Hasselblad User Group
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Hi guys!
Wanting to join the hasselblad family. Just starting out, which camera would be recommended for a beginner? I see a lot of 500c/m cameras floating around for about 1300(worth?)? Are there any hasseys with auto metering? Or some form of light metering? What a better choices to the 500c/m if money wasn't a problem? Or rather, what is the next few camera down the line after the 500 c/m? Where to buy hassey accessories in singapore? Are there still mint old, hasseys for sale?
haha thanks! sorry for the many qn.s! very keen
Wanting to join the hasselblad family. Just starting out, which camera would be recommended for a beginner? I see a lot of 500c/m cameras floating around for about 1300(worth?)? Are there any hasseys with auto metering? Or some form of light metering? What a better choices to the 500c/m if money wasn't a problem? Or rather, what is the next few camera down the line after the 500 c/m? Where to buy hassey accessories in singapore? Are there still mint old, hasseys for sale?
haha thanks! sorry for the many qn.s! very keen
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zlimmer
New Member
The 500 series is very retro . Cheap but strictly for film and has its many problems .
Great for hanging over the neck and looking cool - thats it .
Focus takes mastering and you still will get only 8 in focus shots out of 12 in a roll that it allows .
The last version was the best - The 503CW with CWwinder and PME finder ( metering available) because it crosses over from film to digital more easily .
Autofocus and digital is the way to go - buy a H3DII 31 for $23,800 before Gst.
Look for TK foto , Gopes foto , MS color , Fotografix marketing .
Even David from P&G Adelphi.
Focusing 500 or 200 series is the same; the lenses are manual. It's a combination of the screen brightness and your eyesight.
Why do you say 500 has many problems? Why do you say 500 is strictly for film? Why do you say 503 is good for digital compared to 500? They all take the same digital back; the PME finder is usable on all 500's, the winder is not needed for digital, and all the extra features of the 503 (eg TTL) don't work on digital anyway.
If you want to spend enough money to buy a car, then the latest MF digitals are surely good to acquire. But if you have just a few thousand $$, MF film is definitely the way to go!
Why do you say 500 has many problems? Why do you say 500 is strictly for film? Why do you say 503 is good for digital compared to 500? They all take the same digital back; the PME finder is usable on all 500's, the winder is not needed for digital, and all the extra features of the 503 (eg TTL) don't work on digital anyway.
If you want to spend enough money to buy a car, then the latest MF digitals are surely good to acquire. But if you have just a few thousand $$, MF film is definitely the way to go!
The 500 series is very retro . Cheap but strictly for film and has its many problems .
Great for hanging over the neck and looking cool - thats it .
Focus takes mastering and you still will get only 8 in focus shots out of 12 in a roll that it allows .
The last version was the best - The 503CW with CWwinder and PME finder ( metering available) because it crosses over from film to digital more easily .
Autofocus and digital is the way to go - buy a H3DII 31 for $23,800 before Gst.
Look for TK foto , Gopes foto , MS color , Fotografix marketing .
Even David from P&G Adelphi.
The 500 series is very retro . Cheap but strictly for film and has its many problems .
Great for hanging over the neck and looking cool - thats it .
Focus takes mastering and you still will get only 8 in focus shots out of 12 in a roll that it allows .
The last version was the best - The 503CW with CWwinder and PME finder ( metering available) because it crosses over from film to digital more easily .
Autofocus and digital is the way to go - buy a H3DII 31 for $23,800 before Gst.
Look for TK foto , Gopes foto , MS color , Fotografix marketing .
Even David from P&G Adelphi.
The last version is the best because the parts are in newer condition. Aside from that believe from our everyday use, there ins't any different. Viewing through the PME finder or the usual waist level finder, would just give the same amount of sharp and un-sharp shots, as the lenses are not entirely godlike fast, shutter speeds are tougher on the photographer.
Focusing on a 6x6 is heavenly easy using the latest focusing screens available, rather shutter speeds would be more of an issue for outdoor use if natural light isn't available.
Seanlim,
metering manually vs. metering using a DSLR is equally accurate and inaccurate. If you understand the limitations of the film / sensor in terms of dynamic range, metering isn't an issue.
Its easier to find Hasselblad Accessories on Ebay rather than SG, however, most of the time, when I see bodies being sold, they do come with a pretty decent set of accessories in SG.
Yes, there are still mint old Hassy for sale, mind old but untouched = same working condition as good condition used Hassy. A mint untouched unit, might have dried up & crack light seals and dried up lubrication inside it, giving you a 100-300 dollar CLA checkup fee.
I beg to differ. I don't think my 500C/M is is just retro, and there to look cool. Its still a very solid, and dependable medium format camera; granted that its been maintained. Mine was given a full CLA and its like a new lease of life, I've been using for many months and there are zero problems, sides its fully mechanical, very little can go wrong. A good CLA and any camera can be used with little or no problems for many years to come.
And yes, I do get 12/12 frames in focus, don't fault the camera, its innocent
If someone gets 6-8 shots out of focus in a roll frequently, he either needs to look into his technique or get his eyes checked. lol. MF film ftw!!!
And yes, I do get 12/12 frames in focus, don't fault the camera, its innocent
If someone gets 6-8 shots out of focus in a roll frequently, he either needs to look into his technique or get his eyes checked. lol. MF film ftw!!!
clubgrit
Senior Member
That's a pretty strong statement. Both digital and film have their appeal, and the 500C/M's images can still be benchmarks.
If this pic of yours represents your idea of focused, well, maybe there is a bigger problem, as 0200903C said, eyesight needs to be checked.
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5267416#post5267416
If this pic of yours represents your idea of focused, well, maybe there is a bigger problem, as 0200903C said, eyesight needs to be checked.
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5267416#post5267416
The 500 series is very retro . Cheap but strictly for film and has its many problems .
Great for hanging over the neck and looking cool - thats it .
Focus takes mastering and you still will get only 8 in focus shots out of 12 in a roll that it allows .
The last version was the best - The 503CW with CWwinder and PME finder ( metering available) because it crosses over from film to digital more easily .
Autofocus and digital is the way to go - buy a H3DII 31 for $23,800 before Gst.
Look for TK foto , Gopes foto , MS color , Fotografix marketing .
Even David from P&G Adelphi.
The 500 series is very retro . Cheap but strictly for film and has its many problems .
Great for hanging over the neck and looking cool - thats it .
