FOC event - Advice on lens, and shooting conditions needed

[clive]

mmm..to make life easier during the FOC, u can try this "standard event covering setting"


1. ISO 400 all the way. compensate accordingly if u ever need more shutter speed. (digital can compensate via ISO, last time when using film i compensated via exposure compensation -1 stop)

2. aperture priority mode all the way. becoz ur lense are slow, the idea is to emphasise on the aperture and kep a constant check that the shutter speed doesnt dip too low

3. wide lens: use f5.6 all the way for optimal balance betweenDOF and shutter speed

4.telephoto lens: shoot wide open all the way

5.flash just mount, on, chagre ready, TTL and just fire. ensure it is within the D70's x-sync speed

6. matrix metering all the way. when u encounter backlight...then meter at a neutral tone, AE lock, go back to subject, AF again then shoot with the flash as fill in

7. to capture sneak shots in the dead of the night:
(i) manual exposure mode
(ii) set f5.6 for optimal balance between DOF and exposure
(iii) set shutter speed to 1/30
(iv)ISO 1600
(v)on the flash and set to -1 n1/2 stop.
(vi) set the AF to manual focus, prefocus at say 3 to 10m, depends on where your ghost/subject is
(vii) follow them play the games...once u see the ghost/joker/whatever subject, just fire. then u should be able to roughly expose for the subject in the darkness.

 

[Adzz]

BSC - Biological Science Club

the royalty issue. most sub-comm have a sense of belonging to the camp and most of them dont really mind working without royalties for the benefit of a successful and memorable camp

photo sales. sale of photos are a source of income for the next camp. but you can't really charge an unreasonable fee. digital users tend to "spoil" the market by offering free photos on cd. another problem with cd is you can copy burn them. so you cant really sell photos on cd.

Yea, the royalty issue does not apply here. Hehe... After all, as what you said, we have a sense of belonging to the camp. The photo sales issue will be discussed again, but if they intend to burn on CD, I will voice my opinion, and whether they carry out or not, up to them already. My suggestion is to wash a set of digital photos, then ask the publicity side to sell it. That will not be my job though. Hehe... My task very simple, go to FOC, snap, touch up using PS, and pass back to them.

So Merv, what camera will you and your sub comms be using? Since your FOC is from 5-10 July and mine from 6-9 July, there is a very high chance we might be able to see each other. Hehe.

 

[Adzz]

mmm..to make life easier during the FOC, u can try this "standard event covering setting"


1. ISO 400 all the way. compensate accordingly if u ever need more shutter speed. (digital can compensate via ISO, last time when using film i compensated via exposure compensation -1 stop)

2. aperture priority mode all the way. becoz ur lense are slow, the idea is to emphasise on the aperture and kep a constant check that the shutter speed doesnt dip too low

3. wide lens: use f5.6 all the way for optimal balance betweenDOF and shutter speed

4.telephoto lens: shoot wide open all the way

5.flash just mount, on, chagre ready, TTL and just fire. ensure it is within the D70's x-sync speed

6. matrix metering all the way. when u encounter backlight...then meter at a neutral tone, AE lock, go back to subject, AF again then shoot with the flash as fill in

7. to capture sneak shots in the dead of the night:
(i) manual exposure mode
(ii) set f5.6 for optimal balance between DOF and exposure
(iii) set shutter speed to 1/30
(iv)ISO 1600
(v)on the flash and set to -1 n1/2 stop.
(vi) set the AF to manual focus, prefocus at say 3 to 10m, depends on where your ghost/subject is
(vii) follow them play the games...once u see the ghost/joker/whatever subject, just fire. then u should be able to roughly expose for the subject in the darkness.

Hi Clive, thanks for the advice!

Some stuffs I dun quite understand. What do you mean by exposure compensation -1 stop when using ISO400. What is the effect of this?

For wide lens (will be using kit lens), will F5.6 be able to capture both clear fg and bg, or it depends on the distance b/w the 2 of them?

For my SB24 Flash, I think I am able to use it on P,M,A,S mode. I guess I just want the flash. Hehe... max shutter speed is 500, I guess it is sync already. Cannot TTL, I just put my flash to auto, and tried out some shots yesterday. Think the cam does the job perfectly.

