First Rumours of Panny G5 and GF5

[Agrivar]

Well, I guess many others don't think IBIS is a must even for m4/3:
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/four-thirds-standard-4-3-m43/1021978-my-choice-m4-3-body.html

Honestly if you have good technique and fast enough SS.. no need for IBIS. I regularly shoot with the 4/3 oly 14-54 mk 2 on my GH2. No IS. Also with my 20mm & 45mm. No IS. Does it mean i get lousy photos? Nope.. its more the person behind the camera.. lol..
Would i love the 14-54 on the em5 with IBIS? You betcha. Do I think the EM5 is as good in video as the GH2? Nope. So i'll stick with the GH2 I think.. until i see the specs of the GH3.. rumoured to be announced at Photokina (Apr).

 

[cromdeg]

Well, I guess many others don't think IBIS is a must even for m4/3:
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/four-thirds-standard-4-3-m43/1021978-my-choice-m4-3-body.html

I agree it's not a must, but the benefits of having one is real and substantiated. I guess it comes down to whether the added expense is worth it. To me, it's well worth the extra cost, considering that you get the benefits every time you use your camera.

My thinking here is that, If you have the extra cash, in a world where there exists a m4/3 camera with IBIS, why settle for one without?

 

[jamestan75]

I've been using Pentax dSLR ever since they released the first one: *istD, stll using K5 and K-01 now, I know how much IBIS can do But I (and probably many others here) bought into m4/3 for their compact size and light weight so I can carry them everywhere, especially w/ kids and family together. When taking kids or people photos, IBIS isn't really that important (at least to me). When I choose a m4/3 camera, IBIS won't be a very important factor. It's good to have, but can be managed w/o

Since G5 is the next gen of G3 (let's assume so), I'm sure it'd have an improved sensor and some enhance features too. Those might be more important to me than IBIS and weather seal (which I already have in my Pentax).

Honestly if you have good technique and fast enough SS.. no need for IBIS. I regularly shoot with the 4/3 oly 14-54 mk 2 on my GH2. No IS. Also with my 20mm & 45mm. No IS. Does it mean i get lousy photos? Nope.. its more the person behind the camera.. lol..
Would i love the 14-54 on the em5 with IBIS? You betcha. Do I think the EM5 is as good in video as the GH2? Nope. So i'll stick with the GH2 I think.. until i see the specs of the GH3.. rumoured to be announced at Photokina (Apr).

yes, IBIS may not be needed, but you certainly appreciate it under low light and using longer focal length.

 

[vainqueur]

I've read a few photography books when I was starting out, and the first tip they'd give you to get tack sharp photos is to use a tripod.
But since we won't always have a tripod with us, I feel that having an image stabilization mechanism is the next best thing, . IBIS is better still

I agreed. Besides, not all places allow you to set up a tripod. Especially holiday when there are always tons of people around, where got space to setup. Like when I went to Egypt, they will charge you extra if you want to bring your tripod into those attraction, some don't even allow you to set it up.

Another example, Keppel Bay @ Marina, they will chase you out if you set up tripod.

 

[Gulliver]

True to the point. If you're taking pictures of running kids or family shot (which taken spontaneously). IBIS is not much of a use at all but large aperture yes. By the way, it is quite unfair to compare between EM5 and G5. The weather sealing and magnesium alloy body is already way much ahead of competition (where it applied to the price as well).

By the way, does anyone experience failed IBIS in a camera body? I do wonder sometimes whether that a camera body can last longer without IBIS. As the IBIS contribute to much mechanical movement into the camera (other than the shutter).

 

[rhema83]

Ha, so unfair! That's only partly true for the market la! Since when has Sony won over Canon and Nikon because of their IBIS?

I swear, if IBIS is the catch all for everything Canon and Nikon would never have dominated, but hey they do...

Canon and Nikon were dominating the camera market even before IBIS or digital cameras were invented. Many professionals and enthusiasts already owned a collection of excellent Canon or Nikkor lenses when the digital revolution came. Thus when the big two introduced their DSLRs with backward lens compatibility (with EF and F mounts respectively), it was natural for their users to continue with their existing systems which they had heavily invested in.