Focus takes mastering and you still will get only 8 in focus shots out of 12 in a roll that it allows .
The last version was the best - The 503CW with CWwinder and PME finder ( metering available) because it crosses over from film to digital more easily .
Autofocus and digital is the way to go - buy a H3DII 31 for $23,800 before Gst.
Look for TK foto , Gopes foto , MS color , Fotografix marketing .
Even David from P&G Adelphi.
You do know you just made yourself sound, for a lack of a better word, stupid, right?
Here are some thoughts in blue
Hi guys!
Wanting to join the hasselblad family. - Welcome welcome
Just starting out, which camera would be recommended for a beginner? if you have the budget a camera like the 503CW would be good, as there are still parts around in Shiriro to service them. However the 500 C/M has been around long enough for local shops to have some parts here and there to fix if necessary. For a beginner, I would say IMHO 500C/M or the 553 ELX (motor drive) series
I see a lot of 500c/m cameras floating around for about 1300(worth?)?
It depends, on the condition, and the film back that comes with it. The body doesn't have much mechanical complication to it which is very major, however the film back is critical as some backs might have light leakages and also may not wind as smooth and also may not space the frames as evenly resulting in double exposure or even less than 12 shots on a roll of 120. Check ebay look for A12 backs, see those with a pocket at the back of the back where you are able to keep the dark slide (the shinny metal), those are the "newer" model. Of course having matching last 3 digits of the film back and its inserts helps too
Are there any hasseys with auto metering?
I think the 200 series does this, but they are more expensive and uses a different range of lens (anyone can help me here??). Get a light meter, its more accurate then most DSLRs
Or some form of light metering? What a better choices to the 500c/m if money wasn't a problem? A 503C/W probably due these bodies are newer and have a less "aged" affect on the mechanics. This is on the assumption you're going to buy w/o thinking of doing any CLAs. If this is your first body, its best to either buy from a shop that gives 3 months warranty (benphoto at Peninsular Shopping Centre has a few bodies) where if there is anything wrong, the shop can still help to fix it
Or rather, what is the next few camera down the line after the 500 c/m? Where to buy hassey accessories in singapore? Are there still mint old, hasseys for sale?
Get it from Ebay is cheaper, however do consult any owners first, else you might end up with a wrong version , or bad copy. There are some areas you might need to consider before committing to purchasing these items
haha thanks! sorry for the many qn.s! very keen
500c/m is only good if you get with the acute matte D focusing screen otherwise, it is very difficult to focus as the earlier focusing screen is not that bright.
I have owned the 500c, 500c/m, 501c, 501c/m, 503cx, 553elx, 903SW to 503cw, many may asked what is the difference?
500c, 500c/m is the very first 500 series, most that have used before will know that the problem is the focusing screen being too dim, u definitely need the acute matte d screen and the other thing is the camera will not show full frame when used with lenses longer than 100mm, i.e. 120mm and above because of cropped off from the mirror.
The last latest version that allows full viewing is 553elx, 503cw and 555eld, all has the gliding mirror system.
And mind you when you buy from ebay, you have to be sure and ask and check the year the camera is manufacture and also the condition of the rear camera whether the mounting plate has been abused.
500 series were built at the time for film so the tolerance of the back is totally different from digital back.
All must understand that lenses built for film has different tolerance in the focusing plane as film has generally been 3layers and not as flat and digital is a single layer and flat.
So lateral and chromatic abbreviation will surface when using film lenses i.e. C or CF or CFE lenses on digital back. That is reason why Hasselblad has the DAE technology.
The other disadvantage to have a V-series hookup with the digital back is u need to **** the camera after each shot unless you are using the winder in 503CW or 553ELX and 555ELD. By cocking after each shot means you will move the camera if you have it set on tripod, so likely if you are doing multiple shots, you have some of the shots misaligned.
Also when buying second C, CF or CFE lenses, are you sure your lens shutter perform accurately at all speed even after CLA? I am fortunate to witness the procedure to nail the correct shutter speed in the workshop, it is not easy and due to that it has more mechanical parts in CF lenses, it will not be as accurate in the long run due to either long storage, over usage or etc.
I have used my 903SW with the CF39 digital back it still cant out perform my H2D 22mb with HC35mm. HC lenses has been designed to meet the digital standard, till you use it you will know what I am talking about.
You have to go back to the basics of photography when you use H series or V series with digital back. Not that DSLR is no good, every job requires a different format. DSLR or H series or V series are your resources to aid you in a particular assignment.
However being said that, the quality from H series or CFV digital back is still real and film like, I cant say for the rest of other makers, if not I would not have invested in the H series.
Cheers
I have owned the 500c, 500c/m, 501c, 501c/m, 503cx, 553elx, 903SW to 503cw, many may asked what is the difference?
500c, 500c/m is the very first 500 series, most that have used before will know that the problem is the focusing screen being too dim, u definitely need the acute matte d screen and the other thing is the camera will not show full frame when used with lenses longer than 100mm, i.e. 120mm and above because of cropped off from the mirror.
The last latest version that allows full viewing is 553elx, 503cw and 555eld, all has the gliding mirror system.
And mind you when you buy from ebay, you have to be sure and ask and check the year the camera is manufacture and also the condition of the rear camera whether the mounting plate has been abused.
500 series were built at the time for film so the tolerance of the back is totally different from digital back.
All must understand that lenses built for film has different tolerance in the focusing plane as film has generally been 3layers and not as flat and digital is a single layer and flat.
So lateral and chromatic abbreviation will surface when using film lenses i.e. C or CF or CFE lenses on digital back. That is reason why Hasselblad has the DAE technology.
The other disadvantage to have a V-series hookup with the digital back is u need to **** the camera after each shot unless you are using the winder in 503CW or 553ELX and 555ELD. By cocking after each shot means you will move the camera if you have it set on tripod, so likely if you are doing multiple shots, you have some of the shots misaligned.
Also when buying second C, CF or CFE lenses, are you sure your lens shutter perform accurately at all speed even after CLA? I am fortunate to witness the procedure to nail the correct shutter speed in the workshop, it is not easy and due to that it has more mechanical parts in CF lenses, it will not be as accurate in the long run due to either long storage, over usage or etc.
I have used my 903SW with the CF39 digital back it still cant out perform my H2D 22mb with HC35mm. HC lenses has been designed to meet the digital standard, till you use it you will know what I am talking about.
