FZ7 Launch???
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PhantomGTR
New Member
the noise is bad for pana basically, raising the ISO limit will just kill the pic. But if shot at low ISO, its acceptable. :thumbsup:
roadrunner_552
Senior Member
so many ppls bought the fz7. next outing must let me play play leh.
armadillo said:unseen, thanks for viewing
quite happy with FZ7 so far :lovegrin:
Those were very nice n clean pics but I noticed u used very slow shutter speeds. How about some sample pics using handheld in low light conditions. Don't want to carry a tripod wherever I go.
Thanks.
If you're comparing against S3, then FZ7 wins.
I've printed a FZ5 image ISO400 @ 8R size for a small competition, and I won a small prize for it.. I guess either the judges were blind not to see the noise, or it's not really noticable. FZ7 is cleaner than FZ5, so I suppose it's gonna be even better.
As for the S2, the ISO400 images can't be printed at 8R size. They'll look like screencaptures of a movie, very soft and hazy. A orang utan still looks like it got hair @iso400 for the FZ5, but for the S2 the orang utan became a brown patch. No more hair. Think the S3 won't be far off.
Pay extra $200 for a nice looking camera which can't produce sharp images, that's not my game. Go ahead if it makes your day.
If you just want to hear that the Lumix images are noisy, yeah they are. When you actually mature, you'll find that sharpness will end up more important than noise.
I've printed a FZ5 image ISO400 @ 8R size for a small competition, and I won a small prize for it.. I guess either the judges were blind not to see the noise, or it's not really noticable. FZ7 is cleaner than FZ5, so I suppose it's gonna be even better.
As for the S2, the ISO400 images can't be printed at 8R size. They'll look like screencaptures of a movie, very soft and hazy. A orang utan still looks like it got hair @iso400 for the FZ5, but for the S2 the orang utan became a brown patch. No more hair. Think the S3 won't be far off.
Pay extra $200 for a nice looking camera which can't produce sharp images, that's not my game. Go ahead if it makes your day.
If you just want to hear that the Lumix images are noisy, yeah they are. When you actually mature, you'll find that sharpness will end up more important than noise.
airconvent
Senior Member
strange...I thought the dpreviews did noted that the FZ7 is noiser than the FZ5 images.
I noticed this when comparing my new FZ7 images with my ex-FZ5 ones although it is slight.
This stems from the fact that the ccd size is the same (1/2.5") but the megapixel has increased from 5MB to 6MB....
I noticed this when comparing my new FZ7 images with my ex-FZ5 ones although it is slight.
This stems from the fact that the ccd size is the same (1/2.5") but the megapixel has increased from 5MB to 6MB....
airconvent said:
yes, its only slightly noiser, but could hae been better since fz5 was more than a year old, and technology should help to reduce noise more.
i heard that S3 ccd/cmos was better in noise controlling than S2, but from the review that web give, it seems like it still very noisy
Absolute noise yes, FZ7 is slightly noisier. However I don't look at 10% of a image at an time. Maybe only when I'm doing ps.. :bsmilie: I tend to zoom even closer sometimes..airconvent said:
But because of the characteristic of the noise, if you were to look at it at normal human size, say screen size of 1600x1200, much of the noise would be gone due to the interpolating algorithm used to downsize from a full 6MP.
If you were to print 4R... I don't think you can't tell the noise at all..
unseen said:
Bro, no need to be defensive lah I know you love ur pana lot and I am not trying to belittle it. I was ex FZ20 owner also and I liked the cam a lot. Sold it away to upgrade to dslr for more flexibility. Am asking these questions cause I still think lumix series are still good cams despite the noise issue.
Btw, I have seen enough copies of dslr lens to know what sucks and whats sharp.
In the end I BOUGHT the TZ1 as my backup cam. My friend is still thinking about the S3 and FZ7, so want to see what the owners tot abt it.
Lumix is good lah!
metallilan
Senior Member
i printed S8R's with my FZ5 and even though i can still see the noise, the details is still there...still acceptable by me... : something i posted awhile back http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1281/140/1600/P1080826.0.jpg
Coltian2004
Member
bro metallilan,
Really love your work! :thumbsup: Dunno when can I reach that stage.
