Has ClubSNAP become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken adv?

[Pro Image]

Wah this topic is so hot huh? I think you all want to really beat the U/W.......but still a very long way to go....... :sweatsm:

Hey JED, TME and Winston...........are you mentally exausted yet? Well I am by reading all your views. If you were to go through from the first post, you will find it very amusing what you all have been talking about. :bsmilie:

Today there will be more Newbies and Amatuers and the PROs going to step on the wrong foot again! :bigeyes:

Just waiting for it but I am going to SITEX first. See what they have for me. Anyone going there today? OR are you all there already.........

Just a reminder, never get agitated, upset or angry. Ok boys and girls(well if there is a girl in this post here)! Have fun! :cheergal:

Ladies and gentlemen..........Tune in later to channel CS forum on "HAS CLUBSNAP BECOME A SOURCING SPOT FOR CHEAP PHOTOGRAPHER. ARE WE BEING TAKEN ADV?" Don't forget the concluding episodes........if there is any to conclude (Just like the show Holland V...never seem to end......and getting sick of them)

MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU ALL............... :cheers:

 

[sehsuan]

oh yeah. see you folks at sitex tonight!

 

[Astin]

Actually I tried very hard but still cannot figure out 1 important thing.
The question from the original thread starter:
( Has clubsnap become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken adv? )
What does the term "we" refer to?
- clubsnap members?
- cheap photographers?
- everyone who posted in this thread? (now that includes me!)
- a combination of the above 3?

Dont get too serious, me just trying to keep this thread longer and longer.....

 

[Pro Image]

Actually I tried very hard but still cannot figure out 1 important thing.
The question from the original thread starter:
( Has clubsnap become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken adv? )
What does the term "we" refer to?
- clubsnap members?
- cheap photographers?
- everyone who posted in this thread? (now that includes me!)
- a combination of the above 3?

Dont get too serious, me just trying to keep this thread longer and longer.....

Here we go again..........but no comment on the above quote! :mad2:

 

[SniperD]

Actually I tried very hard but still cannot figure out 1 important thing.
The question from the original thread starter:
( Has clubsnap become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken adv? )
What does the term "we" refer to?
- clubsnap members?
- cheap photographers?
- everyone who posted in this thread? (now that includes me!)
- a combination of the above 3?

Dont get too serious, me just trying to keep this thread longer and longer.....

waoh... profound.. same purpose

 

[Pro Image]

waoh... profound.. same purpose

Eh SniperD you going to SITEX today?

 

[SniperD]

SITEX... ehh.. maybe not. I have to finish up the cover design for that newsletter so by the time the tweaking is done, SITEX will be closed.. maybe I'll pop down tomorrow ealry afternoon

Do help look out for good deals and post them up! Entice the wallet... :devil:

 

[ydanz]

How do I market myself? My clients do the marketing for me. :sweat:

Fwahhh!!!!!, there is not other better way to market than that ok!!???!!

 

[pureflow]

well, for bridal, my charges are from 600-900. if higher, I would ask my partner to go. His rates are from 900-3000.

if my clients asking for cheaper, I would say "No problem!, my assistant can do a good job also... for $250. NEVER shot weddings/actual day before. you want?"

the funniest part is one of my clients actually went for him. they had no comment after that except for regretting paying more for a experience photographer....

 

[TME]

I don't disagree with you. I'm certainly not advocating stupid, irrational actions.

And to borrow a not so ancient quote, "a swallow does not a summer make".

And I'm not sure you were meant to agree with Ian's post either...

Oh no! I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with Ian's post. He's does not seem to be making any judgement on the situation but his posts seems more like a factual one to apprise us (non-pros, freelancers) about the facts of pro photography. In that I appreciate the lucidity and conciseness of the presentation.

 

[Pro Image]

Oh no! I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with Ian's post. He's does not seem to be making any judgement on the situation but his posts seems more like a factual one to apprise us (non-pros, freelancers) about the facts of pro photography. In that I appreciate the lucidity and conciseness of the presentation.

Yahoo........! TME is back with vengence!! :blah:

JED? JED............Where are you when we needed you most....JED.... :sweat:
TME is back..... :sweat: :complain:

 

[TME]

Yahoo........! TME is back with vengence!! :blah:

JED? JED............Where are you when we needed you most....JED.... :sweat:
TME is back..... :sweat: :complain:

Oh come on dude!! U wanted to overtake the U/W thread, no, mon ami?

 

[Pro Image]

Oh come on dude!! U wanted to overtake the U/W thread, no, mon ami?

Just joking!

It's good to have you around so we can learn more.....

Take life less serious! :blah:

Enjoy while you can man.......Going to SITEX?

 

[Larry]

BTW, how does having amateurs or newbies wreck the market? If they are as bad as u say, then they wouldn't find a second assignment... and if u are good, then why worry about them spoiling your market? Afterall, as many have mentioned here, quality will tell and people can appreciate it.... I dun understand the ranting against newbies or amateurs or part timers who offer their less than perfect skills for free or a nominal fee...

oh ok, this reply is a little late considering the sheer number of posts that's already come and gone, but to answer TME's questions, erm i think you got me wrong - i'm not worried at all about being wrecked by low prices or free services. cos my rates are fixed at what i deem to be reasonable for my skills and effort. if someone is willing to undercut me, by all means, all the best to the client. if the work is acceptable to them, then fine, i'm happy for them. i'm not willing to lower my rates just to get some job which doesn't pay me enough (unless in very specific instances of goodwill or pro bono work, which i do totally free, and without consideration for copyright).

all i'm saying is, there's a price for everything. and ultimately if you wanna kill your own market by underpricing yourself, there's only so far you can go. you develop a reputation as a cheap $10/hour photog, you will have a helluva time trying to go past $20 or something which really warrants your time and effort. so like everything in this world, there's cause and effect.

