Frightening Situation

[snowspeeder]

There is no recorded evidence, but there is eyewitness evidence.

There was no injury and no ambulance called. As you may have noted above, it was a near miss.

Many crimes are reported and convicted solely based on eyewitness testimony, e.g. molest cases.

If the person reporting it is not to be believed, then why is the police believing the other person, especially the suspect? Aren't both at least equal? If so, wouldn't it warrant further investigation rather than just believing one party over another?

FYI, more info since you apparently think the police did their job well. Initially, due to the fast moving circumstance, only the first letters of the license plate and the number was noted. The last letter was not noted. The colour of the van was noted.

You know what the police told me? "OH you dont have the complete license number, we can't do anything".

It was only after I suggested "why dont you check the vehicle records, see which ones are vans, have license number and first letters correspond, then form there, cross check to see which one match the colour". It was only after I, a layman not in the field of investigations suggesting that, then they went "Oh, okay".

And they promptly came up with one shortlisted registration (after which the whole affair about the asking the owner if they have Indian workers started".

I only expect the police to investigate, not to conclude, but it appears even asking them to investigate is squeezing blood from a stone.

I'm not sure who is the one jumping to conclusions here.

The officer who acted in that way must be inexperienced.
Anyway in molest cases, the victim must be willing to step up and voice out after the crime has been committed. So there is a case.

The near miss incident you mentioned did not result in any injury. Besides, where is the pedestrian? Did he/she lodge a report? Comparing this kind of incidents with a molest case is irrelevant in my opinion.

Let me put it this way. Say I'm the pedestrian crossing the road. A van nearly hit me but sped off. I got a shock but did not notice its plate number, but anyway I decided not to take any action (maybe just curse the stupid driver). Then another person standing nearby sees it and reports the case. Again, in my IMO, when the officer hears this, the info may be passed on to the investigator to decide if this is worth investigating (note that the men in blue are ground officers and they do not go into investigating cases like detectives). Very likely, the investigator will decide not to do anything, maybe just file the report, thats all. And hence, you got the reply from the officer which you did not like to hear.

 

[vince123123]

Yeap, very inexperienced, and I'm not sure if it was merely an isolated incident.

The comparison with a molest case is merely to inform you that recorded evidence is not required to obtain successful conviction, unlike your earlier allusion. Eyewitness testimony is just as important.

Whether or not there is any injury is also irrelevant to the criminal offence being disclosed.

Whether or not the report is lodged by the victim, or a passerby is also irrelevant.

As you said, the investigator "decided not to do anything" and it is clear from how they conducted themselves that they are not really bothered to do anything in the first place.

As a civilian, I do not care how the police force subdivides their divsions into men on the ground, or men in blue, or investigators or the like. Bureacratic shields are not excuses for sloppy delivery. I only know I lodged a police report and that is all that matters.

The officer who acted in that way must be inexperienced.
Anyway in molest cases, the victim must be willing to step up and voice out after the crime has been committed. So there is a case.

The near miss incident you mentioned did not result in any injury. Besides, where is the pedestrian? Did he/she lodge a report? Comparing this kind of incidents with a molest case is irrelevant in my opinion.

Let me put it this way. Say I'm the pedestrian crossing the road. A van nearly hit me but sped off. I got a shock but did not notice its plate number, but anyway I decided not to take any action (maybe just curse the stupid driver). Then another person standing nearby sees it and reports the case. Again, in my IMO, when the officer hears this, the info may be passed on to the investigator to decide if this is worth investigating (note that the men in blue are ground officers and they do not go into investigating cases like detectives). Very likely, the investigator will decide not to do anything, maybe just file the report, thats all. And hence, you got the reply from the officer which you did not like to hear.

 

[garou12]

Yeap, very inexperienced, and I'm not sure if it was merely an isolated incident.

The comparison with a molest case is merely to inform you that recorded evidence is not required to obtain successful conviction, unlike your earlier allusion. Eyewitness testimony is just as important.

