, small claims tribunal will be your best bet. no need to spend extra $$$ on a lawyer, just produce all the evidence of $500 deposit paid, emails/sms of clients' request to change meeting times and dates, client's offer to pay $1k first, hi-res DVD of your completed and edited work etc etc. you should have a good chance of claiming the balance payment of your money. although there is no signed contract here, there is ample evidence of offer and acceptance and an implied contract.

 

[godzilla60]

Actually, this should be in the Photo Biz...but anyhow...the Client has a grip on TS pressure point and a deadly one.

As stated in the post...they are " freelancers " which in legal terms...they are " not professional ". So when you file a claim in the small claims tribunal, can't even provide a business regn nos. the case will be thrown out. So it's a no case scenario.

Many freelancers falls into the pit of not registering themself. Not knowing that once registered, your name/call card, invoice, receipt quotation etc will bear your biz regn nos. and it speak loudly...I mean business.

actually business registration is not a pre-requisite for SCT claims.

 

[godzilla60]

hmmm....they must be happy enough with the PDF coffee table book you sent them. next time send your clients a more low res version.

on a more serious note...

if you want to fight the case, small claims tribunal will be your best bet. no need to spend extra $$$ on a lawyer, just produce all the evidence of $500 deposit paid, emails/sms of clients' request to change meeting times and dates, client's offer to pay $1k first, hi-res DVD of your completed and edited work etc etc. you should have a good chance of claiming the balance payment of your money. although there is no signed contract here, there is ample evidence of offer and acceptance and an implied contract.

they might even go to a printer to print using the PDF u sent. rather than sending a low-res one, probably watermark everypage with a "DRAFT". maybe it will really deter them from printing.

i agree with zaren but maybe just try sending a letter of demand first, especially from a lawyer. u'll be surprised how many ppl will actually sit up and take notice when a lawyer's letter comes....:sweat:

 

[cabbySHE]

actually business registration is not a pre-requisite for SCT claims.

Is that to say...John owes Jenson $50/= did not pay up and Jenson can file a claim against John at the SCT ? I am not too sure, haven't file any claim for many years.

 

[TheChef]

Even if there is no contractual agreement, verbal agreement still counts. Go to SCT for advice.

 

[Ian]

hmmm....they must be happy enough with the PDF coffee table book you sent them. next time send your clients a more low res version.

on a more serious note...

if you want to fight the case, small claims tribunal will be your best bet. no need to spend extra $$$ on a lawyer, just produce all the evidence of $500 deposit paid, emails/sms of clients' request to change meeting times and dates, client's offer to pay $1k first, hi-res DVD of your completed and edited work etc etc. you should have a good chance of claiming the balance payment of your money. although there is no signed contract here, there is ample evidence of offer and acceptance and an implied contract.

I completely agree. As email and faxes are now legally binding evidence in most jurisdictions world wide you've got the client by the Ballz. I'm not sure of the legality of SMS messages however, but if you have those it will be useful.

Learn from the proceedings and always insist on a legally watertight contract being signed before going ahead with any job, either free or paid. Futhermore always get at least the total cost of production of the shoot up front or paid on the day, that includes all costs to you such as printing, time spent on albums, transport costs and a liveable basic hourly rate. If you are going to accept payment on delivery just make sure that payment is pure profit so if it's not forthcoming you don't wind up in the red from the shoot.

 

[godzilla60]

Is that to say...John owes Jenson $50/= did not pay up and Jenson can file a claim against John at the SCT ? I am not too sure, haven't file any claim for many years.

u can check out the details here: http://app.subcourts.gov.sg/sct/page.aspx?pageid=8617

the jurisdiction of the SCT can be found in the link above.

 

[godzilla60]

I completely agree. As email and faxes are now legally binding evidence in most jurisdictions world wide you've got the client by the Ballz. I'm not sure of the legality of SMS messages however, but if you have those it will be useful.

Learn from the proceedings and always insist on a legally watertight contract being signed before going ahead with any job, either free or paid. Futhermore always get at least the total cost of production of the shoot up front or paid on the day, that includes all costs to you such as printing, time spent on albums, transport costs and a liveable basic hourly rate. If you are going to accept payment on delivery just make sure that payment is pure profit so if it's not forthcoming you don't wind up in the red from the shoot.

good advice:thumbsup:

 

[Burnings]

Since the amount is $1800, you should go small claim first to save on legal cost. The fact that the client remitted money to you = acceptance of your service. You definitely have a strong case.

