Employ Singaporeans for what?

[Andy Ang]

If you chose to study for a degree, when you have finished the course, guessed what. The gals have either finished their Msc or even PhD.

 

[westwest1]

For example, a fresh grad from the university will have a higher starting salary having completed NS. That alone is an head start. From then onwards, how one's career path develops is really up to the individual.

why should we give a fresh grad that have completed NS higher a starting salary...thats his duty to the nation...but not to the organization he is going to work for...he just lack of real world experience...

 

[zaxh81]

why should we give a fresh grad that have completed NS higher a starting salary...thats his duty to the nation...but not to the organization he is going to work for...he just lack of real world experience...

ya lor,i only hear those prison officers or goverment jobs got higher pay for completing NS.

 

[sORe-EyEz]

Lol, you called that a head start?

Guys spend 2 yrs in army, come out 2 years later, with say $250 more then others. Called head start?

:angry:

which company so gd, all my prev employers pay me same as gals leh.

any guy who get even $1 more (per mth) than their female peers please stand up! :bsmilie:

but than there r many jobs which specify females oni... :sticktong :mad2:

 

[raincool2005]

Lol, you called that a head start?

Guys spend 2 yrs in army, come out 2 years later, with say $250 more then others. Called head start?

Example a girl, finished school. Go work for 2 years (while the guys are in army). Got 2 years of salary plus increment, which is almost equivalent with the $250 extra now, plus 2 years of working experience (while the guys have none), plus 2 years of bonus, plus seniority. Most probably when the guy started to work, they will find their classmates (girls) their senior or even their direct manager by then.
:angry:

do u know ? what is the best way to make use of NS ? Be an SAF scholar ! you will make it to rank of Major in at least 5 years time.. Major's pay is good. And if u do well in SAF, u can join politics or even join the stats boards after reaching a certain age.. and then if good somemore... u can be an MP !

:think:

 

[westwest1]

which company so gd, all my prev employers pay me same as gals leh.

any guy who get even $1 more (per mth) than their female peers please stand up! :bsmilie:

but than there r many jobs which specify females oni... :sticktong :mad2:

if rephrase to get less than them...haha...a lot will stand up...;p

 

[westwest1]

do u know ? what is the best way to make use of NS ? Be an SAF scholar ! you will make it to rank of Major in at least 5 years time.. Major's pay is good. And if u do well in SAF, u can join politics or even join the stats boards after reaching a certain age.. and then if good somemore... u can be an MP !

:think:

only a very very small hand full can get it...lets see the real world...if everyone can get that award...whats the point of being a scholar...

 

[Hoky]

which company so gd, all my prev employers pay me same as gals leh.

any guy who get even $1 more (per mth) than their female peers please stand up! :bsmilie:

but than there r many jobs which specify females oni... :sticktong :mad2:

I think the higher payout to NS serving males involves the civil service or in certain stat boards.

I remember once working in a GLC (Govt linked company: "under the Temasek chain") which NS serving males are paid the same as females.
If a GLC can pay males and females on the same basis of qualification and ignoring the years of NS stint. Needless to say, the private organisations would do the same ignoring it.

In conclusion, pte ltd / ltd do not always follow suit with civil / stat board practices.
(Machiam garmen got 2 month bonus ++ last year, my company don't have bonus and annual increment for 4 years already.)

 

[GhostSG]

I think the higher payout to NS serving males involves the civil service or in certain stat boards.

I remember once working in a GLC (Govt linked company: "under the Temasek chain") which NS serving males are paid the same as females.
If a GLC can pay males and females on the same basis of qualification and ignoring the years of NS stint. Needless to say, the private organisations would do the same ignoring it.

In conclusion, pte ltd / ltd do not always follow suit with civil / stat board practices.
(Machiam garmen got 2 month bonus ++ last year, my company don't have bonus and annual increment for 4 years already.)

GLC control such a large % of the economy what, of course tey have better pay. But then again only the "NATO elites-No Action Talk Only" survive in civil svc or GLC hardworking no use; "work smart no work hard" is the phrase there. Thats why I left and became a videographer.

Nowadays no more iron rice bowl liao, one may get higher pay cos complete NS but it goes stagnant in years to come. No freedom - can't upgrade in studies - you sell your time & freedom to them so that these "NATO elites" get their jobs done-slogged like hell by us "workers". Those who got the $ and education qualifications already migrated liao like my cousins and uncle.

 

[westwest1]

GLC control such a large % of the economy what, of course tey have better pay. But then again only the "NATO elites-No Action Talk Only" survive in civil svc or GLC hardworking no use; "work smart no work hard" is the phrase there. Thats why I left and became a videographer.