Whether or not there is any injury is also irrelevant to the criminal offence being disclosed.

Whether or not the report is lodged by the victim, or a passerby is also irrelevant.

As you said, the investigator "decided not to do anything" and it is clear from how they conducted themselves that they are not really bothered to do anything in the first place.

As a civilian, I do not care how the police force subdivides their divsions into men on the ground, or men in blue, or investigators or the like. Bureacratic shields are not excuses for sloppy delivery. I only know I lodged a police report and that is all that matters.

is the polygraph test admissable in court in singapore?

 

[vince123123]

At that point in time, I made a note to, but in the exigencies of work and time, I lost track of it. Since I was not personally involved and no prejudiced was caused, I didn't bother to pursue this issue as I had better things to do at that time.

What I'll tell you however is another traffic police case where a cab rolled backward from a stationery position and hit my car - in that case, I spent two years back and forth with the cab company, and the traffic police and finally the traffic police issued a letter of warning to the cab driver involved - this was a case where there is no recorded evidence, or injury/damage.

At the end of the day, the police also know how to see when its a minor thing and sweep it under, waiting for it to disappear

did you make a complaint to the higher ups?

 

[vince123123]

I'm not 100% sure, but I doubt it.

Singapore relies on the cross examination method to show up any lies, inconsistency or questionable points in testimony.

is the polygraph test admissable in court in singapore?

 

[garou12]

At that point in time, I made a note to, but in the exigencies of work and time, I lost track of it. Since I was not personally involved and no prejudiced was caused, I didn't bother to pursue this issue as I had better things to do at that time.

What I'll tell you however is another traffic police case where a cab rolled backward from a stationery position and hit my car - in that case, I spent two years back and forth with the cab company, and the traffic police and finally the traffic police issued a letter of warning to the cab driver involved - this was a case where there is no recorded evidence, or injury/damage.

At the end of the day, the police also know how to see when its a minor thing and sweep it under, waiting for it to disappear

big surprise...its like that anywhere...

 

[vince123123]

Hehe, if you're talking abt the sweep and wait for pple to forget, yeap thats a trick used everywhere.

They will wear you down and hope you give up. But for cases requiring attention, I'll do the wearing down on them instead heheh

big surprise...its like that anywhere...

 

[garou12]

Hehe, if you're talking abt the sweep and wait for pple to forget, yeap thats a trick used everywhere.

They will wear you down and hope you give up. But for cases requiring attention, I'll do the wearing down on them instead heheh

We need a Batman! :bsmilie:

 

[snowspeeder]

Yeap, very inexperienced, and I'm not sure if it was merely an isolated incident.

The comparison with a molest case is merely to inform you that recorded evidence is not required to obtain successful conviction, unlike your earlier allusion. Eyewitness testimony is just as important.

Whether or not there is any injury is also irrelevant to the criminal offence being disclosed.

Whether or not the report is lodged by the victim, or a passerby is also irrelevant.

As you said, the investigator "decided not to do anything" and it is clear from how they conducted themselves that they are not really bothered to do anything in the first place.

As a civilian, I do not care how the police force subdivides their divsions into men on the ground, or men in blue, or investigators or the like. Bureacratic shields are not excuses for sloppy delivery. I only know I lodged a police report and that is all that matters.

It does not matter whether you did or did not lodge a report. If they want to go about pursing every single report of alleged criminal offence, they gonna need a lot more manpower and probably neglect even more pending cases. There are literally hundreds of cases like yours everyday of someone seeing something and reporting it. There are more important active cases to attend to.

 

[vince123123]

Well, I guess its the typical "We dont have manpower to handle your case" reason then.

There's no answer to that sort of reason, but the attitude is clear that they do not want to handle the case. Whether they are incompetent, or pretending to be incompetent to mask the real reason, is anybody's guess. To give me a stupid reason like "Oh we don't have the full license plate so we can't do anything", or reasons like "Oh its a civil claim" even when it is not, well it sure shows something is wrong somewhere.

