i knew one of the CSer here using TC14 with 50-200mm no issue...but not sure 40-150mm ocs he feel the reach for birding is not quite there..
EX25 & TC14 both use together?
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i knew one of the CSer here using TC14 with 50-200mm no issue...but not sure 40-150mm ocs he feel the reach for birding is not quite there..
selamatlzh
Senior Member
I would not worry about EC14 with 14-45 and 40-150 because I bought it for the use of 2 mentioned lens.
I think it is kind of crazy to use EX25 and EC14 together, practically I do not use that combination at all.
I have bought EX25 and EC14 primarily to maximise the full potential of the dual KIT lens. 40-150 has the advantage being a light telephoto lens, when used together with ec14 you get the best out of it. Not comparing the optical quality of ED lens on 50-200, 40-150+ec14 you get 210 at that light weight and small lens. Some reviews and shot below.
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=156845
http://selamatlzh.homeip.net/20051008 Circket match/pa083512.jpg
On the other hand ex25 is provide different advantage when used with 40-150. Read below.
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=153023
NatureTTL
Member
You are right. There are no issues using TC14 with 50-200mm.
NatureTTL
Member
Basically I want to explore the possibilities of using EX25 and EC14 together. To have maximum focal length and mag. rate. As you have mentioned, to maximise the full potential of the equipment we have.
Just to add on. Ex25 with 40-150mm will give you a magnification of 0.6+ (at 40mm) by shortening the focusing distance to 20+ cm, with this, the mag. rate is even better than the ZD 50mm f2.0 which is only 0.5 (without using EX25), not to consider the image quality though.
Cheers.
Please remember that the lens construction of 40-150 is not optimal for macro but I agree, it gives very nice results. However, if you need more magnification I would get the ZD 35mm which goes to 1:1 without any EX-25 or TC and it is much cheaper than the TC-14. Once you have that, add EX-25 and you get even higher magnification. If you want even more, get a lens reverser, put it on the camera and reverse the lens. If you want more than that, put the reverser on the EX-25 with the same lens reversed. My last option would be to get the TC-14 because that is the most expensive solution. But once you have that it is better to put it on the camera than the EX-25 and first after that a lens. Magnification is higher that way.
siaolang22
New Member
hi, i hav TC14 and i hav triedit wif ex25 ( MS color ) it doesnt work, not even manual focus.
Hitman
Senior Member
Since we're on this topic, I have a question. Let's say I have the 50mm f/2 lens, what is the difference between the use of the EX25 and the TC14 for macro shots? Besides a 1 stop loss of light on the TC14, is there any distinct different? I'm asking because both the EX25 and TC14 'magnifies' the subject in one way or the other.
There is a common misunderstanding that a TC can be used for macro or close up. That is wrong. A TC is simply a tele converter that extends the focal length of the lens it is used on. That is, in your case the 50mm will become a 50x1.4=70mm lens. Magnification will not change, actually it will be reduced since you have moved the nearest focusing distance also. What it does is that it "brings" distant objects nearer.
The EX-25 does the opposite, your nearest focusing distance will be even nearer but you will no longer be able to focus at infinity. The DOF will be very small also. You can do some carful experimenting by actually removing the lens and just hold it in front of your camera. You will get huge magnification if you manage to hold the lens aligned with the lens opening. It does not matter that light leaks into the camera, you can still see the effects. As I said, focusing distance is very near the front element and the further the lens is from the opening the larger the magnification and the nearer it is to the subject. Focusing becomes more and more difficult with larger magnification. But all the time you still have a 50mm lens, focal length is not changed.
If you put the TC in between the tube and the camera the TC will work as a magnifying glass and will magnify whatever hits the lens in the TC. The EX-25 together with the 50mm will give you maximum magnification values between 0.49 and 0.98 but if you use the TC-14 the way I describe here you will get maximum 0.98x1.4=1.372. This way you will get more magnification without having to crawl even nearer your subject.
If you put the TC-14 after the EX-25 you will get less than maximum 0.98. What you gain in that case is that the focusing distance is increased so you do not have to be so near the things you want to shoot.
I hope that explains the question.
Hitman
Senior Member
Thanks for the explanation, but I'm still not really sure. Let's try a working example...
Let's say my friend - Joe, have a 50mm plus TC-14 and I have a 50mm plus EX-25. Both of us are trying to take a picture of a lovely white rose in my garden. So in order for the rose to fill the frame, I'll have to move closer to the rose, while Joe can be further away from the rose. Did I understand the concept correctly?
I'm asking because, I'm contemplating on the purchase of the EC-14 (that's the correct code), so just would like to find out a little more about this piece of accessory. I am of the opinion that it is more useful than the EX-25 as it can serve dual purpose (teleconverter plus occassional macro).
Have a lovely Sunday!!
Let's say my friend - Joe, have a 50mm plus TC-14 and I have a 50mm plus EX-25. Both of us are trying to take a picture of a lovely white rose in my garden. So in order for the rose to fill the frame, I'll have to move closer to the rose, while Joe can be further away from the rose. Did I understand the concept correctly?