You have to go back to the basics of photography when you use H series or V series with digital back. Not that DSLR is no good, every job requires a different format. DSLR or H series or V series are your resources to aid you in a particular assignment.
However being said that, the quality from H series or CFV digital back is still real and film like, I cant say for the rest of other makers, if not I would not have invested in the H series.
Cheers
wow! I've recently been bitten by the medium format after taking out my dad's rolleiflex 3.5F for a spin. I am really beginning to fall in love shooting in the 6x6 format. there's something just timeless about it.
anyway back to this thread, I suppose like many newbies I've spent a fair amount of time researching online as well as talking to some of the 2nd hand dealers around the coleman street buildings and have sort came to a few conclusions. the last two posts by neoro and mangojar really cleared up so much questions I had before I needed to ask them!
But I still have some questions that I hope the more experienced users can sort me out.
1. almost every kit comes with the 80mm f2.8 as a standard lens; I was hoping to do shoot a lot more portraits so would adding the 150mm be a good choice? and if so, does this mean that I should hunt for a 503CW for the gliding mirror system? or would I be just as happy with a 500CM or 503CX?
2. if I do get the 503CW, I was hoping to try out the winder. does it really improve the handling? also does it work on the 503CX? I've read some conflicting web postings that it does.
3. black body or chrome body? while the chrome IS the classic Hasselblad look, I do find a certain attraction in the all black body, it's like a evil twin 500 series or something. it just looks the business. But on a more practical note, would a all black body be better suited to constant usage? not having to worry about staining the chrome or am I just fussing over nothing?
4. lastly it's on the A12 film magazines. I've read some feedback on other sites that if one is to start buying 2nd hand Hasselblads, the condition of the film magazines will warrant more scrutiny as the camera bodies themselves are rather tough. if so, what should I look out for? other than the dark slide holder of course.
lastly how much does a new 503CW goes for locally? this is just to give me some idea what would be a reasonable price on the used market.
Looking forward to your replies. thanks a bunch!!
anyway back to this thread, I suppose like many newbies I've spent a fair amount of time researching online as well as talking to some of the 2nd hand dealers around the coleman street buildings and have sort came to a few conclusions. the last two posts by neoro and mangojar really cleared up so much questions I had before I needed to ask them!
But I still have some questions that I hope the more experienced users can sort me out.
1. almost every kit comes with the 80mm f2.8 as a standard lens; I was hoping to do shoot a lot more portraits so would adding the 150mm be a good choice? and if so, does this mean that I should hunt for a 503CW for the gliding mirror system? or would I be just as happy with a 500CM or 503CX?
2. if I do get the 503CW, I was hoping to try out the winder. does it really improve the handling? also does it work on the 503CX? I've read some conflicting web postings that it does.
3. black body or chrome body? while the chrome IS the classic Hasselblad look, I do find a certain attraction in the all black body, it's like a evil twin 500 series or something. it just looks the business. But on a more practical note, would a all black body be better suited to constant usage? not having to worry about staining the chrome or am I just fussing over nothing?
4. lastly it's on the A12 film magazines. I've read some feedback on other sites that if one is to start buying 2nd hand Hasselblads, the condition of the film magazines will warrant more scrutiny as the camera bodies themselves are rather tough. if so, what should I look out for? other than the dark slide holder of course.
lastly how much does a new 503CW goes for locally? this is just to give me some idea what would be a reasonable price on the used market.
Looking forward to your replies. thanks a bunch!!
Interestingly, I was also fortunate enough to witness the whole CLA procedure when it was being done to my lens over a period of 2 whole days, and i was present when he calibrated the shutter speeds using a machine that records the milliseconds before the shutter closes. Cheers!
503CW would be wise rather 500CM/503CX
150mm CFE would be a better investment than the CF or C of CFI. CF or C would be cheap but u will have problems eventually if get a bad copy because to change the parts and calibrate the shutter timing is no joke.
The reason being if u hook up to a Hasselblad digital back like CFV, DAC is applied. Check www.hasselblad.com for CFV 39 specs.
However some prefer 120mm, so it all depends on you, you have to try it to know.
When buying 503CW, you have to check which year is manufactured. earlier models the iso goes to 800 and being the most current year goes to 3200. so when u hunt for the 503cw, u can determine yourself the year, just follow this code, VHPICTURES = 0123456789 i.e. V=0
say the 19EH*****, means manufacture 1981
say the 19SS*****, mean manufacture 2000
So opt the 2000 ones, another advise if you are buying off ebay, try buy as a kit, i.e. with 80mm CFE lens rather than buy body than the lens later cos this will incur shipping charges it may eventually cost more.
Preferably go for full box, so that resale value is there.
The winder does balance well, as it forms a grip however is really heavy, cant handheld for long. Not really necessary, unless as i have said use it for multiple shots set up where u dont wish to kock the camera. anyway the winder comes with a infra red trigger be sure it comes with it when u buy.
Winder CW is for 503Cw and 503cxi.
As for the film back try go for the latest version i.e. with the darkslide holder, make sure with matching serial number with insert.
Dont get cheap ones or older version, u will end up servicing it due to light leak. Have too many of this issue when got those last time.
Great to hear that another user managed to seat in witness the CLA procedure! Getting the correct shutter speed tru out the range is no mean feat.
Aesthetics Black or chrome is fine, as long u can shoot with it, is a choice.
I dont advise getting second hand hasselblad from local dealers, firstly, they are on the high side, secondly, not many to choose from.
150mm CFE would be a better investment than the CF or C of CFI. CF or C would be cheap but u will have problems eventually if get a bad copy because to change the parts and calibrate the shutter timing is no joke.
The reason being if u hook up to a Hasselblad digital back like CFV, DAC is applied. Check www.hasselblad.com for CFV 39 specs.
However some prefer 120mm, so it all depends on you, you have to try it to know.
When buying 503CW, you have to check which year is manufactured. earlier models the iso goes to 800 and being the most current year goes to 3200. so when u hunt for the 503cw, u can determine yourself the year, just follow this code, VHPICTURES = 0123456789 i.e. V=0
say the 19EH*****, means manufacture 1981
say the 19SS*****, mean manufacture 2000
So opt the 2000 ones, another advise if you are buying off ebay, try buy as a kit, i.e. with 80mm CFE lens rather than buy body than the lens later cos this will incur shipping charges it may eventually cost more.
Preferably go for full box, so that resale value is there.