The last part for night shots, you were saying to boost ISO to 1600, but if flash, is it neccessary? I was thinking of 800? But of coz, the exact setting will depends on ground conditions. Also, what is meant by "set to -1 n1/2 stop in (7v)"?

Hehe, sorry for this long string of questions. ;p Still quite blur about terms and workings of the camera.

Thanks!

 

[mervlam]

Yea, the royalty issue does not apply here. Hehe... After all, as what you said, we have a sense of belonging to the camp. The photo sales issue will be discussed again, but if they intend to burn on CD, I will voice my opinion, and whether they carry out or not, up to them already. My suggestion is to wash a set of digital photos, then ask the publicity side to sell it. That will not be my job though. Hehe... My task very simple, go to FOC, snap, touch up using PS, and pass back to them.

So Merv, what camera will you and your sub comms be using? Since your FOC is from 5-10 July and mine from 6-9 July, there is a very high chance we might be able to see each other. Hehe.

which hall is BS camp staying in?

camera ah??? we got a small mixed force of Canon DSLRs and SLRs (mainly EOS 30, 300D and 10D, ProI)

 

[clive]

Some stuffs I dun quite understand. What do you mean by exposure compensation -1 stop when using ISO400. What is the effect of this?

For wide lens (will be using kit lens), will F5.6 be able to capture both clear fg and bg, or it depends on the distance b/w the 2 of them?


The last part for night shots, you were saying to boost ISO to 1600, but if flash, is it neccessary? I was thinking of 800? But of coz, the exact setting will depends on ground conditions. Also, what is meant by "set to -1 n1/2 stop in (7v)"?

(i) ISO400 is just an "average value" that works fine no matter indoors or outdoors.
the "exposure compensation deliberately set to -1 stop" is a method i use when i realise im at the brink of impending camera shake, whether due to low light or not wide enough aperture or stc. this trick is used in very low light situations eg outdoors at night/inside a pub/etc to squeeze out a bit more shutter speed so as to avoid camera shake, at the expense of the picture getting underexposed by one stop. the rationale is that since it is already a very low light situation, an underexposure of 1 stop will not really make it look that bad either. (u must be able to visualise the effect in order to agree to this. )

(ii) f5.6 is also just "an average value" that works fin say "90% of the time". like what u mentioned, in some cases, the "ground conditions" may vary.

(iii) the last part on shooting jokers in the middle of the night. u will be in "no-light" situation which is worse than "low-light". the dailing down of flash power by -1 & half stop is just again an "average setting" so as not to have too much lighting in the picture coz its supposed to be a scene in the middle of the night, and yet balanced enough to have just enough flash light to light up the subject so that the viewer can see the subject rather well i nthe final picture. whether ISO 800 or ISO 1600, whether dail down by -1 n a half stop or by -2 stops..its all up to u do decide. but the values are roughly there already ;-)

 

[Adzz]

which hall is BS camp staying in?

camera ah??? we got a small mixed force of Canon DSLRs and SLRs (mainly EOS 30, 300D and 10D, ProI)

I have no idea which hall we will be staying. How about yours?

Wah. Your small mixed force very powerful. Hehe!

 

[mervlam]

I have no idea which hall we will be staying. How about yours?

Wah. Your small mixed force very powerful. Hehe!

hall 6.

no lah... where got powerful? a bunch of newbies also.

 

[mervlam]

Hi Clive, thanks for the advice!

Some stuffs I dun quite understand. What do you mean by exposure compensation -1 stop when using ISO400. What is the effect of this?

For wide lens (will be using kit lens), will F5.6 be able to capture both clear fg and bg, or it depends on the distance b/w the 2 of them?

The last part for night shots, you were saying to boost ISO to 1600, but if flash, is it neccessary? I was thinking of 800? But of coz, the exact setting will depends on ground conditions. Also, what is meant by "set to -1 n1/2 stop in (7v)"?

using exposure compensation of -1 on digital camera will also cause the underexposure of the photo. i would rather not use exposure compensation

F5.6. it depends on the distance b/w the 2 of them and your distance to them. mostly, it's sufficient for small grp shots.

if you are using flash in relative darkness, i see no point in using ISO 1600, since any amount of flash seems blinding to "jokers" (in this case, you are reminded that these jokers are also your friends and you shouldnt use the raw power of the flash to blind them :nono: ). ISO 800 is more than sufficient.

set flash power to -1/2 or 1 has the effect of underexposing the shots again. i would rather not use it.

it seems that Clive enjoys producing underexposed shots :think:

 

[Adzz]

Thanks Merv and Clive, both of you have different opinions towards playing around with exposure settings.

