E3 vs EP1/2

[seafood]

Point 1 : There are different grades of sensors, even though they are Four Thirds sensors.

Point 2 : There are loads of difference in the programming codes for firmware for different models of cameras. That changes things as well.

Point 3 : Having a sensor is one thing. Having all good components in the camera working together and putting together all better quality components creates a better camera, period.

Point 4 : There are many factors when looking at a camera, inside and outside. Weatherproofing is one of them.

Point 5 : Buy what you need, and not what you wish you have. It just makes it an endless cycle.

If we were all to be rational and just follow Point 5 ..... all the "toys" companies will fold :bsmilie::bsmilie::bsmilie:

 

[albertri]

If we were all to be rational and just follow Point 5 ..... all the "toys" companies will fold :bsmilie::bsmilie::bsmilie:

yeah normally what I wish wins:bsmilie:

 

[microcosm]

If we were all to be rational and just follow Point 5 ..... all the "toys" companies will fold :bsmilie::bsmilie::bsmilie:

"Opening a can of worms, you are".
- Yoda.

I have to disagree on that observation and yet agree to a certain extent.

Why would the toys company fold?

Because companies putting out rubbish now have no more customers. Customers who are buying less (in quantity) are now looking at quality instead. Therefore those companies who are putting out garbage will eventually fold.

To me, that is a good thing.

Why would they not fold?

With consumers buying less but high quality, companies can actually make more money. No more senseless marketing to sell the rest of the crap that is not selling well, over invest into areas in R&D that is not needed just to get a few more models out there. No more waste of money to build larger production lines to put out more models, just that few and do it good. (Think Apple, only had iPod in the beginning and only available in white, no other choice, and yet they became the mp3 player).

Pretty much why I ended up with Olympus too.

Tastsuno factory don't like producing rubbish. All their lenses are superb (High Grade and up).

Not much third party lenses, which is good for me, third party lenses are usually not very desirable. It is not like the Zuiko Digital lenses are sorely lacking in a certain focal length. Some argue they want 25mm f0.95 lenses, well, look at Canon and Leica that makes probably one of the best 50mm f0.95 lenses... how many are actually sold? Come on, stop lying to ourselves. We won't fork out that kind of money eventually.

Some wants creamy bokeh with Four Thirds.

Sorry mate, wrong camp unless you can accept using a longer lens and shooting wide open. I get some good results too, but if you want wide FOV with creamy bokeh, turn left, Nikon, turn right, Canon, look here, none.

Even f1.2 aperture lenses will not yield that kind of bokeh you can get with a larger sensor camera. Those 135 full frame cameras will produce the kind of bokeh you are really after.

Or learn to be more proficient with Photoshop.

If daddy got money, go medium format... that is the real land of bokehs, or buy a Leica M8/S2, and shut up and shoot.

Otherwise, I rather have a company being more focused in producing quality and good stuff, than pumping out loads and loads of garbage like mobile phone companies.

How many Sigmas/Tokina/Tamron lenses you think are sold to demanding photographers?

But in this time and era, it is not the case. Thankfully there is still a company, Olympus. Mad silly scientist and marketing idiots. Bless them. Else my world is an even more pitiful place to live.

 

[bousozoku]

...
Even f1.2 aperture lenses will not yield that kind of bokeh you can get with a larger sensor camera. Those 135 full frame cameras will produce the kind of bokeh you are really after.
...

If those f/1.2 lenses are sharp at f/1.2, which they're usually not, despite the extreme price. They make for really amazing f/1.8 and reasonable f/1.4 lenses, though.

 

[nightpiper]

No offence to bro microcosm, but if the co. throw in tons of marketing money like apple did, sh1t also sells for ton loads :bsmilie::bsmilie: Market it as fertiliser & its organic somemore :angel:

If those f/1.2 lenses are sharp at f/1.2, which they're usually not, despite the extreme price. They make for really amazing f/1.8 and reasonable f/1.4 lenses, though.

I heard the Leica 0.95 is pretty sharp. :lovegrin: But... it'll cost u 2 kidneys & an eye

 

[microcosm]

No offence to bro microcosm, but if the co. throw in tons of marketing money like apple did, sh1t also sells for ton loads :bsmilie::bsmilie: Market it as fertiliser & its organic somemore :angel:

I don't think so bro, your observation is maybe true for short lived Chinese companies. The company might make it for a while, but over time, that shit will come back and bite the company in the ass. Unless it is a balance of a decent product and focused direction. That is why there is only one Steve Jobs. I might not like Apple for what they have done to the Mac and apps, but as a company, they have not only survived but bloomed. Sure, the iPod may not be perfect, but it does it job well, and it has spawn a whole family of products. It is about being focused.