The winder does balance well, as it forms a grip however is really heavy, cant handheld for long. Not really necessary, unless as i have said use it for multiple shots set up where u dont wish to kock the camera. anyway the winder comes with a infra red trigger be sure it comes with it when u buy.
Winder CW is for 503Cw and 503cxi.
As for the film back try go for the latest version i.e. with the darkslide holder, make sure with matching serial number with insert.
Dont get cheap ones or older version, u will end up servicing it due to light leak. Have too many of this issue when got those last time.
Great to hear that another user managed to seat in witness the CLA procedure! Getting the correct shutter speed tru out the range is no mean feat.
Aesthetics Black or chrome is fine, as long u can shoot with it, is a choice.
I dont advise getting second hand hasselblad from local dealers, firstly, they are on the high side, secondly, not many to choose from.
Lots of misconceptions here:
1. Lack of GMS means camera will not show full frame (yes-- but omitted to mention the film will still capture full frame; and in any case, what difference does it make when the digital back is cropped?).
2. Lousy tolerance of older Hassy's causes lateral and chromatic aberrations (where is the theory to support that? If so, then why does CA exist even in the top-brand integrated DSLRs, those with imaging chips built-in?);
3. Shutter speed variance of mechanical lenses makes them unsuitable for digital-- heard of lattitude?
4. Mechanical rewinding after every shot makes the camera unsuitable for multi-exposures-- possible of course, but by no means certain and not a reason to reject a digital back. Personally I think activating the mirror lockup causes more potential movement than rewinding.
1. Lack of GMS means camera will not show full frame (yes-- but omitted to mention the film will still capture full frame; and in any case, what difference does it make when the digital back is cropped?).
2. Lousy tolerance of older Hassy's causes lateral and chromatic aberrations (where is the theory to support that? If so, then why does CA exist even in the top-brand integrated DSLRs, those with imaging chips built-in?);
3. Shutter speed variance of mechanical lenses makes them unsuitable for digital-- heard of lattitude?
4. Mechanical rewinding after every shot makes the camera unsuitable for multi-exposures-- possible of course, but by no means certain and not a reason to reject a digital back. Personally I think activating the mirror lockup causes more potential movement than rewinding.
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Let me add.
I think Mr. Wong from Fotografix has the brand new 200 series back which can be used on the 500 series
Bought 1, 2 months back, its a heaven to use brand new backs
Lots of Misconception???? how appropriate here. Pardon that I have mislead with my broken english.
Perhaps you can share your experience with Hasselblad V and H system to our dear newbies?
I may not have expressed well but i am sharing what i know and how i use. if there are better ways of expressing perhaps u can highlight to everyone to learn?
It is true that with digital back it does not make a difference provided you are using the V96C or CFV because the CCD size is smaller but what if u are using the CFV39 and u want to shoot portrait, it will be cropped in the finder though will be capture on back, is that vignetting annoying, i leave it to the user to decide?
However for someone that is new to hasselblad series, they should be inform that if the V-Series do not have the GMS, like 500cm, 501cm 503cx, when using a 100mm or longer, the viewfinder will be cropped but still be capture on film. So for someone that has no idea which to buy, they may opt for a cheaper 500cm for example and then realised that it is cropped in the finder when they use 150mm, it is pretty annoying isnt it. How are they able to judge when they have the correct cropping?
Why not help this people to decide, they cant possibly buy one and try and later have to sell again, right?
Is this a misconception?
As for chromatic abbrevation and lens resolving power with regards to tolerance on film and digital back, you can read the schneider white paper on digital lenses and conventional lenses. May be I did not express well but the white paper explains.
Is this a misconception?
Yes, exposure latitude is always there to assist you however, if you are shooting professionally, your gear is utmost important that they perform accurately. How do you like when you shoot 100 exposures daily and you have 10-20% failing rate due to inaccuracy or inconsistency in shutter timing? It is like shoot first than edit later in photoshop or in the darkroom?
Mind you, most maybe tempted to buy a C or CF lens due to low price and hoping to send to shriro to service to tip-top condition, it will not be, as the lenses has aged and parts are almost not available. and later regret about the purchase, it is worth it? If they are shooting in film with older lenses and camera body, I wouldnt be bothered but not digital.
It would be ill advise, if i tell all to get a 500cm and a C lens and get CFV back and you on track to digital medium format back, it will not be.
Is this a misconception?
Lastly, I do not know what to say about your last comment.
Let me paint you 2 scenario.
Lets say u have your 501cm or 500cm with CFV digital back, on tripod photographing an interior, you need to capture 3 or 4 different exposure, with mirror lockup, after each shot u need to kock the camera, u think u wont move the camera? Perhaps anyone that has a V series can comment whether they are confident the movement of cocking will somehow will not move the camera. Or if you have a choice, use 503CW with winder and infra red trigger.
Another scenario, lets say you bought the H3D with only 80mm lens, but prior to this u have all V series lenses, 40mm, 50mm, 120mm etc. You rather use these lenses with CF adapter to save money. Same interior scene, u have your H3D with CF Adapter and a 40mm lens, mirror up, on tripod.
You need to capture 3 or 4 different exposure, after each shot u still need to kock because it is the V lenses, u think u wont move the camera? I doubt it.
If you dont have a cf adapter, go to shriro and try and u see whether u will move the camera.
Professionally, for critical work I would not try and even think about it.
Misconception, I doubt it, unless I dont own the hasselblad V and H series and use it professionally.
Perhaps you can share your experience with Hasselblad V and H system to our dear newbies?
I may not have expressed well but i am sharing what i know and how i use. if there are better ways of expressing perhaps u can highlight to everyone to learn?
It is true that with digital back it does not make a difference provided you are using the V96C or CFV because the CCD size is smaller but what if u are using the CFV39 and u want to shoot portrait, it will be cropped in the finder though will be capture on back, is that vignetting annoying, i leave it to the user to decide?
However for someone that is new to hasselblad series, they should be inform that if the V-Series do not have the GMS, like 500cm, 501cm 503cx, when using a 100mm or longer, the viewfinder will be cropped but still be capture on film. So for someone that has no idea which to buy, they may opt for a cheaper 500cm for example and then realised that it is cropped in the finder when they use 150mm, it is pretty annoying isnt it. How are they able to judge when they have the correct cropping?
Why not help this people to decide, they cant possibly buy one and try and later have to sell again, right?