Really love your work! :thumbsup: Dunno when can I reach that stage.
LOL dude.. you have no idea. I've got zero brand loyalty at all. I'm using a dSLR myself, a 350D same as you. It's not about Lumix good or not. Since you've gone through enough dSLR lenses to know what's sharp, you're better off than me. I got rid of the kit lens without thinking, and bought the sigma 18-50 f2.8.. Meaning all while I've been using a very sharp lens. I assumed it's pretty normal since i moved on from the Lumix cameras, which are all frankly, very sharp without excessive incamera sharpening.happyham said:
Imagine my surprised when I used a 50f1.8, 75-300, a 17-40f4l, 70-200f4l, 17-35f2.8l and I consider them to soft as compared to my 18-50f2.8. After that, I kinda looked down on soft lenses because frankly, i actually get VERY turned off seeing a soft image come out of my camera.
As for noise wise, from my shots for a few school publications/outside websites. If you look at it 100% on computer, noise is not very vesible, BUT.. scaled down to normal screen size + when printed out in papers/magazines (a4/a3 size), 90% of the time you can't tell an ISO1600 image from an ISO100 image. and getting THE image is more important than having less noise.
Seriously, the current worry about noise is as important as the race for megapixels. Esp when most of the people are not going to publish their works in magazines. For some people, they get so caught up in the noise issue, that they'd rather go for less noisy but lousy quality images.
Part of my reply to him is here..
just realise that the new review of the S3 is up. Just went to see see.. Since there wasn't any studio shot done for the FZ7, I can't compare against the studio shot. The studio shot images shouldn't be taken into account due to the unnatural good lighting that studio strobes offer.
Given the noise removal stuff I've learnt so far, grain noise is easier remove. That's the textbook answer. However, that's given that peak values are far and few between. For this case, the S3 has simply too much grain IMHO for effective noise removal.
Colour noise is quite easily removed (VERY VERY effectively) with PS CS2, but you may end up removing some of the colours that's supposed to be there. From then on it's a matter of skill (use of layer mask etc).
facts:
1) FZ7 IS sharper. You can tell by the building outlines. S3 produces hazy lines. Thus,the lens produces soft.
2) at ISO200/ISO400, especially at ISO400 onwards, the noise is so horrible that the edges of the buildings are sorta gone..
3) for basic noise removal, in layman's terms, it's a guessing game. a value is guessed/calculated for each pixel from the surrounding block of maybe 5 x 5 pixels.
4) It's hard to do accurate guessing especially since possibly 1/2 the neighbours in a 5x5 neighbourhood are also noise pixels.
5) In cases where the edges are so diffused, it'll be hard for any noise removal program/algorithm to guess/calculate the correct value for any pixel. (i.e determine if the pixel should be dark or light). You may most prob end up with edges which you cannot USM even.
6) for trying to remove the noise frequency component.. There's nothing periodic about this to remove, at least to me. I'm only an undergraduate. There are possibly some magical ways which I've not learnt about yet. AFAIK, the noise is of a random nature. This won't work out.
Which gives a better result after noise reduction? Which gives less image degradtion? Which is easier to do? You judge for yourself, least you say I'm biased towards one or another brand. If you can come out with better processed images based on the ISO400 crop given at dcresource, do show. I'd wanna learn how to do it.
After simple noise processing, no sharpening done at all:
FZ7 before + after(colour noise removal only)
S3 before + after (remove grain in lab colour, + colour noise removal)
Cheers
airconvent
Senior Member
$684 is very good liao...should take if you really very itchy to buy it like me...
if you have patience, then can wait till next pc show where they will give free memory cards but prices will be higher so you have to weigh the net cost...
anyway, the vga recording is already well worth my upgrade from FZ5 to FZ7!
if you have patience, then can wait till next pc show where they will give free memory cards but prices will be higher so you have to weigh the net cost...
anyway, the vga recording is already well worth my upgrade from FZ5 to FZ7!
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