I'm asking because, I'm contemplating on the purchase of the EC-14 (that's the correct code), so just would like to find out a little more about this piece of accessory. I am of the opinion that it is more useful than the EX-25 as it can serve dual purpose (teleconverter plus occassional macro).
Have a lovely Sunday!!
OK Hitman, if we look at it by your example:
If you have the 50mm ZD macro that gives you together with the EX-25 0.98 magnification. Since that is very near 1, lets just say you will get 1:1 magnification. The Oly sensors are 17.3x13mm in size. So if you and your friend try to photograph a very small rose, say 13mm in diameter than that rose will fill your sensor from top to bottom. To be able to do that you have to be quite close to that rose. You are no longer able to focus at infinity, only a very small band. You have to remove the EX-25 to be able to focus at infinity.
Now, your friend has the same 50mm ZD macro but he has the TC-14. So what he actually have is a 70mm lens. But he has no longer a macro lens, he has to move further away from the rose than he would need to without the TC-14. He, on the other hand can focus at distant objects like an aeroplane and bring that nearer. The 13mm rose will be hardly visible on his picture because he has to move away so much, while the aeroplane will be bigger and better on his picture than without the TC-14. The aeroplane will not be visible at all on your picture because you will not be able to focus on that.
Hope this clears up a bit more.
If you have the 50mm ZD macro that gives you together with the EX-25 0.98 magnification. Since that is very near 1, lets just say you will get 1:1 magnification. The Oly sensors are 17.3x13mm in size. So if you and your friend try to photograph a very small rose, say 13mm in diameter than that rose will fill your sensor from top to bottom. To be able to do that you have to be quite close to that rose. You are no longer able to focus at infinity, only a very small band. You have to remove the EX-25 to be able to focus at infinity.
Now, your friend has the same 50mm ZD macro but he has the TC-14. So what he actually have is a 70mm lens. But he has no longer a macro lens, he has to move further away from the rose than he would need to without the TC-14. He, on the other hand can focus at distant objects like an aeroplane and bring that nearer. The 13mm rose will be hardly visible on his picture because he has to move away so much, while the aeroplane will be bigger and better on his picture than without the TC-14. The aeroplane will not be visible at all on your picture because you will not be able to focus on that.
Hope this clears up a bit more.
Hitman
Senior Member
Thanks, it's clearer now. Just one more question, you said that with the TC-14, Joe has no longer a macro lens and the rose will look smaller - However, given the short focusing distance of the 50mm, I'm sure my friend, Joe will still be able to fill the frame with the rose if he wants to, right?
I guess I would be looking for the EC-14 as my next accessory.
I guess I would be looking for the EC-14 as my next accessory.
WRONG! Joe will never be able to fill his frame with the rose if the rose is 13mm in diameter. The 50mm is called macro, but it is actualy only a close focus. The maximum magnification is only 0.5 without the EX-25. Joe's rose will never be larger than 6.5mm on his frame, half the size that you will be getting with your lens and EX-25.
The two things are for two different purpose. Which one you need most is your choise but do not expect the same results because you won't get them. I do not have the TC-14 so I can just speak generally about the TC/lens combination. That is the way all TCs work as far as I know. That wat the way they worked on my old cameras also and I guess things not changed in that matter.
Hitman
Senior Member
A 13mm rose will be really tiny... :bsmilie:
Under real life conditions, I think I am able to achieve what I wanted with the EC-14. Thanks and have a good week ahead!!
Under real life conditions, I think I am able to achieve what I wanted with the EC-14. Thanks and have a good week ahead!!
Just to add to this interesting discussion.
Firstly, the EC14 works with more lenses than what Olympus themselves say! It even works with the Sigma 55-200mm and the camera attempts to AF (with my E-500)! However, there is a catch. Remember all teleconverters result in loss of light. A 1.4X results in one F stop loss. Most DSLRs's AF works only if the lens + teleconverter combination has aperture larger than F5.6 (this is the case for most brands, with the exception of top end DSLRs which can AF up to F8). While Olympus DSLRs do not prohibit AF if the combination has aperture smaller than F5.6 (other brands such as Nikon and Canon actually does not even attempt to AF if the camera detects a combined F stop smaller than 5.6; there are ways around it by taping pins though), the AF speed (or rather the lack of it) and AF accuracy will be degraded and its usefulness may be limited. Of course you can still manual focus, but the loss of light also means MF can be a challenge (and DSLRs do not have focusing aid in the viewfinder!). Hence with a 1.4 teleconverter, it can only be used with a lens with max aperture of at least F4 if you want reasonable AF performance (that's why not an issue with 50mmF2 or 50-200mmF2.8-3.5).