On the other hand, Olympus and Panasonic are on almost equal footing in the micro-4/3 market. The 4/3 system is relatively new and the micro-4/3 is even newer. Both of them are not backward compatible with any legacy system (adapters aside). Although Olympus entered the 4/3 market first and developed some awesome Zuiko Digital lenses, they are quite large and do not attract users who buy into m4/3 for its small form factor. So the advantage Olympus has over Panasonic is very small.

In such a competitive market, where the target audience is expanding from photographers to the less-enthusiastic consumers, any technological advantage such as IBIS will be a big selling point. Whether it is the best solution is beside the point. But as a photographer, I think it is a good solution. Camera bodies come and go, but good glass lasts a long time. By having the IS mechanism, which is essentially a moving part that can wear out, in the more-often-replaced body, we are actually simplifying maintenance and possibly reducing the long term cost of ownership. This is especially true if you intend to (or already) own a large collection of lenses, particularly non-IS lenses.

Just think about how much more the Voigtlander 25mm f/0.95 costs over the Leica 25mm f/1.4. It's almost $500 for that one stop, plus all the sacrifices in optical quality, size and weight to achieve that ultra-large aperture. For low-light action shooting these sacrifices are necessary since no IS can help stop action. But for everyone else, IBIS can serve a similar purpose for less money. And it works for all lenses.

In case you are wondering, no, Olympus did not pay me to extol on the IBIS. This is my personal take on the technology, which contributed to my decision to buy the E-M5 over the GX-1, and to replace my existing 60D.

 

[cromdeg]

By the way, does anyone experience failed IBIS in a camera body? I do wonder sometimes whether that a camera body can last longer without IBIS. As the IBIS contribute to much mechanical movement into the camera (other than the shutter).

I dont think i'ts an issue. Pentax had these for so long, and I havent heard any noise regarding any failure to IBIS.

Anyway, if can't afford IS, can always do this:
Easy Image Stabilizer For Any Camera - Photography Trick - YouTube

 

[senser]

Canon and Nikon were dominating the camera market even before IBIS or digital cameras were invented. Many professionals and enthusiasts already owned a collection of excellent Canon or Nikkor lenses when the digital revolution came. Thus when the big two introduced their DSLRs with backward lens compatibility (with EF and F mounts respectively), it was natural for their users to continue with their existing systems which they had heavily invested in.

On the other hand, Olympus and Panasonic are on almost equal footing in the micro-4/3 market. The 4/3 system is relatively new and the micro-4/3 is even newer. Both of them are not backward compatible with any legacy system (adapters aside). Although Olympus entered the 4/3 market first and developed some awesome Zuiko Digital lenses, they are quite large and do not attract users who buy into m4/3 for its small form factor. So the advantage Olympus has over Panasonic is very small.

In such a competitive market, where the target audience is expanding from photographers to the less-enthusiastic consumers, any technological advantage such as IBIS will be a big selling point. Whether it is the best solution is beside the point. But as a photographer, I think it is a good solution. Camera bodies come and go, but good glass lasts a long time. By having the IS mechanism, which is essentially a moving part that can wear out, in the more-often-replaced body, we are actually simplifying maintenance and possibly reducing the long term cost of ownership. This is especially true if you intend to (or already) own a large collection of lenses, particularly non-IS lenses.

Just think about how much more the Voigtlander 25mm f/0.95 costs over the Leica 25mm f/1.4. It's almost $500 for that one stop, plus all the sacrifices in optical quality, size and weight to achieve that ultra-large aperture. For low-light action shooting these sacrifices are necessary since no IS can help stop action. But for everyone else, IBIS can serve a similar purpose for less money. And it works for all lenses.