I just tried out using exposure compensation. Guess Clive is concerned with increasing shutter speed so as to prevent blurness in the image. As told, I set the -1 setting, and hence increasing the shutter speed, and one at 0 compensation while the shutter speed is slower. Apparently, both results in almost the same image.

Sorry, but why when i decrease exposure to -1, the shutter speed can be set higher? I thought exposure at -1, less light come in, so must decrease shutter speed to say 1/8 from 1/16 secs for example.

I am considering getting a Omnibounce for this SB24, again, it is necessary for group shots or shots taken at night? I guess the light source comes from the hall buildings and street lamps.

Merv: Hall 6... Its near SRC izzit?

 

[juzthin]

Sorry, but why when i decrease exposure to -1, the shutter speed can be set higher? I thought exposure at -1, less light come in, so must decrease shutter speed to say 1/8 from 1/16 secs for example.

Merv: Hall 6... Its near SRC izzit?

correct me if i'm wrong. Decrease exposure to -1 means you're telling the camera to producing a pic that's under-exposed by 1 stop. You need less light to do that, hence, you can increase your shutter speed.

Yes, hall 6 is next to SRC. It is NOT next to hall 5 or 7. NTU has a weird numbering system :bsmilie:

 

[Adzz]

Sounds logical too.

Hall 7 and 3 is the most out-of -the-way halls IMO

 

[UY79]

using exposure compensation of -1 on digital camera will also cause the underexposure of the photo. i would rather not use exposure compensation

F5.6. it depends on the distance b/w the 2 of them and your distance to them. mostly, it's sufficient for small grp shots.

if you are using flash in relative darkness, i see no point in using ISO 1600, since any amount of flash seems blinding to "jokers" (in this case, you are reminded that these jokers are also your friends and you shouldnt use the raw power of the flash to blind them :nono: ). ISO 800 is more than sufficient.

set flash power to -1/2 or 1 has the effect of underexposing the shots again. i would rather not use it.

it seems that Clive enjoys producing underexposed shots :think:

So what would you use? Basically, I think you should review some of things you are stating here. They are not technically correct.

Cheers!

 

[mervlam]

So what would you use? Basically, I think you should review some of things you are stating here. They are not technically correct.

Cheers!

ok.... in what way?

 

[UY79]

ok.... in what way?

First, as mentioned by Clive, shooting with -1 stop exposure compensation to get better shutter speed is a technic commonly used when equipment does not allow for acceptable shutter speeds. Push process for film and levelling for digital shots are done to correct the photos. If you don't use it, hand shake or motion blur sets in, it may ruin your photo, unless that is what you want to capture.

Second, using higher ISO means lesser flash power is required. In your case, the difference between ISO1600 and ISO800 is 1 stop. This translate to ISO1600 requiring only half the amount of flash exposure in ISO800. And thus making it less blinding and save more of the flash's batteries.

Without flash compensation, the end result is usually strong harsh flash in the photo. In total darkness, some camera has the tendancy of over-exposing as the dark background may fool the TTL sensor. So shooting with -ve flash compensation should give you better results.

Cheers!

 

[mervlam]

First, as mentioned by Clive, shooting with -1 stop exposure compensation to get better shutter speed is a technic commonly used when equipment does not allow for acceptable shutter speeds. Push process for film and levelling for digital shots are done to correct the photos. If you don't use it, hand shake or motion blur sets in, it may ruin your photo, unless that is what you want to capture.

i'm a film user and pushing may not be economically viable. that's when you use flash. if not allowed, then use higher ISO films or not shoot at all. and if you noticed, levelling in PS introduces noise as well (it's similar to upping the ISO on digicams) i rather expose the shots correctly on camera. with regards to handshake, it's time to develop a proper handholding technique.

