saifulbahar
Senior Member
Hi codling,
Sincere thanks for the info.
Sincere thanks for the info.
FZ30 Preview & Samples
- Thread starter wkwek
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it is more of the density and design of the sensor, the high pixels count in a given area, the more noise it is. As most DSLR have bigger sensor size (in terms of area), therefore the pixel density in it sensor is less, thus less noise in same ISO & more dynamic range.
http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Camera_System/Sensor_Sizes_01.htm
http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Camera_System/Sensor_Sizes_01.htm
My first impression is it's a DSLR. That indicates a Panasonic DSLR is on the way.
Like the "mechanical" rings, dials and more rounded body. Why give 8mp and noisy image. 5 or 6mp with clean high ISO is what the users need, IMO. No more contact f2.8 :thumbsd: and don't believe they can make up that with higher ISO.
It's a fierce battle ground for Samsung Pro-815 :bsmilie:
Like the "mechanical" rings, dials and more rounded body. Why give 8mp and noisy image. 5 or 6mp with clean high ISO is what the users need, IMO. No more contact f2.8 :thumbsd: and don't believe they can make up that with higher ISO.
It's a fierce battle ground for Samsung Pro-815 :bsmilie:
Caussway said:
Yeah I agree, I rather they take advantage of the larger CCD but with a smaller MP count, like Sony's very good 1/1.8" 7MP CCD which performs very well up to ISO400 as we see it in Olympus C7070WZ and Canon G6. That would have made the FZ30 what it is worth.
With such levels of "noise performace", I hardly call it an upgrade at all and doubt that it will be improved in production samples. Most likely Panasonic will add in some NR algorithm like that of the FZ5 which end up making images have that 'poster colour' effect when using high ISO.
If any of you guys are still interested in the FZ30 but holding back because of the noise issue, Neat Image, Noise Ninja or the new Photoshop CS2 with a new noise-removal function may help. Ya, I know, the best is still low noise level straight out from the camera. This is only a suggestion. So here's a couple of samples. 
Original image here http://img2.dpreview.com/gallery/panasonicfz30_preview/originals/p1000077.jpg
Original image here http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/popup/gallery/models/fz30/P1010423.JPG
Original image here http://img2.dpreview.com/gallery/panasonicfz30_preview/originals/p1000077.jpg
Original image here http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/popup/gallery/models/fz30/P1010423.JPG
My amateur view is, by increasing the sensor size from 1/1.8" to 2/3", and keep the 12x zoom, they will need bigger & longer lens, probably will cause increase in cost as well.ken111111 said:
If not why until now we still don't see any p & s camera with the sensor size of DSLR? I think it's all down to cost, size & user friendliness of the camera.
jbma said:I am looking forward to this FZ30. However so far the noise level is putting me off. Like most people here I want less noise. I don't really care about megapixel. I'll be very happy with 5 Megapixel with a low noise. sigh!
my sentiments, exactly. if only they can use Sony's rather good 7MP 1/1.8" CCD in the FZ30, it will be a real winner.
I've downloaded one of the samples from Panasonic's website (the one with the butterfly) and done the following experiment:
1) resize from 8M to 2M (don't crop)
2) USM
3) Print out 8R size on a canon photo printer
The result: Surprise :bigeyes: no noise, and still retain good details too at 2M print-out
. In fact, I show the print out to one of my friend who was initially very critical of the FZ30 becasue of the noise problem, and he too was surprised by the print-out.
So I guess...noise is not really a problem if you print out :think: . Of course, for the ISO 400 shots I don't think you should go more than 4R to avoid the noise problem.
1) resize from 8M to 2M (don't crop)
2) USM
3) Print out 8R size on a canon photo printer
The result: Surprise :bigeyes: no noise, and still retain good details too at 2M print-out
. In fact, I show the print out to one of my friend who was initially very critical of the FZ30 becasue of the noise problem, and he too was surprised by the print-out.So I guess...noise is not really a problem if you print out :think: . Of course, for the ISO 400 shots I don't think you should go more than 4R to avoid the noise problem.
Using Neat Image or similar tools will either produce pictures with bloggy patches or overly smoothen texture, losing details in the process. I think Panasonic's sensors have come a long way and is still pretty usable at ISO 400, given that the big zoom range. Given another chance to buy Panasonic's camera, I would rather go for other brands as Panasonic still have a long way to go before matching Canon/Sony/Fujifilm performance/quantity ratio. The former's pictures are simply not as clean out of the camera. Only plus points are the big zoom + Leica lense.