If the police don't have enough manpower, then do the appropriate writeups to get more manpower. That is surely not your concern or my concern. If everyone gives the "Oh no manpower" reason, then nothing and no Government unit will ever have to do anything.

My van incident is just one of many stories that I know of. How about the girl getting beaten up by boy case? What about the clear hurt (reclassified as grevious hurt only after Forum papers were published) cases that went unanswered? Yea, I know, the police only have sufficient manpower to solve high profile cases like Huang Na, and then putting it all over crime watch for positive publicity, and not enough manpower for any other types of cases.

I notice a slow switch from a "no recorded evidence" to "inexperienced" to "investigator chooses his cases" and now finally "no manpower".

It does not matter whether you did or did not lodge a report. If they want to go about pursing every single report of alleged criminal offence, they gonna need a lot more manpower and probably neglect even more pending cases. There are literally hundreds of cases like yours everyday of someone seeing something and reporting it. There are more important active cases to attend to.

 

[snowspeeder]

Well, I guess its the typical "We dont have manpower to handle your case" reason then.

There's no answer to that sort of reason, but the attitude is clear that they do not want to handle the case. Whether they are incompetent, or pretending to be incompetent to mask the real reason, is anybody's guess. To give me a stupid reason like "Oh we don't have the full license plate so we can't do anything", or reasons like "Oh its a civil claim" even when it is not, well it sure shows something is wrong somewhere.

If the police don't have enough manpower, then do the appropriate writeups to get more manpower. That is surely not your concern or my concern. If everyone gives the "Oh no manpower" reason, then nothing and no Government unit will ever have to do anything.

My van incident is just one of many stories that I know of. How about the girl getting beaten up by boy case? What about the clear hurt (reclassified as grevious hurt only after Forum papers were published) cases that went unanswered? Yea, I know, the police only have sufficient manpower to solve high profile cases like Huang Na, and then putting it all over crime watch for positive publicity, and not enough manpower for any other types of cases.

I notice a slow switch from a "no recorded evidence" to "inexperienced" to "investigator chooses his cases" and now finally "no manpower".

If only they can just get what they suggest for more manpower and get it....I'm afraid you're not aware how things really work in there; hence leading to your general perception of 'how they should do their job' and their 'incompetency and excuses'. I do agree that you may be partly right in some cases, though there's another side of the coin that you (and the general public) can't see; and will only appreciate the situation if you've had the opportunity to experience life in the force.

I've got this friend who's a lawyer (who had this childhood ambition of becoming a police officer but decided on being a litigation lawyer instead). Years ago he signed up to be a volunteer police officer. He's view of things changed after having experienced his share of life in the field. It is a significant paradigm shift from what he as a civilian perceived initially.

IMO, it is impossible for them to meet everyone's demands and expectations. I gather this from my reservist cycles where I get to observe their every move and limitations in various situations.

 

[redstone]

I hear gals/ladies screams very often here in the forest Mandai, like 10mins from the columbrium. So often, I won't even bother to look because I'd only see nothing. I learn to ignore it, if I'm to call the police, I think they'd arrest me instead of false report

Wah scary... :sweat:wonder if its human :faint:

 

[jsbn]

I totally disagree with this. I dialled 999 for an abduction (and rape victim). The nearby police took 20min to respond. In the end, the Japanese man took the girl away. The police arrived, I told them the hp as evidence on the floor which i did not touch. One of the police used his bare hands, picked up the phone and slipped the phone into his pocket and said thanks. How about 'CSI' procedures on handling evidences (ie fingerprints?)? Its only a show in usa. We are in Asia, remember? And by the way, I learned criminology (in the states) and am fully aware the case was totally screwed.

Abduction & rape victim?

And you simply stood there to 'see show' instead of rendering assistance and locking the chap in a submission hold at least until police arrive? :dunno:

 

[jsbn]

What i said was a true account. Let me provide more details since some had asked if this was BS.