Contract can be valid whether written or verbal and even action of acceptance.

It is not worth to get lawyer in your case because the dispute amount is too small to justify for one.

 

[dragos]

next time...try to get full payment on the day of shoot..

 

[acpical]

next time...try to get full payment on the day of shoot..

If I am a client, no way I am paying the full amount on the AD. This amount would include the printed pictures, album etc.

Why should I pay if these are not delivered? And what if they are delivered, but sub-standard like what happened to the British couple recently?

Pro-rated payment, yes. But not full payment.

 

[Reflection]

If I am a client, no way I am paying the full amount on the AD. This amount would include the printed pictures, album etc.

Why should I pay if these are not delivered? And what if they are delivered, but sub-standard like what happened to the British couple recently?

Pro-rated payment, yes. But not full payment.

Would you hire someone with the expectation that he/she might deliver sub-standard work?

 

[GavinTing]

Uhm, as the others here have mentioned, just go to SCT. It's like 30 odd dollars to file a claim? If the client has paid you the deposit and you have done the service, there is clearly an intention to create legal relations. This added with other factors such as the verbal agreement, already constitutes a legally binding contract, with or without black and white signatures.

 

[clatter8075]

If I am a client, no way I am paying the full amount on the AD. This amount would include the printed pictures, album etc.

Why should I pay if these are not delivered? And what if they are delivered, but sub-standard like what happened to the British couple recently?

Pro-rated payment, yes. But not full payment.

I shoot for fun. But still, the same logic that applies to other businesses here. If the client isn't comfortable doing business with me (not confident of my ability to deliver), I won't be doing any business with him. Trust is essential for any kind of deal.

 

[Cursor]

My take, just sent them a registered official letter or by dispatch to the couple, or drop in to their place with a official letter and just explain to them, If they are not going to pay the remaining amount by 1 month, the deal will be consider closed, and you will just treat the case as "bad debt". Copyrights of the hard and softcopy of photos taken during the event will belong to the photographer, photographer had the right to delete/destory all the photos.
If they allow you to destory the photos, mean they don't treasure that at all. Just move on, you will not likely to get anything from them.

 

[kkvolution]

I completely agree. As email and faxes are now legally binding evidence in most jurisdictions world wide you've got the client by the Ballz. I'm not sure of the legality of SMS messages however, but if you have those it will be useful.

Learn from the proceedings and always insist on a legally watertight contract being signed before going ahead with any job, either free or paid. Futhermore always get at least the total cost of production of the shoot up front or paid on the day, that includes all costs to you such as printing, time spent on albums, transport costs and a liveable basic hourly rate. If you are going to accept payment on delivery just make sure that payment is pure profit so if it's not forthcoming you don't wind up in the red from the shoot.

I thought I heard before a few years ago, SMS can be considered as a court evidence too. However, you need to check it out if it is true. >>> I mean to the thread starter.

 

[earthling82]

ever tried going to their house and ask for clarification on the spot?

Sometime the parents will give the money ....

 

[dingaroo]

By accepting to transfer funds, that act already validates that the other party has entered into a contract.

That was the yardstick when I studied law 20 years ago. Not sure about now. No harm to givt SCT a try.

Hope you are still able to show the statement indicating transfer of funds by the other party.


DiNgArOo

 

[acpical]

Would you hire someone with the expectation that he/she might deliver sub-standard work?

Precisely because I expect a decent standard, that I should not pay the remainder for sub-standard work.

I shoot for fun. But still, the same logic that applies to other businesses here. If the client isn't comfortable doing business with me (not confident of my ability to deliver), I won't be doing any business with him. Trust is essential for any kind of deal.

It's easy to talk about trust being essential for any kind of deal. But what you wrote indicates that trust should only flow one way: the customer must trust you, but you cannot trust the customer.

Many can afford to pay the $1k - $2k, although that may not apply in TS case. But the AD is a once in a lifetime event. If the photog screws up, it is not the monetary loss but the permanent loss of memories that cannot be replicated.

Part payment on AD is fair. In fact, to whom this arrangement is skewed towards can be varied by the part payment.

 

[garagez]

just trash the images and move on....

yeap.... move on ,