There aren't many companies out there with a cult following like Apple.

Olympus is somehow like Apple, minus the clever marketing. They only had Four Thirds for about 7 years, they were focused (like the Mac), and after this period, they come out with the Micro Four Thirds (like the iPod) and it is their best selling product ever. Alas, their nincompoop marketing director in the mothership who did not have vision allowed competition to take their market share with better marketing strategies. If they have been more focused overall, I am sure Panasonic would not taken away that much of the market share. Many still don't know why Olympus cameras are good. They still buy into clever marketing from Canon and Nikon, who have a stronger marketing focus.

And by the way, Apple does not throw as much money as you think. Peanuts compared to Canon. But they threw the money in the right place with the right direction.

 

[albertri]

And by the way, Apple does not throw as much money as you think. Peanuts compared to Canon. But they threw the money in the right place with the right direction.

This is where Mr Steve Jobs is good at ^_^ He left Apple and it almost hit rock bottom when he come back it went up again :thumbsup: He is like some one knows where and how to tickle your fancy

 

[microcosm]

This is where Mr Steve Jobs is good at ^_^ He left Apple and it almost hit rock bottom when he come back it went up again :thumbsup: He is like some one knows where and how to tickle your fancy

I like what my ex-boss once told me.
Steve Jobs is great, because he sells "desire".
Amazing mind.

 

[nightpiper]

......
And by the way, Apple does not throw as much money as you think. Peanuts compared to Canon. But they threw the money in the right place with the right direction.

Think peanuts is relative to the company earnings. $500m on marketing is nothing when apple has more than $40b cash sitting in the bank doing nothing with also no loans. But earnings of $5b against $500m of marketing budget is pretty big.

Apple did their fair share of dirty work (incl suing MS to pump in money to keep apple alive, reason being if apple died, its monopoly & thats against the US laws). The iPod was not successful in the beginning, IIRC, its until their 3rd gen that took the world by storm. Apple spent hundreds of millions on marketing making it a feel cool look cool device to have. Rem those 'yo yo yo' ads? :bsmilie::bsmilie:

I wud say the word use is not 'focus' but 'effective marketing'. I mean, look at apple's past few years earnings, the big bulk comes from gadgets (iPods, iPhones & the current iPads), not computers. The focus has changed, from comps to gadgets. Its the effective marketing that drives that sale numbers. Rem the tag line "Eat Pentium for lunch"? So many were taken in by it, & they r made up of non techy people who really haven't a clue. Apple has a good track record of such misleading ads & many were "reconfig" to suit the respective countries due to misleading is not allowed (Australia, UK, etc).


I think OT big time liao :sweat: So coming back to the thread subject. My vote goes to E3 for the better gradation rendering & smoother colours :lovegrin:

OT again. I'm going for a trip at the last day of sept, what new toys wud be available by then u reckon? My missus ask me to go borrow a 1D MK3, i look at her & say "U're mad!!" :bsmilie:

 

[microcosm]

Think peanuts is relative to the company earnings. $500m on marketing is nothing when apple has more than $40b cash sitting in the bank doing nothing with also no loans. But earnings of $5b against $500m of marketing budget is pretty big.

Apple did their fair share of dirty work (incl suing MS to pump in money to keep apple alive, reason being if apple died, its monopoly & thats against the US laws). The iPod was not successful in the beginning, IIRC, its until their 3rd gen that took the world by storm. Apple spent hundreds of millions on marketing making it a feel cool look cool device to have. Rem those 'yo yo yo' ads?

I wud say the word use is not 'focus' but 'effective marketing'. I mean, look at apple's past few years earnings, the big bulk comes from gadgets (iPods, iPhones & the current iPads), not computers. The focus has changed, from comps to gadgets. Its the effective marketing that drives that sale numbers. Rem the tag line "Eat Pentium for lunch"? So many were taken in by it, & they r made up of non techy people who really haven't a clue. Apple has a good track record of such misleading ads & many were "reconfig" to suit the respective countries due to misleading is not allowed (Australia, UK, etc).


I think OT big time liao So coming back to the thread subject. My vote goes to E3 for the better gradation rendering & smoother colours

OT again. I'm going for a trip at the last day of sept, what new toys wud be available by then u reckon? My missus ask me to go borrow a 1D MK3, i look at her & say "U're mad!!"