Is this a misconception?
As for chromatic abbrevation and lens resolving power with regards to tolerance on film and digital back, you can read the schneider white paper on digital lenses and conventional lenses. May be I did not express well but the white paper explains.
Is this a misconception?
Yes, exposure latitude is always there to assist you however, if you are shooting professionally, your gear is utmost important that they perform accurately. How do you like when you shoot 100 exposures daily and you have 10-20% failing rate due to inaccuracy or inconsistency in shutter timing? It is like shoot first than edit later in photoshop or in the darkroom?
Mind you, most maybe tempted to buy a C or CF lens due to low price and hoping to send to shriro to service to tip-top condition, it will not be, as the lenses has aged and parts are almost not available. and later regret about the purchase, it is worth it? If they are shooting in film with older lenses and camera body, I wouldnt be bothered but not digital.
It would be ill advise, if i tell all to get a 500cm and a C lens and get CFV back and you on track to digital medium format back, it will not be.
Is this a misconception?
Lastly, I do not know what to say about your last comment.
Let me paint you 2 scenario.
Lets say u have your 501cm or 500cm with CFV digital back, on tripod photographing an interior, you need to capture 3 or 4 different exposure, with mirror lockup, after each shot u need to kock the camera, u think u wont move the camera? Perhaps anyone that has a V series can comment whether they are confident the movement of cocking will somehow will not move the camera. Or if you have a choice, use 503CW with winder and infra red trigger.
Another scenario, lets say you bought the H3D with only 80mm lens, but prior to this u have all V series lenses, 40mm, 50mm, 120mm etc. You rather use these lenses with CF adapter to save money. Same interior scene, u have your H3D with CF Adapter and a 40mm lens, mirror up, on tripod.
You need to capture 3 or 4 different exposure, after each shot u still need to kock because it is the V lenses, u think u wont move the camera? I doubt it.
If you dont have a cf adapter, go to shriro and try and u see whether u will move the camera.
Professionally, for critical work I would not try and even think about it.
Misconception, I doubt it, unless I dont own the hasselblad V and H series and use it professionally.
1. Misconception #1: Chromatic aberration caused by V bodies lousy tolerance? I suggest you read up. Wiki explains it very well. I quote below:
"In optics, chromatic aberration (also called achromatism) is the failure of a lens to focus all colors to the same point. It occurs because lenses have a different refractive index for different wavelengths of light (the dispersion of the lens). The refractive index decreases with increasing wavelength.
Chromatic aberration manifests itself as "fringes" of color along boundaries that separate dark and bright parts of the image, because each color in the optical spectrum cannot be focused at a single common point on the optical axis.
The term "purple fringing" is commonly used in photography, although not all purple fringing can be attributed to chromatic aberration.... On digital cameras, the particular demosaicing algorithm is likely to affect the apparent degree of this problem. Another cause of this fringing is chromatic aberration in the very small microlenses used to collect more light for each CCD pixel; since these lenses are tuned to correctly focus green light, the incorrect focusing of red and blue results in purple fringing around highlights. This is a uniform problem across the frame, and is more of a problem in CCD's with a very small pixel pitch such as those used in compact cameras. Some cameras, such as the Panasonic Lumix series and newer Nikon DSLRs, feature a processing step specifically designed to remove it."
If you don't understand the English above, I'll translate for you: CA has nothing to do with the V bodies tolerance. It's caused by optics. And made worse by digital chips.
So it has nothing to do with old V bodies' tolerance. Are you man enough to take that back?
2. Misconception #2: 501CM has vignetting. FYI, 501CM has GMS. Are you man enough to take that back too?
3. Is the difference between 1/500 and 1/400 so significant that you cannot live with it? 10-20% failing rate because of this? You must be a damned good photographer then. Because for years and years, pro photographers have been using Hassys with slide film (same lattitude as digital, or even less) with no apparent problems.
Really, what's more important? Knowing how to meter (since V cameras are manual), or knowing that your lens has zero variance in shutter speed? Because most users seem to be able to live with it, esp since human metering errors of 1 stop or more are not uncommon. That's much worse than any 10% tolerance in shutter speeds, which a lens will have after a good CLA.
4. Misconception #4-- CF lenses got no parts, are not serviceable. FYI, CF, CFE, CFI lenses are all perfectly serviceable. And if you surf the auction website you'll find them selling at good prices. If you think they are not, why not donate your CF lenses to me? As for C lenses, parts are scrace, but they are so cheap nowadays, if it fails and can't be serviced because of lack of parts, buy another-- what's the big deal? Though I don't use C lenses because they use the EV system by default and they don't usually have T* coating. But that doesn't mean they can't be used for digital.
My last comment is that the remote possibility of moving a camera because of cocking is not a reason to rule it out for digital photography-- is that so difficult to understand? As if the whole reason for buying this camera is to shoot multi-exposures, and this somehow disqualifies the Hassy for digital usage.
My points are simple:
a. CA has nothing to do with old V bodies tolerance. That's BS.
b. Vignetting happens on old bodies, but it's worse on film since digital is cropped. It doesn't affect the image. You decide if you want to avoid it by getting a newer body.
c. V bodies and lenses are perfectly fine for digital. In fact, V bodies and lenses are a damn cost-effective way to get into MF digital.
d. The remote possibility of moving a body when cocking does not mean the body is no good for digital. It only means it's not the best tool for a certain specialised application. Which is very rare. And this affects the user regardless of film or digital-- in fact, it affects the film user more since he can't do an instant check.
"In optics, chromatic aberration (also called achromatism) is the failure of a lens to focus all colors to the same point. It occurs because lenses have a different refractive index for different wavelengths of light (the dispersion of the lens). The refractive index decreases with increasing wavelength.
Chromatic aberration manifests itself as "fringes" of color along boundaries that separate dark and bright parts of the image, because each color in the optical spectrum cannot be focused at a single common point on the optical axis.
The term "purple fringing" is commonly used in photography, although not all purple fringing can be attributed to chromatic aberration.... On digital cameras, the particular demosaicing algorithm is likely to affect the apparent degree of this problem. Another cause of this fringing is chromatic aberration in the very small microlenses used to collect more light for each CCD pixel; since these lenses are tuned to correctly focus green light, the incorrect focusing of red and blue results in purple fringing around highlights. This is a uniform problem across the frame, and is more of a problem in CCD's with a very small pixel pitch such as those used in compact cameras. Some cameras, such as the Panasonic Lumix series and newer Nikon DSLRs, feature a processing step specifically designed to remove it."