Second, using higher ISO means lesser flash power is required. In your case, the difference between ISO1600 and ISO800 is 1 stop. This translate to ISO1600 requiring only half the amount of flash exposure in ISO800. And thus making it less blinding and save more of the flash's batteries.

i agree. but keep bear in mind that most ISO 1600 images are noisy and mostly unuseable. if you power down your flash, it's going to be worsen off - more underexposed

Without flash compensation, the end result is usually strong harsh flash in the photo. In total darkness, some camera has the tendancy of over-exposing as the dark background may fool the TTL sensor. So shooting with -ve flash compensation should give you better results.

ok... but i haven't faced any of this kind of problems when used with bounced flash. pls dont tell me you want to flashbang your friends dilated eyes with direct flash

 

[UY79]

i'm a film user and pushing may not be economically viable. that's when you use flash. if not allowed, then use higher ISO films or not shoot at all. and if you noticed, levelling in PS introduces noise as well (it's similar to upping the ISO on digicams) i rather expose the shots correctly on camera. with regards to handshake, it's time to develop a proper handholding technique.

Hand-holding technic does not account for subject movement. Even if you mount your camera on a tripod, if the shutter speed is insufficient, it will still be blur. Then again, if you are talking about flash exposure in darkness, this will be irrelevant, as the shutter speed will be the duration of the flash burst.

i agree. but keep bear in mind that most ISO 1600 images are noisy and mostly unuseable. if you power down your flash, it's going to be worsen off - more underexposed

If they are unuseable, why are they still being produced?!?! Geez.... Powering down the flash is to reduce the chances of overexposure. Most shots in the dark turn out to be to deer in the headlight. This is because the meters are fooled by the dark surrounding. Unless you can spot meter in the dark with people running around playing silly games.

ok... but i haven't faced any of this kind of problems when used with bounced flash. pls dont tell me you want to flashbang your friends dilated eyes with direct flash

Bounce?!?! In a dark wide open area?!? What size of bounce card do you intend to use? Not to mention how many sets of batteries you need to carry with you.

 

[mervlam]

Hand-holding technic does not account for subject movement. Even if you mount your camera on a tripod, if the shutter speed is insufficient, it will still be blur. Then again, if you are talking about flash exposure in darkness, this will be irrelevant, as the shutter speed will be the duration of the flash burst.

ok... point conceded

If they are unuseable, why are they still being produced?!?! Geez.... Powering down the flash is to reduce the chances of overexposure. Most shots in the dark turn out to be to deer in the headlight. This is because the meters are fooled by the dark surrounding. Unless you can spot meter in the dark with people running around playing silly games.

ever printed out a 4R shot with ISO 1600 IMAGE? I PERSONALLY dislike it.

i had mentioned in the above post that i never had those deer in headlight shots WITHOUT powering down my flash.

I just tried out using exposure compensation. Guess Clive is concerned with increasing shutter speed so as to prevent blurness in the image. As told, I set the -1 setting, and hence increasing the shutter speed, and one at 0 compensation while the shutter speed is slower. Apparently, both results in almost the same image.

read: almost the same image. remember you are not shooting for competition where exposure control is very impt.

Bounce?!?! In a dark wide open area?!? What size of bounce card do you intend to use? Not to mention how many sets of batteries you need to carry with you.

Friend.... pls dont protray me as an idiot. which photog uses bounce card / omnibounce in the open? :what: i'm talking about indoor games lah :bsmilie:

 

[clive]

wo wo relax relax..the suggested settings are just some rough ideas to let Adzz play around with...the safety concern that merv highlighted (taking care not to let the flashlight blind the friends who r playing around in total darkness) shld be noted too. :thumbsup:

in that case, for the sake of safety, we should amend the shooting method to: cover the flash with some diffusing material, set flash power to -2 stop, and tilt the flash head up, when shooting in the total darkness scenario. so as to create a mild "barebulb in the sky" effect. and if this is still deemed not safe enough..then just dont use the flash

 

[2100]

After reading so many ding-dong msgs, just relax shoot and have fun lor....

We have sold more than 15k ISO1600 images of a celebrity on 4R.... :bsmilie: Personal perferences do count, but just to let you guys know about acceptability of noise in prints in reality. I think with Adzz's D70, ISO1600 is ok due to the nature of noise. If got time, use Neatimage. :thumbsup:

 

[Zerstorer]

ever printed out a 4R shot with ISO 1600 IMAGE? I PERSONALLY dislike it.

It may depend on how the image is exposed. I've printed ISO1600 film before and they can be pretty good when well exposed.

As for ISO1600 on the D70 that Adzz is using, I can vouch that they are well capable of good 4R prints that are sale-worthy.