As I was walking on the street pass midnight, about to collect my car from a Maxwell House, I saw a lady, pissed drunk on the floor, murmuring some thai words mixed with Mandarin with words saying "help." I went forward, bent down and asked her if she needed help, she nod her head and grip my hand. I called the police immediately. Then, a big size japanese man came rushing forward and shouted "bagaru" at me repeatedly. [I know what that word meant as do have japanese friends]. He chased me, i ran. After a short 200m, he stopped, I stopped. I walked back to the crime scene. He chased me again when he saw me and this happened to me 3 times. I tried to buy time by doing this.

During that short phase (after the first chase), an old security guard of maxwell house came out. I told him what had happened. When he saw the japanese running like a freak and chasing me, the security guard quickly went back into the building to hide.

I outran the japanese man each time. Eventually, I hid behind a small bush (URA Centre) after the last chase and he drove his honda civic over (which was parked nearby). I called 999 3 times begging the police to come. The nearest police station was 5 min drive from maxwell house. The last I saw was the man pushed the lady into the car hastily and sped off. I did not get to see the license plate as I was directly opposite (perpendicularly) the car and I was on the phone with 999 then with a lady operator.

The police arrived after 20 min or so (from the time I called 999). I tried my best to buy time, but the police took so long. When the two male policemen arrived, I handed my IC and told him the incident. I asked them why they took so long, they said they were quite busy (at 3am). I told them there was one white high heel left on the floor plus a hp left by the lady (victim) at the crime scene - at the entrance of maxwell house carpark. One police came forward, picked up the HP and slipped into his right pants pocket. I asked him if he needed to collect the high heel. He said thats not important! I was speechless...

What I saw should not be a husband and wife episode as the man looked very frantic and chased me several times shouting vulgarities at me. He had to push the lady into the car. I wouldn't treat my spouse or my daughter this way. Also, the two evidences left on the floor was not something I would leave behind if I were to send my spouse home.

I admit this episode being abduction is what I conclude. But when I saw the police handling evidence that way, I gave up. I thank them for coming, offered them I would stand witness to the case, and went home peacefully. After 4 yrs, I have not received a call from the police regarding this case. I assumed (again) either they did great paperwork or pretty much screwed up the case. It does not bother me as I did my best as a passer by; whatever happened after that was police case and not for me to interfere.

If anyone feel i am telling **** and bull story here, I would not mind meet him in person and go to a nearby police station to verify the case. This is how firm I stand on my facts.

But why I post this is just to tell everyone here that we should do our part in this society. Whether who screw up after which should not be for us to interfere as we had done our very best. I hope I made my points clear.

Thanks!

Pretty interesting.

But then again, why did u not try to fight him and waited for the police to arrive before THREE of you give your statements?

Seriously, don't depend on old security guards to pull out a baton and beat the crap out of whoever's threatening you. In this crazy society, its either u retaliate, stand there get trashed or run.

 

[vince123123]

Alright then, from your account, we can now conclude that your view is that the police's reasons for not taking up cases is just a matter of insufficient manpower - all the reasons given for civil case, can't pursue without license plate, domestic dispute, etc are all intended to be a smokescreen to mask the real problem, that is, not enough policemen. Everything else are just symptoms of that root problem.

If the real problem is indeed manpower as you have alluded, perhaps it may be better to just tell the civilians who file reports the real reason and not cook up stories just to cover up the lack of manpower. I'm sure if the police come right out and say "We dont have manpower, you hvae to wait", better progress will be made. Right now complaints by the public are all directed at these cooked up reasons and not addressing the real problem. If there is sufficient public pressure, the government may reconsider deploying more men to fill the manpower issues you are telling us about.