Aiyoh, we can argue until the cows come home, go take a shower, get slaughtered and end up as BBQ and never come to a conclusion if you put thing this way lah...

$500m marketing is really peanuts compared to what the other companies does. And in percentage, that is really low... but... nevermind lah... I believe the others get it... I am just looking at how they did it... and not a moral police on how they do it, for everyone who have made it has done far dirtier things too... we know many a thing that does not work the way it seems...

If I can remember, the only product that I have bought recently that is true to what it does without gimmick, and without fanfare, is my Leatherman Wave. Ha ha ha...

OK, enough! We can go on forever...

(For those who do not know, nightpiper and me are real friends in real life and we can argue until the cow comes home while smiling and stirring coffee... so this ain't no flame war, because if I need flame I will bring a flamethrower to his place). Ha ha ha... :flame:





Canon 1Ds Mk III?? No lah, that is so out of date. In Tokyo I saw its replacement... The Pentax 645 Digital. Makes a nicer sound too than the Canon for some reasons. Pentax did a pretty decent job with it, regardless of its short comings.

OK, all rubbish... I think you are better off with a E1/ E3 and a 12-60 and run along... that would be your ideal solution. And have a greeeeat! holiday.

 

[albertri]

looking at my old EPL1 pix and my E620 yeah I think the PEN seems to have a better DR

 

[wonglp]

looking at my old EPL1 pix and my E620 yeah I think the PEN seems to have a better DR

dxomark seems to say otherwise, maybe that will make your day
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Camera-Sensor/Compare-sensors/(appareil1)/643|0/(appareil2)/588|0/(appareil3)/220|0/(onglet)/0/(brand)/Olympus/(brand2)/Olympus/(brand3)/Olympus
interestingly, E3 has best DR at iso100 and dips at iso200. while i don't find e620 or e-pl1 has much difference in DR (to my eyes), i find the iso of e-pl1 is better.

 

[albertri]

dxomark seems to say otherwise, maybe that will make your day
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Camera-Sensor/Compare-sensors/(appareil1)/643|0/(appareil2)/588|0/(appareil3)/220|0/(onglet)/0/(brand)/Olympus/(brand2)/Olympus/(brand3)/Olympus
interestingly, E3 has best DR at iso100 and dips at iso200. while i don't find e620 or e-pl1 has much difference in DR (to my eyes), i find the iso of e-pl1 is better.

yey! :bsmilie: some sunshine to E-Systems finally over PEN:bigeyes: but its pretty close shave between EPL1 and E620

 

[nightpiper]

Canon 1Ds Mk III?? No lah, that is so out of date. In Tokyo I saw its replacement... The Pentax 645 Digital. Makes a nicer sound too than the Canon for some reasons. Pentax did a pretty decent job with it, regardless of its short comings.

OK, all rubbish... I think you are better off with a E1/ E3 and a 12-60 and run along... that would be your ideal solution. And have a greeeeat! holiday.

Mk3 is becos i can borrow from someone. 645D unless its u who r willing to lend me lor. HAHAHAHAHA!!! One of the options is the a PEN3 with 14 F2.5, 20 F1.7 & 45 F2.8. Its like the old Contax G2 trinity combo :angel: And also easier to get a Batman utility belt for this setup. The big question is... will it come in time? The other option (more ideal) wud be the "A950" with the CZ 24-70 but that one no news at all le, confirm won't be in time for my trip :cry:

So when u coming back for stirring kopi session? Miss the days le

E3 also very dated liao la, its the new E5 G-Shock with 20 bar water resistance with a new 12-45 SHG all-in-one wonder lens :devil: HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

[bousozoku]

This is where Mr Steve Jobs is good at ^_^ He left Apple and it almost hit rock bottom when he come back it went up again :thumbsup: He is like some one knows where and how to tickle your fancy

There is a lot more to the story than that. Neither Steve was watching the company while it was falling apart. Steve Jobs was busy micro-managing the Macintosh project.

He's definitely the best at marketing of anyone running a company. No on else has the charisma to sell people what they don't really want. (I'm a long time Apple equipment user.)

Olympus, especially in the U.S.A. which is a huge market, could use a face associated with their products. Kevin Spacey certainly wasn't it. Then again, I don't think Ashton Kutcher talking about packing his underwear helped sell a Nikon D90.

