Full frame vs Cropped Sensor camera for video

[aikaramba86]

Hi Everyone

My sincere apologies if this topic has been discussed here before.

After much thought, I have decided to take up shooting videos with a DSLR as a hobby. I just love the way videos turn out with a DSLR camera, they are just amazing.

Okay my question. After reading countless articles and teaching myself on the basics of video/photography and cinematography on YouTube, I decided to get my self a camera and was left with the option of either a full frame camera (Canon 5DMII/MII) or cropped sensor camera (Canon 7D or 650D). May I know which would be wiser to get? I know one is many times more expensive then the other but will it be worth the investment or if I should go for cropped sensor camera invest in a good wide angle lens? if so what type of lens can achieve a full sensor camera look (if it's possible ).

What do you think? Do let me know, please be easy on me as i'm really starting to take this seriously as a hobby :angel: .

I look forward to your advice. Thank you!

 

[eleveninth]

does it matter?

if you're watching a video on vimeo/youtube do you know whether they are shooting on FF or crop?

and what is this full sensor camera look you speak of, is there a specific look on dslr video that diffrentiates it?

why not even m43? like the GH2? why were u left with the option of either ff or crop?

 

[Bamboopictures]

It's a valid question especially when the price difference between FF and cropped sensors (APS-C and Micro4/3) is significant. We must remember DSLRs are primarily designed for photography. FF cameras will give you cleaner still images at high ISO. However, the distinction in video quality is not so clear cut as there are many other confounding factor that affects "quality".
Bokeh: This is the primary reason why people choose DSLRs over camcorders. But while the difference in DOF is very apparent between these two class of imagers, it becomes almost impossible to do a fair comparison between a cropped sensor and a full frame camera. To get the same subject size and composition on say, micro4/3 and FF, one would have to use different focal length/lenses, each with their own unique bokeh characteristic.
ISO Noise: Although not solely the result of sensor size, (chip design, codec engine, chip temperature) FF seems to have the edge (before they overheat)
Moire: I've used FF cameras that had terrible moire patterns that I've never seen on any micro4/3. Moire is not the result of sensor size but filters (lack of) and codec.
Dynamic range: This affects quality to a large extent but has nothing to do with sensor size. You can get much better dynamic range on Blackmagic camera than with DSLRs
Temperature characteristics: This gives each brand their unique color signature. Very subjective and personal. Not affected by sensor size. What works for skin tones, may not be suitable for other subjects.

End of the day, the biggest difference is in the ergonomics of lenses/form factor. Micro4/3 lenses are a fraction of size and weight of FF lenses. That's the whole reason why micro4/3 was created in the first place. APS-C lenses potentially can be smaller, but APS-C makers may not want to cannibalise their own line of full frame lenses.

As for choosing between Canon FF and APS-C, the difference you pay is for the earphone jack (but you lose the swivel screen.) Get Sony A99 if you want both - and autofocus as well!

 

[daniyal]

aikaramba86>>> What the other brothers have posted are all valid. They come in different angles.

These are my takes. Based on my personal newbie experiences.

Lens are the guys that help you capture the kind of look, quality, bokeh that you want in your videos. Not the body. Just a guide. Get a FAST LENS. F1.4 will be a good start. Samyang lens also good for starters.

When comes to body, I second to bro eleveninth. When you look at youtube or vimeo, you can't really tell. It is all about composition. For example only. CROP with 35mm, I will be standing at about an arm's length to my fan if I want the fan to fill up screen. With FF, I could be standing less than an arm's length to get the same composition. Just to share. For example, I won't use a FF body to shoot in a bride's room because of the limited space. I will use CROP body.

Which one to get? I would suggest Canon 6D. The moire and aliasing is better than 5DM2. The ISO is of similar capability as 5DM3. That's what my eyes are telling me. I have tried shooting one. I am impressed with the ISO capabilities.

Or, you can stick with what BambooPictures mentioned. Go with Sony A99.

hope it helps you. Make sure your pocket also agrees with your choice. Heheheheh.

 

[aikaramba86]

does it matter?

if you're watching a video on vimeo/youtube do you know whether they are shooting on FF or crop?

and what is this full sensor camera look you speak of, is there a specific look on dslr video that diffrentiates it?

why not even m43? like the GH2? why were u left with the option of either ff or crop?

Hi eleveninth

Thank you for the really quick reply.

I can't really tell if FF or crop sensor was used when I watch in vimeo or youtube but in certain shoots, like in a beach or cityscape it easily gives away what kinda of camera was being being utilized. But then again, I might be wrong cos wide angle lenses can be used, i'm not too sure.

The look I was specifically looking for is the depth of field achieved by a FF camera and the cinematic wide feel.