Secondly, the EC14 can be used with the 35mm Macro. And I find that such a combo is more useful than with EX25. The 35mm Macro is a 1:1 Macro and focuses extremely close to the subject. For small subjects (like insects) I don't think you will find EX25 to be particularly helpful because even without the EX25 you have to be real close to your subject. Inanimate objects are fine, but for insects, I'm not sure. SPLIM already demonstrated the EC14+35mm combo does give higher magnification (basically 1.4X the size of the subject without TC). How is this you may wonder? Well, teleconverters actually do not alter the minimum focus distance. Don't believe me? Grab hold of a TC and try it yourself. The following article may be useful (it's for OM but principles are the same):
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/olympusom1n2/shared/zuiko/htmls/TC14X.htm
Lastly, using extenders like EX25 with teleconverters sound crazy? I think not because it's combining two ways of increasing magnification. One by reducing min. focus distance and the other increase focal length. I don't have EX25 and didn't realize Olympus actually wire it to prevent their use in combination with EC14. I wonder why. But I do that all the time with my Canon system (yes I'm crazy enough to keep 2 systems; both have their own strengths and weaknesses). This provide me with many more combinations and depending on what you're shooting, achieving the working distance that you need. I actually like a crazy combination that is 50mm+12mm extender+1.4X TC + 2X TC. The 50mm has F1.4 max aperture so AF still usable, and optical quality actually not bad (ok lah I'm amateur so serves my purpose). Why do I use such a combination? Because this gives me max magnification at optimal working distance.
My 2cts worth... pardon my long winded post...
Firstly, the EC14 works with more lenses than what Olympus themselves say! It even works with the Sigma 55-200mm and the camera attempts to AF (with my E-500)! However, there is a catch. Remember all teleconverters result in loss of light. A 1.4X results in one F stop loss. Most DSLRs's AF works only if the lens + teleconverter combination has aperture larger than F5.6 (this is the case for most brands, with the exception of top end DSLRs which can AF up to F8). While Olympus DSLRs do not prohibit AF if the combination has aperture smaller than F5.6 (other brands such as Nikon and Canon actually does not even attempt to AF if the camera detects a combined F stop smaller than 5.6; there are ways around it by taping pins though), the AF speed (or rather the lack of it) and AF accuracy will be degraded and its usefulness may be limited. Of course you can still manual focus, but the loss of light also means MF can be a challenge (and DSLRs do not have focusing aid in the viewfinder!). Hence with a 1.4 teleconverter, it can only be used with a lens with max aperture of at least F4 if you want reasonable AF performance (that's why not an issue with 50mmF2 or 50-200mmF2.8-3.5).
Secondly, the EC14 can be used with the 35mm Macro. And I find that such a combo is more useful than with EX25. The 35mm Macro is a 1:1 Macro and focuses extremely close to the subject. For small subjects (like insects) I don't think you will find EX25 to be particularly helpful because even without the EX25 you have to be real close to your subject. Inanimate objects are fine, but for insects, I'm not sure. SPLIM already demonstrated the EC14+35mm combo does give higher magnification (basically 1.4X the size of the subject without TC). How is this you may wonder? Well, teleconverters actually do not alter the minimum focus distance. Don't believe me? Grab hold of a TC and try it yourself. The following article may be useful (it's for OM but principles are the same):
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/olympusom1n2/shared/zuiko/htmls/TC14X.htm
Lastly, using extenders like EX25 with teleconverters sound crazy? I think not because it's combining two ways of increasing magnification. One by reducing min. focus distance and the other increase focal length. I don't have EX25 and didn't realize Olympus actually wire it to prevent their use in combination with EC14. I wonder why. But I do that all the time with my Canon system (yes I'm crazy enough to keep 2 systems; both have their own strengths and weaknesses). This provide me with many more combinations and depending on what you're shooting, achieving the working distance that you need. I actually like a crazy combination that is 50mm+12mm extender+1.4X TC + 2X TC. The 50mm has F1.4 max aperture so AF still usable, and optical quality actually not bad (ok lah I'm amateur so serves my purpose). Why do I use such a combination? Because this gives me max magnification at optimal working distance.
My 2cts worth... pardon my long winded post...
Red_I,
You may be right about the TC and closest focusing distance, I don't really remember ever measuring that part. But still, according to the example, ZD 50mm + EC-14 will only give a maximum magnification of 1:0.7 which is not even macro by definition. Assuming the TC increases magnification by 40%. EX-25 + ZD 50mm will give the 1:1 where macro actually starts.
I did some experimenting with that but not measured the closest focusing distance with TCs since I do not regard that useful. There are other, in my eyes better ways to increase distance and magnification, one is to use a reversed zoom lens. I used my old OM 70-210mm with excellent results that way.
Another of my experiments can be seen here:
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=220876
where I stack two TCs and some tubes plus 14-45mm ZD kit lens.
You may be right about the TC and closest focusing distance, I don't really remember ever measuring that part. But still, according to the example, ZD 50mm + EC-14 will only give a maximum magnification of 1:0.7 which is not even macro by definition. Assuming the TC increases magnification by 40%. EX-25 + ZD 50mm will give the 1:1 where macro actually starts.
I did some experimenting with that but not measured the closest focusing distance with TCs since I do not regard that useful. There are other, in my eyes better ways to increase distance and magnification, one is to use a reversed zoom lens. I used my old OM 70-210mm with excellent results that way.
Another of my experiments can be seen here:
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=220876
where I stack two TCs and some tubes plus 14-45mm ZD kit lens.
That's a cool setup!
Yes I guess with the Oly 50mm macro lens the EX25 is the way to go. The setup will depend on the characteristics of the lens and the intended application.
Cheers.
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