If only they can just get what they suggest for more manpower and get it....I'm afraid you're not aware how things really work in there; hence leading to your general perception of 'how they should do their job' and their 'incompetency and excuses'. I do agree that you may be partly right in some cases, though there's another side of the coin that you (and the general public) can't see; and will only appreciate the situation if you've had the opportunity to experience life in the force.

I've got this friend who's a lawyer (who had this childhood ambition of becoming a police officer but decided on being a litigation lawyer instead). Years ago he signed up to be a volunteer police officer. He's view of things changed after having experienced his share of life in the field. It is a significant paradigm shift from what he as a civilian perceived initially.

IMO, it is impossible for them to meet everyone's demands and expectations. I gather this from my reservist cycles where I get to observe their every move and limitations in various situations.

 

[contaxable]

Abduction & rape victim?

And you simply stood there to 'see show' instead of rendering assistance and locking the chap in a submission hold at least until police arrive? :dunno:

Tell me, would you put up a fight with a stranger after calling the police? I am not a cowboy you know. You may be one of the men in blue, but I am not. I do not take the law into my hands.

 

[contaxable]

Pretty interesting.

But then again, why did u not try to fight him and waited for the police to arrive before THREE of you give your statements?

Seriously, don't depend on old security guards to pull out a baton and beat the crap out of whoever's threatening you. In this crazy society, its either u retaliate, stand there get trashed or run.

I made a choice not to get trashed on. I did not walk away from the scene. It was my decision at the point of time.

And, I do not like to fight if given a choice. This is the discipline I learned thru my training.


I was once physically assaulted and I remained still and smiled. I suffered no visible injury as it was a mild attack (the attacker had no balls). When I reported the case to the police, the police officer taught me how to sue the attacker as they felt it was the best way. I laughed at that instance.

I chose not sue that man. I went by a different route to solve the case. I was happy with the ending. :bsmilie:

 

[sORe-EyEz]

Tell me, would you put up a fight with a stranger after calling the police? I am not a cowboy you know. You may be one of the men in blue, but I am not. I do not take the law into my hands.

wise choice, y take such risk when e odds dun look so gd. mayb if u beat him to a pulp u may end up w/ an un-necessary law suit. here oso not kampong, if e men in blue cant keep e lid on situations u dun hav to. they're not VWO u kno! :sweat:

 

[jsbn]

I made a choice not to get trashed on. I did not walk away from the scene. It was my decision at the point of time.

And, I do not like to fight if given a choice. This is the discipline I learned thru my training.


I was once physically assaulted and I remained still and smiled. I suffered no visible injury as it was a mild attack (the attacker had no balls). When I reported the case to the police, the police officer taught me how to sue the attacker as they felt it was the best way. I laughed at that instance.

I chose not sue that man. I went by a different route to solve the case. I was happy with the ending. :bsmilie:

Its good for you that you'd made a choice, a calm one perhaps. :thumbsup:

It eventually boils down to individual mentality I guess. Perhaps your thought would be to remain standing still, but unfortunately, when I'm physically intimidated, threatened or attacked, my instinct's to move to restrain. If the chap's carrying a weapon, take him down instantly, THEN restraint him. If I were to wait for the police, I guess I'd be dead if its classified as a 'non-seizable offence'.

 

[sammy888]

wise choice, y take such risk when e odds dun look so gd. mayb if u beat him to a pulp u may end up w/ an un-necessary law suit. here oso not kampong, if e men in blue cant keep e lid on situations u dun hav to. they're not VWO u kno! :sweat:

Hypothetically speaking only okay..can I know what be your and others reaction to this.

What if the girl being assualted was your girlfriend, sister, mother or even a male family member? Would you also reason it out with yourself that better one family member then two get beaten up so you should avoid pyhsical means to prevent it and just let him beat the victim up?

Or if you did have the inclination to come to their aid only because she/he is "family" then you would risk life and limb to prevent, save or protect?

There is really, morally speaking, nothing wrong with taking or not taking action here as we all have to make up our own mind and answer to ourselves for it in a tense heat of the moment situation. But I just want your comment on this.