If you don't understand the English above, I'll translate for you: CA has nothing to do with the V bodies tolerance. It's caused by optics. And made worse by digital chips.
So it has nothing to do with old V bodies' tolerance. Are you man enough to take that back?
2. Misconception #2: 501CM has vignetting. FYI, 501CM has GMS. Are you man enough to take that back too?
3. Is the difference between 1/500 and 1/400 so significant that you cannot live with it? 10-20% failing rate because of this? You must be a damned good photographer then. Because for years and years, pro photographers have been using Hassys with slide film (same lattitude as digital, or even less) with no apparent problems.
Really, what's more important? Knowing how to meter (since V cameras are manual), or knowing that your lens has zero variance in shutter speed? Because most users seem to be able to live with it, esp since human metering errors of 1 stop or more are not uncommon. That's much worse than any 10% tolerance in shutter speeds, which a lens will have after a good CLA.
4. Misconception #4-- CF lenses got no parts, are not serviceable. FYI, CF, CFE, CFI lenses are all perfectly serviceable. And if you surf the auction website you'll find them selling at good prices. If you think they are not, why not donate your CF lenses to me? As for C lenses, parts are scrace, but they are so cheap nowadays, if it fails and can't be serviced because of lack of parts, buy another-- what's the big deal? Though I don't use C lenses because they use the EV system by default and they don't usually have T* coating. But that doesn't mean they can't be used for digital.
My last comment is that the remote possibility of moving a camera because of cocking is not a reason to rule it out for digital photography-- is that so difficult to understand? As if the whole reason for buying this camera is to shoot multi-exposures, and this somehow disqualifies the Hassy for digital usage.
Lots of Misconception???? how appropriate here. Pardon that I have mislead with my broken english.
Perhaps you can share your experience with Hasselblad V and H system to our dear newbies?
I may not have expressed well but i am sharing what i know and how i use. if there are better ways of expressing perhaps u can highlight to everyone to learn?
It is true that with digital back it does not make a difference provided you are using the V96C or CFV because the CCD size is smaller but what if u are using the CFV39 and u want to shoot portrait, it will be cropped in the finder though will be capture on back, is that vignetting annoying, i leave it to the user to decide?
However for someone that is new to hasselblad series, they should be inform that if the V-Series do not have the GMS, like 500cm, 501cm 503cx, when using a 100mm or longer, the viewfinder will be cropped but still be capture on film. So for someone that has no idea which to buy, they may opt for a cheaper 500cm for example and then realised that it is cropped in the finder when they use 150mm, it is pretty annoying isnt it. How are they able to judge when they have the correct cropping?
Why not help this people to decide, they cant possibly buy one and try and later have to sell again, right?
Is this a misconception?
As for chromatic abbrevation and lens resolving power with regards to tolerance on film and digital back, you can read the schneider white paper on digital lenses and conventional lenses. May be I did not express well but the white paper explains.
Is this a misconception?
Yes, exposure latitude is always there to assist you however, if you are shooting professionally, your gear is utmost important that they perform accurately. How do you like when you shoot 100 exposures daily and you have 10-20% failing rate due to inaccuracy or inconsistency in shutter timing? It is like shoot first than edit later in photoshop or in the darkroom?
Mind you, most maybe tempted to buy a C or CF lens due to low price and hoping to send to shriro to service to tip-top condition, it will not be, as the lenses has aged and parts are almost not available. and later regret about the purchase, it is worth it? If they are shooting in film with older lenses and camera body, I wouldnt be bothered but not digital.
It would be ill advise, if i tell all to get a 500cm and a C lens and get CFV back and you on track to digital medium format back, it will not be.
Is this a misconception?
Lastly, I do not know what to say about your last comment.
Let me paint you 2 scenario.
Lets say u have your 501cm or 500cm with CFV digital back, on tripod photographing an interior, you need to capture 3 or 4 different exposure, with mirror lockup, after each shot u need to kock the camera, u think u wont move the camera? Perhaps anyone that has a V series can comment whether they are confident the movement of cocking will somehow will not move the camera. Or if you have a choice, use 503CW with winder and infra red trigger.
Another scenario, lets say you bought the H3D with only 80mm lens, but prior to this u have all V series lenses, 40mm, 50mm, 120mm etc. You rather use these lenses with CF adapter to save money. Same interior scene, u have your H3D with CF Adapter and a 40mm lens, mirror up, on tripod.
You need to capture 3 or 4 different exposure, after each shot u still need to kock because it is the V lenses, u think u wont move the camera? I doubt it.
If you dont have a cf adapter, go to shriro and try and u see whether u will move the camera.
Professionally, for critical work I would not try and even think about it.
Misconception, I doubt it, unless I dont own the hasselblad V and H series and use it professionally.
My points are simple:
a. CA has nothing to do with old V bodies tolerance. That's BS.
b. Vignetting happens on old bodies, but it's worse on film since digital is cropped. It doesn't affect the image. You decide if you want to avoid it by getting a newer body.
c. V bodies and lenses are perfectly fine for digital. In fact, V bodies and lenses are a damn cost-effective way to get into MF digital.
d. The remote possibility of moving a body when cocking does not mean the body is no good for digital. It only means it's not the best tool for a certain specialised application. Which is very rare. And this affects the user regardless of film or digital-- in fact, it affects the film user more since he can't do an instant check.
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If I dont understand english, is there a need for you to translate in english?????? OMG SSSH
Try translate in chinese or malay, maybe i can undrestand:bigeyes:
Quote:
"So lateral and chromatic abbreviation will surface when using film lenses i.e. C or CF or CFE lenses on digital back. That is reason why Hasselblad has the DAE technology."
Btw, pardon for the Typo Correction should be DAC.
When did I said "CA has something to do with old V bodies tolerance".
I SAID USING FILM LENSES ON DIGITAL BACK?????
MAN YOU ARE PICKING BONES FROM NOWHERE???? You dont have to man enough to take anything back here.
YES, 501CM has GMS, agreed, is my mistake to misinform. So all take note here, however it is still not a misconception. Is wrong information.
Quote:
"Is the difference between 1/500 and 1/400 so significant that you cannot live with it? 10-20% failing rate because of this? You must be a damned good photographer then. Because for years and years, pro photographers have been using Hassys with slide film (same lattitude as digital, or even less) with no apparent problems."