In case you are wondering, no, Olympus did not pay me to extol on the IBIS. This is my personal take on the technology, which contributed to my decision to buy the E-M5 over the GX-1, and to replace my existing 60D.

hey, i'm like you, got 60D and 15-85!..but i got myself a GX1 and also kept my 500D and 60D....when i went pulau ubin with my kids, it was 500d with sigma 18-200 , dun mind if sustain any shocks and bumps and scratches....when i went to airshow , it's my 60D with 15-85 and a borrowed 70-300..dun think my GX1 can handle aerial display like my 60D...GX1 with 20mm 1.7 is for portrait, i am aiming for oly 45mm f1.8....as for oly OMD...played with it at IT show...(recall when i first touch the canon/panasonic cameras when new, the buttons were instantly intuitive and i could operate without looking at any manual), but find oly buttons not so intuitive...maybe that's just me....also i got off camera trigger on 60D, very useful with canon flashes...

 

[zan82]

Canon and Nikon were dominating the camera market even before IBIS or digital cameras were invented. Many professionals and enthusiasts already owned a collection of excellent Canon or Nikkor lenses when the digital revolution came. Thus when the big two introduced their DSLRs with backward lens compatibility (with EF and F mounts respectively), it was natural for their users to continue with their existing systems which they had heavily invested in.

On the other hand, Olympus and Panasonic are on almost equal footing in the micro-4/3 market. The 4/3 system is relatively new and the micro-4/3 is even newer. Both of them are not backward compatible with any legacy system (adapters aside). Although Olympus entered the 4/3 market first and developed some awesome Zuiko Digital lenses, they are quite large and do not attract users who buy into m4/3 for its small form factor. So the advantage Olympus has over Panasonic is very small.

In such a competitive market, where the target audience is expanding from photographers to the less-enthusiastic consumers, any technological advantage such as IBIS will be a big selling point. Whether it is the best solution is beside the point. But as a photographer, I think it is a good solution. Camera bodies come and go, but good glass lasts a long time. By having the IS mechanism, which is essentially a moving part that can wear out, in the more-often-replaced body, we are actually simplifying maintenance and possibly reducing the long term cost of ownership. This is especially true if you intend to (or already) own a large collection of lenses, particularly non-IS lenses.

Just think about how much more the Voigtlander 25mm f/0.95 costs over the Leica 25mm f/1.4. It's almost $500 for that one stop, plus all the sacrifices in optical quality, size and weight to achieve that ultra-large aperture. For low-light action shooting these sacrifices are necessary since no IS can help stop action. But for everyone else, IBIS can serve a similar purpose for less money. And it works for all lenses.

In case you are wondering, no, Olympus did not pay me to extol on the IBIS. This is my personal take on the technology, which contributed to my decision to buy the E-M5 over the GX-1, and to replace my existing 60D.

Actually your point does not stand. The majority of Canon and Nikon's consumers are new users who buy entry level models, and not professionals, and they easily sell more than triple of Sony just in Singapore every month.

It's branding and word of mouth which lead to purchase consideration in consumers' top of mind recall rather than tech advancements in the brands.

Ask your friends who aren't photography aware, would they choose Canon/Nikon or Sony? Are they aware of IBIS?

I hate to say this, but considering the success of Nikon's 1 system globally as compared to Olympen Pen or LUMIX G, it goes to show how much the majority of consumers are easily switched to brands rather than making informed purchases.

Buy one camera, free stay at Taiwan/China/Gold Coast PLUS free stay at Bali/Genting anyone? Buy one V1/J1 and buy a compact at $29 anyone? Ha...

Of course, to a more informed customer like us who visit Clubsnap, which certainly is quite niche, these factors like IBIS do play a part rather than just brands and promotions. Then again, to us, we do have/able to acquire skills that can overcome these limitations as well.

YMYV actually =)

BTW, OM-D do seem to be an excellent camera, though I've already purchased X-Pro1 wahahahhaha

 

[dereth]

I swear, if IBIS is the catch all for everything Canon and Nikon would never have dominated, but hey they do...

Well, it is accepted that quality pictures will only comes with ginormous cameras. And with these cameras come big lenses, big bags, big tripods, big everything.

So, I guess IBIS works for people with room for tripods or super steady hands or... fast lenses. I have none of the latter 2 and if I bring a tripod on trips with my wife she will kill me.