I did some reading on m43 and GH2 and comparing them with a DSLR, there are many things which cannot be achieved with them.

 

[aikaramba86]

aikaramba86>>> What the other brothers have posted are all valid. They come in different angles.

These are my takes. Based on my personal newbie experiences.

Lens are the guys that help you capture the kind of look, quality, bokeh that you want in your videos. Not the body. Just a guide. Get a FAST LENS. F1.4 will be a good start. Samyang lens also good for starters.

When comes to body, I second to bro eleveninth. When you look at youtube or vimeo, you can't really tell. It is all about composition. For example only. CROP with 35mm, I will be standing at about an arm's length to my fan if I want the fan to fill up screen. With FF, I could be standing less than an arm's length to get the same composition. Just to share. For example, I won't use a FF body to shoot in a bride's room because of the limited space. I will use CROP body.

Which one to get? I would suggest Canon 6D. The moire and aliasing is better than 5DM2. The ISO is of similar capability as 5DM3. That's what my eyes are telling me. I have tried shooting one. I am impressed with the ISO capabilities.

Or, you can stick with what BambooPictures mentioned. Go with Sony A99.

hope it helps you. Make sure your pocket also agrees with your choice. Heheheheh.

Hi daniyal

Hey, thanks bro that actually made alot of sense.

Yes, It did not occur to me that wide angle lenses will do more damage in small spaces. I will read more on the 6D. And if my pocket permits will get one. Thanks a bunch for sharing man! appreciate it

 

[eleveninth]

Hi eleveninth

Thank you for the really quick reply.

I can't really tell if FF or crop sensor was used when I watch in vimeo or youtube but in certain shoots, like in a beach or cityscape it easily gives away what kinda of camera was being being utilized. But then again, I might be wrong cos wide angle lenses can be used, i'm not too sure.

The look I was specifically looking for is the depth of field achieved by a FF camera and the cinematic wide feel.

I did some reading on m43 and GH2 and comparing them with a DSLR, there are many things which cannot be achieved with them.

so... you are saying dof is different on different sensors.

 

[aikaramba86]

It's a valid question especially when the price difference between FF and cropped sensors (APS-C and Micro4/3) is significant. We must remember DSLRs are primarily designed for photography. FF cameras will give you cleaner still images at high ISO. However, the distinction in video quality is not so clear cut as there are many other confounding factor that affects "quality".
Bokeh: This is the primary reason why people choose DSLRs over camcorders. But while the difference in DOF is very apparent between these two class of imagers, it becomes almost impossible to do a fair comparison between a cropped sensor and a full frame camera. To get the same subject size and composition on say, micro4/3 and FF, one would have to use different focal length/lenses, each with their own unique bokeh characteristic.
ISO Noise: Although not solely the result of sensor size, (chip design, codec engine, chip temperature) FF seems to have the edge (before they overheat)
Moire: I've used FF cameras that had terrible moire patterns that I've never seen on any micro4/3. Moire is not the result of sensor size but filters (lack of) and codec.
Dynamic range: This affects quality to a large extent but has nothing to do with sensor size. You can get much better dynamic range on Blackmagic camera than with DSLRs
Temperature characteristics: This gives each brand their unique color signature. Very subjective and personal. Not affected by sensor size. What works for skin tones, may not be suitable for other subjects.

End of the day, the biggest difference is in the ergonomics of lenses/form factor. Micro4/3 lenses are a fraction of size and weight of FF lenses. That's the whole reason why micro4/3 was created in the first place. APS-C lenses potentially can be smaller, but APS-C makers may not want to cannibalise their own line of full frame lenses.

As for choosing between Canon FF and APS-C, the difference you pay is for the earphone jack (but you lose the swivel screen.) Get Sony A99 if you want both - and autofocus as well!

Hi Bamboopictures

Thank you so much for the detailed breakdown. I am weighing given the factors you mentioned above to make the final decision. Like you said its just the ergonomics and not forgetting technique and skills is needed to achieve the right look I believe. I will keep them in mind.

Once again thank you!

 

[aikaramba86]

so... you are saying dof is different on different sensors.

Oh my, Please correct me if i'm wrong. I've had not much practical lessons mostly theory :/

 

[eleveninth]

Oh my, Please correct me if i'm wrong. I've had not much practical lessons mostly theory :/

I can only ask u the questions. I maybe right I maybe wrong who knows.

then u have to google.

I believe you learn better that way.

 

[silvermoon1407]

With regards to dof, m43 with a f/1.4 lens is usually enuff to give u shallow dof. On a FF, u may even go oof.

And since HD is technically 2mp, most cameras can give similar qualities under the same settings, unless u have really discerning eyes. Advantage of ff is better video quality at night due to better iso noise.