How sure are you that all year round they have no problems? did they inform you? any statistic to support? or was it a misconception that you assume?
I guess you must very pro then, pardon my sharing here.
The basic fact is this, I am trying to share by my experience that for someone to buy a old lens like C or CF, if you get a bad copy or good copy the problems will surface with using digital back. The first thing happens is the shutter. I would suggest go for digital lenses like H series. Save up and have one purchase. If you disagree then share your experience with others what better way to do it and not dig bones here. If you are so superior with your thinking and always think people has misconception, get alive, MAN!
Or are you telling all to accept the difference between 1/500 and 1/400 and live with it when you pay for lens range from of US$700-3000. Live with it since you pay so much???
Quote:
"Really, what's more important? Knowing how to meter (since V cameras are manual), or knowing that your lens has zero variance in shutter speed? Because most users seem to be able to live with it, esp since human metering errors of 1 stop or more are not uncommon. That's much worse than any 10% tolerance in shutter speeds, which a lens will have after a good CLA."
You see the problem you have is this with the above statement. The basic understanding is this. When you have your gears, it must be able to perform as spelt out and not work with problem. Yes, knowing how to meter can solve the problem, I didnt say that you cant right. Most users can live with it, so you must be one of them. Human error is fine anyway most of the time is the users problem not the camera.
Quote:
". V bodies and lenses are perfectly fine for digital. In fact, V bodies and lenses are a damn cost-effective way to get into MF digital."
Fine not perfectly, if you are using CFE lenses. Try use the C lenses and see if you get good results. Damn Cost effective, I doubt so, in the end it may cost you more. Anyway anyone wish to try getting a kit and try, share your experience here.
Second hand CFV cost about US$6000plus, V96C US$3500plus minus, 500CM kit US$1300-1600, servicing say S$500-1000.
So about US$7000-8000 for CFV, US$5000-6000 for V96C for start than later you may add a 150mm or 40mm for US$500-750 or US$1600-2500 so have to set aside close to US$10000-12000 for CFV and US$8000-9000 for V96C.
Lets factor in another US$2000-3000 just in case it need to send in for repair etc. Worth it??? You guys decide whether is cost effective.
After using awhile you realise the problems I have shared, you want to change, how sell away, most likely at a lost. Is it worth it?????
So a H-series say the H3D II 31mb for S$23k is it worth all the worries or a Mamiya M22 for S$14-15k for example.
It is the system that one has to consider after buying the camera. Lets face it V-series is really just for film and you are compromising to use with the digital back. If not why Tim Flach and Alec Soth move from V-series to H-series.
Mind you, you do not have any exif data on the aperture and shutter speed and DAE correction when you use C or Cf or CFi lenses on hasselblad digital back like CFV Cf39 etc. Again, you may pick bones here, it that important, you can always use third party software?????
Quote:
" Misconception #4-- CF lenses got no parts, are not serviceable. FYI, CF, CFE, CFI lenses are all perfectly serviceable. And if you surf the auction website you'll find them selling at good prices. If you think they are not, why not donate your CF lenses to me? As for C lenses, parts are scrace, but they are so cheap nowadays, if it fails and can't be serviced because of lack of parts, buy another-- what's the big deal? Though I don't use C lenses because they use the EV system by default and they don't usually have T* coating. But that doesn't mean they can't be used for digital."
Wow, I think you have a deep pocket, not everyone can just buy another one if one fails, in my opinion, I dont think so this is good advise, however it is not a misconception."You wouldnt want my CF lens as you can buy another one or two C cos u have deep pockets." I didnt say that C lenses or CF lenses cant use for the digital, it can but you will see not good results. I didnt say that no parts for CF and not servicable, see quote below. Digging bones again???
Quote:
"Mind you, most maybe tempted to buy a C or CF lens due to low price and hoping to send to shriro to service to tip-top condition, it will not be, as the lenses has aged and parts are almost not available. and later regret about the purchase, it is worth it? "
Quote:
"My last comment is that the remote possibility of moving a camera because of cocking is not a reason to rule it out for digital photography-- is that so difficult to understand? As if the whole reason for buying this camera is to shoot multi-exposures, and this somehow disqualifies the Hassy for digital usage."
You have to try and translate in other langauage??? No I didnt say that the whole reason to buy this camera is for multiple exposures or to rule out digital due to the fact of the movement of kocking.
The basic idea is to share that if you are using the V series, you will encounter this problem, would you want to buy first and realise this problem or otherwise...yah forgot you got deep pocket and always buy another one or two.
The theory is the same, someone wants to go into large format, most will think just get a 4x5 camera and mount a digital back and you are ready to roll out, which is wrong. The lenses that came with 4x5 camera is still mechanical or they call it analog, so still need to kock after every frame and not to mention about the resolving power and lateral and chromatic abbr caused by the lens, you still need to move the aperture and shutter speed may also caused some movement. Imagine you are using the digital lens and digital shutter controller, just change all setting and press shutter release in the controller.
You may dig bones here, in film time already like that all pros use it year to year and no apparent problem, whats teh fuss right????
Would the problem stated above good enough to justify to buy a digital system instead.
So I tend to agree with your statement on "this somehow disqualifies the Hassy for digital usage." but only for V-series.
Quote:
"The remote possibility of moving a body when cocking does not mean the body is no good for digital. It only means it's not the best tool for a certain specialised application. Which is very rare. And this affects the user regardless of film or digital-- in fact, it affects the film user more since he can't do an instant check."
I didnt say is no good for digital, it is a problem one will face, so by sharing my experience, all will be able to think about it before their investment unlike you which always buy another set. and Yes, I agreed it affects both film and digital, you make sense now.
Try translate in chinese or malay, maybe i can undrestand:bigeyes:
Quote:
"So lateral and chromatic abbreviation will surface when using film lenses i.e. C or CF or CFE lenses on digital back. That is reason why Hasselblad has the DAE technology."
Btw, pardon for the Typo Correction should be DAC.
When did I said "CA has something to do with old V bodies tolerance".
I SAID USING FILM LENSES ON DIGITAL BACK?????
MAN YOU ARE PICKING BONES FROM NOWHERE???? You dont have to man enough to take anything back here.
YES, 501CM has GMS, agreed, is my mistake to misinform. So all take note here, however it is still not a misconception. Is wrong information.