I really can use the 5-axis IBIS on my upcoming E-M5.

I am just a regular consumer who wants good potential in my camera with minimal effort (I cannot take good photos but am trying...) and little bulge in my bag. The MFT range really appeals to me. I remember 3 years back when I told an acquaintance (with his relatively new 5D Mark II) that MFTs and other MILC will be the next big thing to come he scoffed at my ignorance and said DSLR is the way to go for serious photography. I was taking some nice bokeh-ish pictures with my LX3 easily fished out of my bag, He wanted to impress me with the 5D from his car downstairs and told me to wait.

I told him, "It's alright, I have no car. So DSLR is not for me."

 

[dereth]

Well, I guess many others don't think IBIS is a must even for m4/3:
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/four-thirds-standard-4-3-m43/1021978-my-choice-m4-3-body.html

But isn't EP3 top of the votes?

 

[zan82]

But isn't EP3 top of the votes?

I think it's a combination of FAST, capacitive OLED touchscreen, retro outlook and IBIS in a relatively small form factor, rather than just IBIS

 

[rasdeep]

i see a lot of speculation from this post but no facts or source to back it up.. are those claims really a fact?

food for thought, if N1 system is so successful, there will not be a need to give crazy offers to attract customers

Actually your point does not stand. The majority of Canon and Nikon's consumers are new users who buy entry level models, and not professionals, and they easily sell more than triple of Sony just in Singapore every month.

It's branding and word of mouth which lead to purchase consideration in consumers' top of mind recall rather than tech advancements in the brands.

Ask your friends who aren't photography aware, would they choose Canon/Nikon or Sony? Are they aware of IBIS?

I hate to say this, but considering the success of Nikon's 1 system globally as compared to Olympen Pen or LUMIX G, it goes to show how much the majority of consumers are easily switched to brands rather than making informed purchases.

Buy one camera, free stay at Taiwan/China/Gold Coast PLUS free stay at Bali/Genting anyone? Buy one V1/J1 and buy a compact at $29 anyone? Ha...

Of course, to a more informed customer like us who visit Clubsnap, which certainly is quite niche, these factors like IBIS do play a part rather than just brands and promotions. Then again, to us, we do have/able to acquire skills that can overcome these limitations as well.

YMYV actually =)

BTW, OM-D do seem to be an excellent camera, though I've already purchased X-Pro1 wahahahhaha

 

[NazgulKing]

i see a lot of speculation from this post but no facts or source to back it up.. are those claims really a fact?

food for thought, if N1 system is so successful, there will not be a need to give crazy offers to attract customers

You do realise that the same could be said of every Olympus camera?

 

[zan82]

i see a lot of speculation from this post but no facts or source to back it up.. are those claims really a fact?

food for thought, if N1 system is so successful, there will not be a need to give crazy offers to attract customers

GFK can back it up.

That's if you can get it, and don't ask me to show it

Anyhows enough said, no need to prove anything here since it's for pure curiosity reasons we're discussing in the topic and not scholastic case study.

The N1 is successful because of the campaign thus far, but if you know the dealers well enough, they will tell you the camera is no good hahahah.

 

[rasdeep]

You do realise that the same could be said of every Olympus camera?

what could be said about Oly cams? i do not understand..

the part about n1 system, i saw the promo from here
Nikon Singapore Pte Ltd

 

[rasdeep]

Exactly what i thought..
nothing more but grapevine

GFK can back it up.

That's if you can get it, and don't ask me to show it

Anyhows enough said, no need to prove anything here since it's for pure curiosity reasons we're discussing in the topic and not scholastic case study.

The N1 is successful because of the campaign thus far, but if you know the dealers well enough, they will tell you the camera is no good hahahah.

 

[zan82]

Exactly what i thought..
nothing more but grapevine

Hahahahahha, reverse psychology won't work here.

GFK information is used by brands for analysis, not for justifying threads. I've already shared a rough overview of the market already, so can't help it if you think of it as rumors.

Btw this is out of topic, you guys can go back speculating about the new products