Ermz IMHO I think everyone here should be able to back up their statements about the noise thing. It's like counting hair on a chicken, or counting leg hairs on a guy. Minor minor thing.
Let's say I table a bet: Say I get say get any non DSLR (cost must be around the same) sony + canon + fujifilm + panasonic FZ camera of your choice, take the exact same photo @ ISO400, and then print them out 8R. How about this? if u can pick out the panasonic photo I will give u $100, but if u cannot you must give me $10000 and pay for the cost of all the printing.
How many of you would dare to take the bet? To the one who shot his mouth off: theITguy how about you? dare to back your claims?
if you say that the noise issue is so big, I'm sure you can pick out the photo with absolute ease thus you don't even need to worry about losing $10000. Easy way to earn $100 for just a 5 second job. Assuming you're not talking **** because the noise should be so bad that you can pick it up immediately and don't need to observe the photo at close range.
I don't get your thing about Panasonic sensors. Couldn't be that you DIDN'T know 90% of the cameras use sensors from Sony. Fuji has their own super CCD stuff. hmmmmmmmmmm...
Don't be so uptight. Most of the time noise is gone if you actually crop and resize down to usable size for web use. You won't notice it in printouts smaller than 8R and the possibly ocassional A3 size. For those who print bigger than 8R most of the time should be getting a DSLR or a film camera anyway.
Let's say I table a bet: Say I get say get any non DSLR (cost must be around the same) sony + canon + fujifilm + panasonic FZ camera of your choice, take the exact same photo @ ISO400, and then print them out 8R. How about this? if u can pick out the panasonic photo I will give u $100, but if u cannot you must give me $10000 and pay for the cost of all the printing.
How many of you would dare to take the bet? To the one who shot his mouth off: theITguy how about you? dare to back your claims?
if you say that the noise issue is so big, I'm sure you can pick out the photo with absolute ease thus you don't even need to worry about losing $10000. Easy way to earn $100 for just a 5 second job. Assuming you're not talking **** because the noise should be so bad that you can pick it up immediately and don't need to observe the photo at close range.
I don't get your thing about Panasonic sensors. Couldn't be that you DIDN'T know 90% of the cameras use sensors from Sony. Fuji has their own super CCD stuff. hmmmmmmmmmm...
Don't be so uptight. Most of the time noise is gone if you actually crop and resize down to usable size for web use. You won't notice it in printouts smaller than 8R and the possibly ocassional A3 size. For those who print bigger than 8R most of the time should be getting a DSLR or a film camera anyway.
wahhhhhh....I just got my FZ10.....
Japan Official Launch 26 Aug 2005
http://prodb.matsushita.co.jp/product/info.do?pg=04&hb=DMC-FZ30
Japan Official Launch 26 Aug 2005
http://prodb.matsushita.co.jp/product/info.do?pg=04&hb=DMC-FZ30
Nope, using Neat Image or Noise Ninja do not produce pictures with bloggy (I think you meant blotchy) patches or overly smoothen texture if you do it right. Didn't you see my samples here?theITguy said:
But I noticed that using a free PS noise reduction action floating around the net does produce some blotchy images. I tried all three products mentioned and I bought Noise Ninja. The samples above and below are noise-reduced with Noise Ninja.
Yes, I agree with you about losing details in the process of using any noise reduction software and sometimes even in in-camera NR algorithm. But details lost are quite minor most of the time (again, see my samples here) and I would rather loose that little bit of details to see an almost noise-free image than one with full of "small colourful spots" AKA noise!
IMHO, all current digital cameras take noisy photos. It's a matter of which ISO level is the noise noticeable and like Photoshop, noise reduction softwares are just another photographer's tool. Take at look at Noise Ninja's website samples here;
http://www.picturecode.com/nn_samples.htm
Ok, just want to clarify again. Using noise-reduction software is only a suggestion if you die-die must get the FZ30. Hopefully, Panny will fix it before it goes into production! Read that FZ20 users claim that FZ30 noise level is about the same or better than the FZ20 but considering other features, the FZ30 definitely a better model than its predecessor.
Btw, I'm an antique Sony F505 and ageing Fuji S5000 owner looking for a prosumer and may also consider an entry-level DSLR. So I ain't brand loyal....just looking out for something that suits me.
If any one would like a Noise Ninja noise reduced sample/example, please PM me your "noisy" photo and I'll noise-ninja it and send it back to you.
Orginal image here http://img2.dpreview.com/gallery/panasonicfz30_preview/originals/p1000074.jpg
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