Quote:
"Is the difference between 1/500 and 1/400 so significant that you cannot live with it? 10-20% failing rate because of this? You must be a damned good photographer then. Because for years and years, pro photographers have been using Hassys with slide film (same lattitude as digital, or even less) with no apparent problems."
How sure are you that all year round they have no problems? did they inform you? any statistic to support? or was it a misconception that you assume?
I guess you must very pro then, pardon my sharing here.
The basic fact is this, I am trying to share by my experience that for someone to buy a old lens like C or CF, if you get a bad copy or good copy the problems will surface with using digital back. The first thing happens is the shutter. I would suggest go for digital lenses like H series. Save up and have one purchase. If you disagree then share your experience with others what better way to do it and not dig bones here. If you are so superior with your thinking and always think people has misconception, get alive, MAN!
Or are you telling all to accept the difference between 1/500 and 1/400 and live with it when you pay for lens range from of US$700-3000. Live with it since you pay so much???
Quote:
"Really, what's more important? Knowing how to meter (since V cameras are manual), or knowing that your lens has zero variance in shutter speed? Because most users seem to be able to live with it, esp since human metering errors of 1 stop or more are not uncommon. That's much worse than any 10% tolerance in shutter speeds, which a lens will have after a good CLA."
You see the problem you have is this with the above statement. The basic understanding is this. When you have your gears, it must be able to perform as spelt out and not work with problem. Yes, knowing how to meter can solve the problem, I didnt say that you cant right. Most users can live with it, so you must be one of them. Human error is fine anyway most of the time is the users problem not the camera.
Quote:
". V bodies and lenses are perfectly fine for digital. In fact, V bodies and lenses are a damn cost-effective way to get into MF digital."
Fine not perfectly, if you are using CFE lenses. Try use the C lenses and see if you get good results. Damn Cost effective, I doubt so, in the end it may cost you more. Anyway anyone wish to try getting a kit and try, share your experience here.
Second hand CFV cost about US$6000plus, V96C US$3500plus minus, 500CM kit US$1300-1600, servicing say S$500-1000.
So about US$7000-8000 for CFV, US$5000-6000 for V96C for start than later you may add a 150mm or 40mm for US$500-750 or US$1600-2500 so have to set aside close to US$10000-12000 for CFV and US$8000-9000 for V96C.
Lets factor in another US$2000-3000 just in case it need to send in for repair etc. Worth it??? You guys decide whether is cost effective.
After using awhile you realise the problems I have shared, you want to change, how sell away, most likely at a lost. Is it worth it?????
So a H-series say the H3D II 31mb for S$23k is it worth all the worries or a Mamiya M22 for S$14-15k for example.
It is the system that one has to consider after buying the camera. Lets face it V-series is really just for film and you are compromising to use with the digital back. If not why Tim Flach and Alec Soth move from V-series to H-series.
Mind you, you do not have any exif data on the aperture and shutter speed and DAE correction when you use C or Cf or CFi lenses on hasselblad digital back like CFV Cf39 etc. Again, you may pick bones here, it that important, you can always use third party software?????
Quote:
" Misconception #4-- CF lenses got no parts, are not serviceable. FYI, CF, CFE, CFI lenses are all perfectly serviceable. And if you surf the auction website you'll find them selling at good prices. If you think they are not, why not donate your CF lenses to me? As for C lenses, parts are scrace, but they are so cheap nowadays, if it fails and can't be serviced because of lack of parts, buy another-- what's the big deal? Though I don't use C lenses because they use the EV system by default and they don't usually have T* coating. But that doesn't mean they can't be used for digital."
Wow, I think you have a deep pocket, not everyone can just buy another one if one fails, in my opinion, I dont think so this is good advise, however it is not a misconception."You wouldnt want my CF lens as you can buy another one or two C cos u have deep pockets." I didnt say that C lenses or CF lenses cant use for the digital, it can but you will see not good results. I didnt say that no parts for CF and not servicable, see quote below. Digging bones again???
Quote:
"Mind you, most maybe tempted to buy a C or CF lens due to low price and hoping to send to shriro to service to tip-top condition, it will not be, as the lenses has aged and parts are almost not available. and later regret about the purchase, it is worth it? "
Quote:
"My last comment is that the remote possibility of moving a camera because of cocking is not a reason to rule it out for digital photography-- is that so difficult to understand? As if the whole reason for buying this camera is to shoot multi-exposures, and this somehow disqualifies the Hassy for digital usage."
You have to try and translate in other langauage??? No I didnt say that the whole reason to buy this camera is for multiple exposures or to rule out digital due to the fact of the movement of kocking.
The basic idea is to share that if you are using the V series, you will encounter this problem, would you want to buy first and realise this problem or otherwise...yah forgot you got deep pocket and always buy another one or two.
The theory is the same, someone wants to go into large format, most will think just get a 4x5 camera and mount a digital back and you are ready to roll out, which is wrong. The lenses that came with 4x5 camera is still mechanical or they call it analog, so still need to kock after every frame and not to mention about the resolving power and lateral and chromatic abbr caused by the lens, you still need to move the aperture and shutter speed may also caused some movement. Imagine you are using the digital lens and digital shutter controller, just change all setting and press shutter release in the controller.
You may dig bones here, in film time already like that all pros use it year to year and no apparent problem, whats teh fuss right????
Would the problem stated above good enough to justify to buy a digital system instead.
So I tend to agree with your statement on "this somehow disqualifies the Hassy for digital usage." but only for V-series.
Quote:
"The remote possibility of moving a body when cocking does not mean the body is no good for digital. It only means it's not the best tool for a certain specialised application. Which is very rare. And this affects the user regardless of film or digital-- in fact, it affects the film user more since he can't do an instant check."
I didnt say is no good for digital, it is a problem one will face, so by sharing my experience, all will be able to think about it before their investment unlike you which always buy another set. and Yes, I agreed it affects both film and digital, you make sense now.
quote:
"It is the system that one has to consider after buying the camera. Lets face it V-series is really just for film and you are compromising to use with the digital back. If not why Tim Flach and Alec Soth move from V-series to H-series."
Correction, should be before. One should evaluate the system before purchase the camera.
"It is the system that one has to consider after buying the camera. Lets face it V-series is really just for film and you are compromising to use with the digital back. If not why Tim Flach and Alec Soth move from V-series to H-series."
Correction, should be before. One should evaluate the system before purchase the camera.
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