HDR image of a block of flats

[daniel-sg]

Seriously. We can tell him what is wrong techinically, rather than offer him words like 'disgusting', 'no effort at all'. We can encourage him to go out and find a better spot without condescending sacarsm.

True, his initial response to some of the critique might not have been the most prudent, but following which,we seemed to have crossed the line between photo and photographer seems too willingly and eagerly. Now we have condolences as well as comments about his age/maturity? I see people laughing at his initial post without offering any critique of photographic value.

Not every comment is a critique.
If you really must, there are much better ways to be blunt.

 

[sinned79]

maybe schools these days teach school children too chim words that TS didn't know the basic meaning of criticism.

crit·i·cism
–noun
1.
the act of passing judgment as to the merits of anything.
2.
the act of passing severe judgment; censure; faultfinding.
3.
the act or art of analyzing and evaluating or judging the quality of a literary or artistic work, musical performance, art exhibit, dramatic production, etc.
4.
a critical comment, article, or essay; critique.
5.
any of various methods of studying texts or documents for the purpose of dating or reconstructing them, evaluating their authenticity, analyzing their content or style, etc.: historical criticism; literary criticism.
6.
investigation of the text, origin, etc., of literary documents, esp. Biblical ones: textual criticism.

 

[night86mare]

Seriously. We can tell him what is wrong techinically, rather than offer him words like 'disgusting', 'no effort at all'. We can encourage him to go out and find a better spot without condescending sacarsm.

True, his initial response to some of the critique might not have been the most prudent, but following which,we seemed to have crossed the line between photo and photographer seems too willingly and eagerly. Now we have condolences as well as comments about his age/maturity? I see people laughing at his initial post without offering any critique of photographic value.

Not every comment is a critique.
If you really must, there are much better ways to be blunt.

frankly speaking, i would have taken the time to drop a few lines or two.

but after reading through the initial response and the amount of defensiveness, and with the knowledge of his past track record, i don't think it's worth my effort.

well, at the very least, we can take comfort in the fact that he will eventually learn, one way or another.

 

[daredevil123]

Seriously. We can tell him what is wrong techinically, rather than offer him words like 'disgusting', 'no effort at all'. We can encourage him to go out and find a better spot without condescending sacarsm.

True, his initial response to some of the critique might not have been the most prudent, but following which,we seemed to have crossed the line between photo and photographer seems too willingly and eagerly. Now we have condolences as well as comments about his age/maturity? I see people laughing at his initial post without offering any critique of photographic value.

Not every comment is a critique.
If you really must, there are much better ways to be blunt.

You should really read all his past posts. Then come back here and post before mouthing off... :bsmilie::bsmilie:

It is unwise to say what you have just said if you do not understand the context. :bsmilie::bsmilie:

And after reading all his past posts... I encourage you to meet up with him, encourage him and guide him in photography. And good luck... you will need lots of it.

 

[daniel-sg]

You should really read all his past posts. Then come back here and post before mouthing off... :bsmilie::bsmilie:

It is unwise to say what you have just said if you do not understand the context. :bsmilie::bsmilie:

And after reading all his past posts... I encourage you to meet up with him, encourage him and guide him in photography. And good luck... you will need lots of it.

@night86mare: I understand where you are coming from, and I too hope he does learn eventually.

@daredevil123: How much wiser is it to assume that I have not done so before 'mouting off' yourself?

I never condoned his attitude nor said that we should meet up with him, encourage him or hold his hand.

I am just saying that some criticisms in this thread are valid, while a handful of others are worse than the photo itself.

I too agree that he could do with less stubborness and listen more to those who are obviously more experienced than him, such as yourself.

However, it is precisely because people seem to think the context justifies what in my opnion are, improper criticisms and personal attacks, that I made the post where I usually would have kept quiet.

 

[daredevil123]

@night86mare: I understand where you are coming from, and I too hope he does learn eventually.

@daredevil123: How much wiser is it to assume that I have not done so before 'mouting off' yourself?

I never condoned his attitude nor said that we should meet up with him, encourage him or hold his hand.

I am just saying that some criticisms in this thread are valid, while a handful of others are worse than the photo itself.

I too agree that he could do with less stubborness and listen more to those who are obviously more experienced than him, such as yourself.

However, it is precisely because people seem to think the context justifies what in my opnion are, improper criticisms and personal attacks, that I made the post where I usually would have kept quiet.

I am not more experienced than him. I am not a seasoned photographer. And I don't own L lens and I shoot with kit lens once in a while.

And the "personal attacks" you mentioned, most of them are truths and facts. Whats wrong with being honest and saying the truth. Isn't this what critique corner is all about. If these comments (nice or not, harsh or soft, polite or inpolite) bring about a positive change in the persons skills or attitude to photography, isn't that what this section is about? Isn't that proper? Different people hear differently. Some needs the delivery to be soft, some need it hard. Everyone here tried being 'nice' and 'proper' and it didn't work. Time to bring up the heat. Seriously, if people here don't care and have no passion, no one will bother to even post here.

I, for one, do not believe in sugar coated critiques. Just like how I learnt very quickly from harsher words in the past, when I see the need, I will give harsher words to people asking for critiques. If need everything to be sugar coated, then don't ask for critiques, ask for praises. Which I gave too. LOL... but you know how that turned out.

And btw, it would be nice if you can define what is proper and what is not. so we know what your yardstick is.

 

[daniel-sg]

I am not disputing the truth of some comments.

I'm not for sugar coated critiques especially if they turn out to be lies. (e.g. your photo is awesome)

That being said i'm also not for critiques that lose their objectivity. (e.g. spending more time blasting the photographer than telling him whats wrong with the photo. Nitpicking his character/comments rather than his pixels.)