 

[seafood]

dxomark seems to say otherwise, maybe that will make your day
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Camera-Sensor/Compare-sensors/(appareil1)/643|0/(appareil2)/588|0/(appareil3)/220|0/(onglet)/0/(brand)/Olympus/(brand2)/Olympus/(brand3)/Olympus
interestingly, E3 has best DR at iso100 and dips at iso200. while i don't find e620 or e-pl1 has much difference in DR (to my eyes), i find the iso of e-pl1 is better.

Kinda agree with my personal take on the PENs. Initially I was fairly smitten by their colours but now am back to the E3 if I don't need compactness. The PEN has replace my compact camera. Sold my E620 after getting the PEN but I do find the E620 pics more balanced than the PENs.

But the PENs does outshine the E3/620 for higher ISO outputs :thumbsup: Bad point here being not much bright glass (AF kind) available.

 

[seafood]

There is a lot more to the story than that. Neither Steve was watching the company while it was falling apart. Steve Jobs was busy micro-managing the Macintosh project.

He's definitely the best at marketing of anyone running a company. No on else has the charisma to sell people what they don't really want. (I'm a long time Apple equipment user.)

Olympus, especially in the U.S.A. which is a huge market, could use a face associated with their products. Kevin Spacey certainly wasn't it. Then again, I don't think Ashton Kutcher talking about packing his underwear helped sell a Nikon D90.

Anyone remember Ellen Feiss?

Apple was cool because they DON'T need celebrities endorsement

 

[wonglp]

Kinda agree with my personal take on the PENs. Initially I was fairly smitten by their colours but now am back to the E3 if I don't need compactness. The PEN has replace my compact camera. Sold my E620 after getting the PEN but I do find the E620 pics more balanced than the PENs.

But the PENs does outshine the E3/620 for higher ISO outputs :thumbsup: Bad point here being not much bright glass (AF kind) available.

i think owning both E3 & pen is a good choice between fast AF & compactness, while still able to share the lenses (if u mind having good quality pic on the Pen, albeit the weight). i dun have the cash to own both, so i chose compactness. & i chose MF lens, it's a BBB virus, sometimes buy so many "cheap" manual lens = one expensive lens liao...haha
dxo mark is only one aspect, it doesn;t tell u about a system---good quality lenses, colours, af speed, weatherproofing options, possibility to use other manual lenses etc...meanwhile, keen & hopeful awaiting for photokina news for fast m43 quality primes...:lovegrin:

 

[albertri]

i think owning both E3 & pen is a good choice between fast AF & compactness, while still able to share the lenses (if u mind having good quality pic on the Pen, albeit the weight). i dun have the cash to own both, so i chose compactness. & i chose MF lens, it's a BBB virus, sometimes buy so many "cheap" manual lens = one expensive lens liao...haha
dxo mark is only one aspect, it doesn;t tell u about a system---good quality lenses, colours, af speed, weatherproofing options, possibility to use other manual lenses etc...meanwhile, keen & hopeful awaiting for photokina news for fast m43 quality primes...:lovegrin:

yeah bro you cant afford getting E3, that why you have m4/3 9-18mm, 50mm f2.0 OM50mm f1.4 and i am not sure what's inside your huge bag yesterday :bsmilie: plus a very funky tripod :bigeyes:

just kidding bro was happy when you finally showed up yesterday during the session, finally saw you in person

 

[NazgulKing]

Olympus is somehow like Apple, minus the clever marketing. They only had Four Thirds for about 7 years, they were focused (like the Mac), and after this period, they come out with the Micro Four Thirds (like the iPod) and it is their best selling product ever. Alas, their nincompoop marketing director in the mothership who did not have vision allowed competition to take their market share with better marketing strategies. If they have been more focused overall, I am sure Panasonic would not taken away that much of the market share. Many still don't know why Olympus cameras are good. They still buy into clever marketing from Canon and Nikon, who have a stronger marketing focus.

And by the way, Apple does not throw as much money as you think. Peanuts compared to Canon. But they threw the money in the right place with the right direction.

Isn't the Olympus marketing for the new PENs pretty darn aggressive? In fact, you hardly see Panasonic marketing the GF-1 in Singapore, much less abroad. What's disappointing though is that Olympus was slow on the uptake for high quality lenses from the start though, compared to Panasonic. I'll probably get a PEN for my next m4/3 body if I stick to it long enough, assuming the temptation to get a Sony NEX just to mount rangefinder lenses on doesn't get over me. ;p