Nowadays no more iron rice bowl liao, one may get higher pay cos complete NS but it goes stagnant in years to come. No freedom - can't upgrade in studies - you sell your time & freedom to them so that these "NATO elites" get their jobs done-slogged like hell by us "workers". Those who got the $ and education qualifications already migrated liao like my cousins and uncle.

somehow i had this somewhere before...

NATO is very common in the industries...

 

[alexlim78]

Sorry ... need to calrify some things here and do some reality and facts check...

Our economy is essentially a sub-contract economy where the inherent worth of people is that of being a factor of production. That's why if there are no locals capable to do a job in a certain field, rather than wait for local talent and expertise to arise, it becomes expedient to have foreign talent with the necessary skill set to fill the labour gap. It is simply cheaper and faster. Utilitarian and practical and it works for soccer players, table-tennis players to CEOs.

I think in this case, it is not because we don't have the people to do the job, its just that the people with the capability to do the job are elsewhere in the rest of the world. Those who are left behind are not because they can't do it, just because they don't have a choice because their family is here. They have to prioritise and stay with their family. That I believe is a valuable Asian culture of filial.

As for sports, well, sad to say Singapore do not have much atheletics, not because we can't produce, but because you can't produce one overnight. When was the first time Singapore government put emphasis on sports, say 10years ago? when did we import our sports talents? I forgot, maybe say 5 years ago? do you think you can train a sportsman in 5 years? even if you train him everyday till he die of exhaustion, there is no way to get a sportsman in 5 years. Well.. unless he's talented. So what is the probability to get a talent from a 4 million population Singapore, compare to a 1 billion population China? you do the maths...

That being the case, before we succumb to a knee jerk reaction to speak negatively of foreign workers or foreign talents, I suggest Singaporeans wake-up and take a reality check. Far easier to finger point that others are the problem rather than admit our shortcomings. From my observation, it is easier not to hire a Singaporean rather than a foreign worker. Why?

The foreign worker is often more dedicated, works harder and have better work attitude. Painful for locals to hear but in many ways true. Typical Singaporean traits to name a few - picky about work, little or no loyalty but will job hop for money, hard to train, complains and whines, etc. Just a simple example, customer service here pales in comparison with say Hong Kong.

Reality Check: When was the last time you've been to Hong Kong? Have you walked around the whole of Hong Kong? or you've justed shopped in the high class shopping malls? You should check again when you quote example of saying Hong Kong has a good service attitude. I've been travellling to Hong Kong and I can say the service attitude is miles of difference compared to 5 years ago. Although Singapore may not be ,much better, but I can say at least it is better than Hong Kong now.

For many foreigners, they know that they have a better chance of a better life if they work here than if they were back in their home country. In the same way lots of Singaporeans harbour thoughts of emigrating to somewhere else. For some with the means and skill set, that may become a reality but in essence thay are no different from the FW or FT in the search for a better life.

Well, if you are a foreigner, then the same concept applies to most Singaporeans. Singaporeans feel that they can have a chance of a better life if they work elsewhere. But why most of them are still here, same answer.. because of their families and friends.

It is all too easy for Singaporeans to get into a xenophobic mindset when pressed on all sides but unless we breakout of this idea that someone/the corporation/the govt owe you a living the faster we'll cope with the changes facing this economy. Sadly many Singaporeans are oblivious to this painful truth.

Its because we know the painful truth that's why we are still here, if Singapore has a big strike tomorrow, let's see which FT boss has subordinates report to him on that day.

 

[alexlim78]

I think you really get a point here, there are 3 kinds of people :

- The lazy one
- the one who tries
- the one who leaves and tries in an other country.

What you say is true everywhere in the world and not only in Singapore. Foreigners who come to live in Singapore are only in the third kind, lazy ones don't come. Foreigners in a country are always and everywhere higher level than local people in average case.

I totally agree and I think you also got the point, lazy Singaporeans may also be one of those that are left behind, but not all that are left behind are lazy. Some may have families to consider. Well, morale behind the story. Let the better Singaporeans go overseas and try to be the higher level than their local people. Why stay here to fight for nothing?? There is nothing much here left to fight for.

 

[alexlim78]

Actually there is a case.

It may not have been eloquently put across here but still, that does not mean that it is not true.

And 2½ years of NS + 10 to 20 years of reservist, plus ICTs/IPPTs/RTs/BCTCs take their toll on citizens.

Here in Sing, we have young and able bodied male foreigners who live off our state, its security, comfort, fairmindedness, employment + business opportunities..... without having done any of the obligations mentioned before.

And worse... they often try to boss and push local Sing citizens around and thumb us down.

Let us not pretend that such injustice and behavior does not hurt.

So it will come to a point where the threshold of pain is crossed and Sing citizens are FED UP.