Its not entirely about how its coated, but what is being coated. A blunt attack on his photography without analytical value isn't any better than a sugar coated praise.

My initial post might have been strong worded because that is how i felt when seeing those comments. In the end, i'm no moral police either. I have no right to tell people how to respond, only try to make people see my point.

I think this thread is way past expiry, on hindsight, i shouldn't have patronized it. Sorry if i caused any ill feelings, in the end we all have our different standards.

 

[daredevil123]

I am not disputing the truth of some comments.

I'm not for sugar coated critiques especially if they turn out to be lies. (e.g. your photo is awesome)

That being said i'm also not for critiques that lose their objectivity. (e.g. spending more time blasting the photographer than telling him whats wrong with the photo. Nitpicking his character/comments rather than his pixels.)

Its not entirely about how its coated, but what is being coated. A blunt attack on his photography without analytical value isn't any better than a sugar coated praise.

My initial post might have been strong worded because that is how i felt when seeing those comments. In the end, i'm no moral police either. I have no right to tell people how to respond, only try to make people see my point.

I think this thread is way past expiry, on hindsight, i shouldn't have patronized it. Sorry if i caused any ill feelings, in the end we all have our different standards.

no offence taken. Just stating what I feel too.

Thing is, when the problem is the attitude of the photographer, the only way is to blast the photographer. In this case, the problem is not in the picture, but in the attitude of the photographer. Not all advise or action here has to analyze the picture posted to be effective. If the inherent problem is in the attitude of the photographer, any comments or criticisms that can initiate a thinking process in the positive direction will help the person. May not have to be totally related to his picture. We all need to be scolded and slapped once in a while.

There are different ways to educate or advise someone. Some may not be pleasant, but doesn't mean they do not work. Just look at how they train us in SAF. Definitely not pleasant. But without that force of stress, how would our soldiers react in ultra stressful situations during war time?

 

[allenleonhart]

if one is a "seasoned photographer" coming from "good old film age", i would expect some level of quality. critique corner is a place where we seek to learn from others. when i post here, i sometimes dun even get replies. TS got his replies, and decides to shoot back with excuses.

perhaps if TS would just stop whining, and take his camera and shoot with all the critiques in his mind, and droppign that "lao jiao" attitude, he would had improved long ago.

 

[Kit]

Do kids now complain about the manner their teachers speak to them?

 

[daredevil123]

Do kids now complain about the manner their teachers speak to them?

yes they do... so I've heard from some teacher friends.

some will challenge the teachers outright.

and most of them cannot take criticisms.

Singaporeans are getting too fragile...

 

[allenleonhart]

Do kids now complain about the manner their teachers speak to them?

if they are unreasonable, yes.

harsh and constructive criticisms, does not equate to bad, wrong, or unreasonable comments.

if teacher himself is teaching wrong things, or giving unreasonable comments... i think its fair for the kids to speak up.

but in this case, so far i see most comments have been constructive.

the method, of the kid making his opinion is also another skill all together

 

[laser434]

Hi, I've been following this thread for quite some time, and I find it pretty amusing that TS is behaving this way.
Reading some of the posts by him, its safe for me to assume that he's just a secondary school kid. The thing amusing is that how could he talk about the good old firm days. How old was he then? So funny :bsmilie::bsmilie::bsmilie::bsmilie:

I've also follow him in some other threads and he claimed that he have good strong arms and he won't need a tripod at all. And when he took some bad shots he blamed it on flu, anitibiotics and all kind of funny reason.

Kids these days just couldn't simply take critics. When we comment how bad their work are, they find all kinds of excuses and blame it on themselves and its not their fault at all in the end of the day. Its time to pull them out of self delusion and grow up in the open world.

P.S. I'm still a photographer learning and do take note that I'm not commenting on his photography skills, just the behaviour of TS in this forum. I do apologize if I've offended anyone

 

[uranium2k]

:bsmilie:

Just dropping in to say I'm very amused by this thread. Very entertaining... :sweatsm:

 

[nitewalk]

I think all along also got kids like that bah. Just that perhaps this kid is extreme case.

 

[Irvine]

well, from wad i see, he is being too prideful to listen to others' advice. let's see how he will survive thru army in future provided that he doesnt correct himself :bsmilie:

 

[kwttan]

well, from wad i see, he is being too prideful to listen to others' advice. let's see how he will survive thru army in future provided that he doesnt correct himself :bsmilie:

His platoon mates will love him, bcos he will do all the weekend duties. :bsmilie:

 

[night86mare]

Do kids now complain about the manner their teachers speak to them?

erm, i hope clubsnap has not degenerated to the point where members put on airs and self-proclaim to be teachers.

we are all still learning, photography is a lifelong process.

there are people who say this, but don't walk the talk.

i do not agree with ts attitude, but there is no need to happily raise one's self to the level of "teacher" and then adopt a top-down attitude. if ts is immature, there is no need to sink to his level and make yourself look uglier/arrogant by making such statements.

critique corner is not for self-proclaimed teachers to educate students per se. it says "post your image in here to get serious and honest feedback from fellow photographers. if you have conducted some sort of outing and people feel they have benefited, fine and dandy... you can also give your comments in threads on the image, and respond accordingly based on behaviour of the poster, but there is really no need to force a "i'm holier than thou, listen to me" on others. or are we now willing to get ahead of ourselves so happily?

please refrain from adopting such an attitude; firstly, no teacher in school who tells the student "you must respect me because i'm a teacher" will ever succeed; secondly, respect is earned, not demanded.

cheers.

 

[sinned79]

i think we can close this thread now.

 

[quizesilver]

yes they do... so I've heard from some teacher friends.

some will challenge the teachers outright.

and most of them cannot take criticisms.

Singaporeans are getting too fragile...

dun talk about kid...
even soldier are doing that too...