Also consider the bulk of dslr when filming handheld. Can you handle the weight?

Shooting at bright daylight usually need nd filter if u want shoot wide open.

All in all, I dun suggest u go into ff before u even get the hang of videography. Start small. Panasonic and sony have good cameras for video (their live view/evf is better than canon)

 

[Sgdevilzz]

You can start off with the simplest DSLR models around like the 600D or D5200 which has incredible video function. Figure out how to use the camera and it's video functions. When you get used to it get standard primes, 35mm and 50mm. In Cinematography, film makers don't use zoom lenses because you won't get perspective shift when zooming. Reason? Because the technique has been so overused, it made it look cheap. It has been blacklisted in the film industry. You can still use them on certain circumstances, just not always.

 

[Sgdevilzz]

aikaramba86>>>

Lens are the guys that help you capture the kind of look, quality, bokeh that you want in your videos. Not the body. Just a guide. Get a FAST LENS. F1.4 will be a good start. Samyang lens also good for starters.

The quality don't just come from the lens. The camera itself plays a huge role too. Video output, color space, sensor size. And sensor size i meant for camcorders

 

[aikaramba86]

You can start off with the simplest DSLR models around like the 600D or D5200 which has incredible video function. Figure out how to use the camera and it's video functions. When you get used to it get standard primes, 35mm and 50mm. In Cinematography, film makers don't use zoom lenses because you won't get perspective shift when zooming. Reason? Because the technique has been so overused, it made it look cheap. It has been blacklisted in the film industry. You can still use them on certain circumstances, just not always.

The quality don't just come from the lens. The camera itself plays a huge role too. Video output, color space, sensor size. And sensor size i meant for camcorders

Hi Sddevilzz

Thank you for your valuable input. I would have to agree with you that perspective shift zoom is really overrated now.

I was thinking of getting the 600 or 650D with the kit lens to explore the features and maybe get a 35mm in the future. I did some research on 35mm lenses and found 2 different ones, one with USM and one without. I kinda figured that a USM one will not be necessary for shooting video as it's best to shot on manual. What do you think?

Thanks is advance

 

[Sgdevilzz]

Hi Sddevilzz

Thank you for your valuable input. I would have to agree with you that perspective shift zoom is really overrated now.

I was thinking of getting the 600 or 650D with the kit lens to explore the features and maybe get a 35mm in the future. I did some research on 35mm lenses and found 2 different ones, one with USM and one without. I kinda figured that a USM one will not be necessary for shooting video as it's best to shot on manual. What do you think?

Thanks is advance

The 35mm USM version costs higher than the camera body you are getting itself. I'm not familiar with canon systems but i assume the other version is the 35mm f2? That is a good lens to start with but if you have the budget to go for the USM version, look into Zeiss Lenses (If you're rich )

If not, i'll get a Nikon lens adapter and get nikon lenses. Clubsnappers sells AI lenses at a cheap price and those glass is good stuff for video

 

[daniyal]

OR you can get Samyang 35mm Lens F1.4. I am using it. My favourite lens at the moment. Reasonably priced. Manual lens.

Sgdevilzz>>> noted on your pointers.

 

[Bamboopictures]

GH3 vs 5D mark III
5D Mark III vs GH3 on Vimeo

 

[Sgdevilzz]

OR you can get Samyang 35mm Lens F1.4. I am using it. My favourite lens at the moment. Reasonably priced. Manual lens.

Sgdevilzz>>> noted on your pointers.

I'm actually looking in to the Samyang cine 35mm T1.5 . The design is the same as rokinon's and the reviews for that isn't bad at all! Samyang, Rokinon, vivitar are the same brand

 

[daniyal]

Sgdevilzz>>> Yes, based on couple of video tests done by other users in the youtube, the quality is good and value for money, in my opinion. Like mine (non-cine), it gives an orange colour cast. Small matter. Can colour correct it in post. $550.00SGD about a year ago.

aikaramba86>>> Hope this video link will give you a clearer picture of CROP vs FF.

 

[XsenseX]

I'm using primarily FF (CamA) + CF (CamB) for most projects.

FF DOF is completely different but its to be use sparingly IMO.

If you are looking for Value for money, the current champion is Nikon 5100, not Gh3. But again, you need to be buying nikon lenses which is tough if you are used to canon systems.

End of the day, if you have a good story to tell and edit them well. Whatever cam is fine if you use it well.

*By the way, Daniyal, 6D is FAR away from 5D3 in terms of video quality, moire & ISO. Its neither here or there so avoid at all costs. Looking at it doesn't work, must go in & edit then you will see the differences.

Cheers