 

[TME]

i think this thread has meandered all over the place from the original post and one reason it became so was that TME disparaged an entire profession.

lastly, TME, if you have have not worn the boots of the wedding photographers who charge "exorbitant" prices, please do not disparage an entire profession with your sweeping statements. if the entire industry decides tomorrow that a studio/outdoor shoot will start from $15,000 and up and actual day packages will start from $7,500 and up, the industry will die a quick and painful death. Market clearing conditions also apply to this segment of the industry and some may decide that a $600 package will suffice while others may want something that they perceive is a little more special. If there are photographers out there able to fulifil this requirement for something a little more special, don't begrudge them their livelihood or from a more abstract perspective, their ability to bring to the masses, the ephemeral beauty of light, shadow, and the decisive moment.

Sorry I have to disagree here. My intention was never to disparage the profession of photography! Hell, I'm a amateur enthusiast myself..... wouldn't that be shooting myself in the foot?!

In any case, the premise of "not being in the shoes of a professional photographer", and so "do not disparage the profession" is faulty at best. There are many things in this world that we do not have experience in and we all know what would happen if we carried out those things. Case in point - we all know that if we jumped off a 10 storey building, we would either die or be severely injured. Anyone has personal experience here to share? So going by your premise of "not being the boots of a pro photographer", then surely if u say that one will die if he/she/it jumped off the 10th storey should not believed or at best is not credible cos the you have not had such an experience before. So what then?

My first post merely stated that I thought pros were overpaid, there was nothing else in that statement other than to express a popular sentiment and what was an erroneous sentiment on my part. I did follow up in a second post asking for more details. In any case, my conclusions now are that if u really need / want pro-taken photos or feel that a pro gives u more value / greater assurance, by all means. It's only that many do not feel the need for such high level of expertise and hence turn to amateurs/part timers who are willing to charge a nominal fee for good/abd/atrocious output.

 

[Pro Image]

Hey guys seriously speaking here........I think you are going back to yesterday's hot topic again. As I said and said again. Call it truce as there will never be ending discussion if you all keep disagreeing. SERIOUSLY SPEAKING HERE.......... :sweat:

Aiyo, everyone has their own opinion but there are some opinions which are agreeable but some are not. Are you all really going back to Stage 1?

Eh you all dun flame me but please remain calm when you press those keyboards............ :mad2: I just feel realy hot in here :flame:

Better go out to check other forums............. :flush:

 

[TME]

oh ok, this reply is a little late considering the sheer number of posts that's already come and gone, but to answer TME's questions, erm i think you got me wrong - i'm not worried at all about being wrecked by low prices or free services. cos my rates are fixed at what i deem to be reasonable for my skills and effort. if someone is willing to undercut me, by all means, all the best to the client. if the work is acceptable to them, then fine, i'm happy for them. i'm not willing to lower my rates just to get some job which doesn't pay me enough (unless in very specific instances of goodwill or pro bono work, which i do totally free, and without consideration for copyright).

all i'm saying is, there's a price for everything. and ultimately if you wanna kill your own market by underpricing yourself, there's only so far you can go. you develop a reputation as a cheap $10/hour photog, you will have a helluva time trying to go past $20 or something which really warrants your time and effort. so like everything in this world, there's cause and effect.

In response, I want to ask if there are pros who significantly undercharge? If so, too bad for them. But I thought the initial problem was with part timers who may produce pretty decent work and charging a pittance compared to what the pros ask for? That would be problem I can see, but you have these in every industry... u just have to live with them I guess...

edit: I change "overcharge" to "undercharge", that was a typo.....

 

[pureflow]

TME is right.. just have to leave with it.. unlike in states or singapore, where they really take advantage of photographers who are without organisation to back them up..

I heard of photographers in states that have clients asking US$300 for all the pictures and copyrights.. when the assistants are already charging $500 per day. and when the photographer used the picture for his poftfolio, he/she got sued by the client cuz the photographer had already given the copyrights to the client. and the client was asking US$10k for copyright infringement.. In singapore, it's not so often where copyrights infringement is of importance. I know of a photographer that sued Lee Kuan Yew for misuse of image, and he won $10k to avoid going to court over it.


well, too all photographers who are charging low rates, be aware that it's hard to increase rates, what clients want to heard is decrease rates, not increase rates. once you increase, the client will leave you for sure and fine someone else who is cheaper than you. based on my experience.

 

[GitS]

In any case, the premise of "not being in the shoes of a professional photographer", and so "do not disparage the profession" is faulty at best. There are many things in this world that we do not have experience in and we all know what would happen if we carried out those things. Case in point - we all know that if we jumped off a 10 storey building, we would either die or be severely injured. Anyone has personal experience here to share? So going by your premise of "not being the boots of a pro photographer", then surely if u say that one will die if he/she/it jumped off the 10th storey should not believed or at best is not credible cos the you have not had such an experience before. So what then?

You are making a fundamental flaw of reasoning here my friend, please do not mix cause and effect with making an educated and informed statement as opposed to an armchair generalization.

Cause: jump off a building, effect: die.

This has nothing to do with what you know intimately about the industry. If I put a driver into a 400bhp race car and ask him to negotiate a mountainous race course flat out, the outcome would not so simple would it? whats different here from jumping off the building? Its because the driver here is an unknown quantity, we do not know if he is your average ah beng or a 3 time WRC winner do we?

 

[Cheesecake]

well, too all photographers who are charging low rates, be aware that it's hard to increase rates, what clients want to heard is decrease rates, not increase rates. once you increase, the client will leave you for sure and fine someone else who is cheaper than you. based on my experience.

this part is true. there's always someone else willing to do the same job at a lower rate.