If you look at other countries, Malaysia, Indonesia, Australia, even Japan protect their citizens' rights and standing in the country very well.

We do not.
It may take a catastrophic loss at the elections to change this.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Maybe all hell will break lose when the "Old master" kicks the bucket. haha.. till then, basically what can people do? The P*P is right, if we were to hand the governing of this country to the oppositions now, the economy will collapse. Why is that so? Because young Singaporeans are not willing to go into politics and fight for the people. Well, at least for now, those that I see are all standing together with P*P, with "old master's" son. So till the day the opposition is strong enough, what else you think we can do?

 

[alexlim78]

For example, a fresh grad from the university will have a higher starting salary having completed NS. That alone is an head start. QUOTE]

Maybe I've been out of the job market in Singapore for too long, since when did university grads in Singapore get a higher pay after they complete NS? Which industry are you from? cos I've never heard of this regulation with any of my friends. Neither has it ever happened to me. Well, unless of cause you are talking about government job...

 

[westwest1]

For example, a fresh grad from the university will have a higher starting salary having completed NS. That alone is an head start.

can you tell me why should a fresh grad have a higher starting salary just because he completed his NS??

what have he done in NS to help the organization he going to work in to justify a higher starting salary??

Why would a boss treat a male and female with the same qualifications differently by giving the male a higher starting pay just because he finished NS?? Isn't it bias towards the female in this case??

Only heard of Gov sector that does this...but not the private sector...

 

[sORe-EyEz]

can you tell me why should a fresh grad have a higher starting salary just because he completed his NS??

what have he done in NS to help the organization he going to work in to justify a higher starting salary??

Why would a boss treat a male and female with the same qualifications differently by giving the male a higher starting pay just because he finished NS?? Isn't it bias towards the female in this case??

Only heard of Gov sector that does this...but not the private sector...

its oni fair 2 compensate all males who when through mandatory NS wad. its not mandatory 4 females 2 giv birth leh. tt pay increase is justified, no? how much do males get (mthly) during 2yrs NS compared 2 females working har? :think:

there will always b differences in either gender but conscription (w/ all d strings attached) made made it more so. gahmen pay those who complete NS more but how come no hooha was raised? Aware (women's rights org) din even bring tis issue up, y ler? cos they still think its a men's job 2 raise d family? :think:

 

[quekky]

its oni fair 2 compensate all males who when through mandatory NS wad. its not mandatory 4 females 2 giv birth leh. tt pay increase is justified, no? how much do males get (mthly) during 2yrs NS compared 2 females working har? :think:

there will always b differences in either gender but conscription (w/ all d strings attached) made made it more so. gahmen pay those who complete NS more but how come no hooha was raised? Aware (women's rights org) din even bring tis issue up, y ler? cos they still think its a men's job 2 raise d family? :think:

by right yes, but a lot of private sectors see how long you work and they don't consider NS as relevant working experience (unless it is really that relevant)

comparing my friends, most of my guy friends (and me) get same or lower starting pay compared to my female friends' starting pay, due to the economy downturn from 1998-2004. Eg my female friends got a avg salary of $X during 1998 after their poly, my guys friends found jobs in 2001-2002, yet avg salary is lower than $X. even gov sector where they give $200 more if you complete NS, the pay scale had been stangant for that 3 years, so the gals get a raise to higher than the guys by the time he got in

 

[NikLeica]

Something of interest to why Singaporeans may be a more attractive hiring option as employees...

Enjoy the article.

Singapore employees cheapest to hire and fire
Singapore – Employees in Singapore cost almost nothing when it comes to hiring and firing, says an American think tank, The Heritage Foundation.
http://news.humanresourcesonline.net/cgi-bin16/DM/y/eBHUA0UJfyM0peN0Ndht0ER

 

[Hoky]

Reality Check: When was the last time you've been to Hong Kong? Have you walked around the whole of Hong Kong? or you've justed shopped in the high class shopping malls? You should check again when you quote example of saying Hong Kong has a good service attitude. I've been travellling to Hong Kong and I can say the service attitude is miles of difference compared to 5 years ago. Although Singapore may not be ,much better, but I can say at least it is better than Hong Kong now.

I strongly agree on the Hong Kong service part.
Our elites seem to think that their quality of service is all-mighty. But can't blame them for they only patronize the posh places. They probably haven't been thru Nathan Road stalls. (Needless to say about Temple street, NT... etc)

 

[therat]

Time for u to report to MOM..ratio of Singaporeans to foreigners is not right..:think:

Sad to say, this is indeed happening everywhere..however, i think the ratio set by MOM still has to observe..

PR and Singaporean in under the same group.

Hence some company employ PR to meet that ratio set by MOM.