E-330 horizontal banding and lackadaisical Oly support

[speedblade]

hey tune, my thoughts:

1. so far the samples are in your room (any samples taken from another location? I'm thinking EMF interference. hmmmm ... does aluminum foil blocks EMF ? if it does, maybe wrap your cam and shoot some to see if the band drops....)

2. jpeg vs raw (i think blu has one done with raw shooter? the converter is probably removing the artifacts, a possible work around at best only....)

3. normally heating up the sensor is not good. (S/n ratio is bad) perhaps the increased noise is masking the bands.....

Wish you luck on the re-cal by the Oli folks.

 

[cjtune]

hey tune, my thoughts:

1. so far the samples are in your room (any samples taken from another location? I'm thinking EMF interference. hmmmm ... does aluminum foil blocks EMF ? if it does, maybe wrap your cam and shoot some to see if the band drops....)

2. jpeg vs raw (i think blu has one done with raw shooter? the converter is probably removing the artifacts, a possible work around at best only....)

3. normally heating up the sensor is not good. (S/n ratio is bad) perhaps the increased noise is masking the bands.....

Wish you luck on the re-cal by the Oli folks.

Hi WC,

1. I've also taken shots outdoors and as far 400km away in KL. There are still bands! Here's a photo from a friends' wedding (look at his face, and her back) in a suburb in Malaysia, and some from the KL Birdpark (at the water at one corner):
http://www.box.net/public/fpu3y4hrt7 (Wedding; 4MB JPEG file)
http://www.box.net/public/l1izc10uzr (Bird park; 4MB JPEG file)

2. Nope. It is apparent in RAW too. One member NMSS2 has inspected my raws and though he only replied through PM, concurs that the bands are there.

3. Actually, a recent discovery of mine may show that heating up the sensor may be GOOD! After about 10 minutes of Live View Mode B (direct to main sensor; LV Mode A is to mini sensor), the bands hardly appear. But I cannot wait 10 minutes before deciding it's safe to use ISO 800 or higher. Also, another '10-minute test' by DPReview seems to show there ought to be no increase (or decrease) in the level of noise by leaving LV Mode B on for a long time (see last graph):
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse330/page18.asp
But note there's a noticeable fluctuation of Gray noise...

It's also not so much a Signal-to-Noise ratio degradation issue, but the appearance of an artificial signal... the wanted bands/stripes. What happened to the good-old randomly scattered type of noise?

Thanks for dropping by, WC. May migrate later to Canon after my E-330's EOL in 2008 if this issue isn't satisfactory resolved. Your 20D's shots are wonderful! But maybe I give too little credit to the photographer..

I think I'll just leave it as it is to the Olympus Service center. My hands are already full troubleshooting system/subsystem issues in my current day job... or maybe I should start working for Olympus Imaging Systems??

 

[cjtune]

Don't know if blu should send it in or not. The banding is not even as noticeable as you loan unit.

Well, you have X months of warranty left...
There are quite a number of others whose E-330's has less severe banding, or have a lower threshold of annoyance than me, and are living with the banding. You can search around other forums. I've started another one on DPReview some time ago:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=19653093

 

[Blu-By-U]

Could all this be due to a different sensor the E-330 have?? Have you come across any other Oly models having the same problem??

The RAW image is indeed viewed using the RAW shooter.

 

[cjtune]

Could all this be due to a different sensor the E-330 have?? Have you come across any other Oly models having the same problem??

The RAW image is indeed viewed using the RAW shooter.

Probably... and mine must be also from a batch made on a Monday (joke).

In terms of example pictures, the only other one that has banding as severe as mine (can even be diagonal bands!) is yours... The others I have seen online is more like the picture from the loaned unit I have now.

I have been viewing my RAWs through Olympus Master, and I can still see the bands as they are. Try downloading the two example ORFs I have uploaded previously.

 

[speedblade]

no no .... i believe the bands are there in the RAW data.

Converting to JPEG using Oli will also have the same problem as shooting in JPEG. (that make sense ......)

What i meant was Other RAW converters, not Oli one. Like ACR, Raw Shooter, C1, etc....

It's going to be frustrating looking at defects with no resolution, i feel for you too!!

Take Care.

PS: someone with 30D seems to have similar issues:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1019&thread=20633657

 

[Moonstone]

Probably... and mine must be also from a batch made on a Monday (joke)

They have Monday Blues so that's the problem! :dunno:

 

[cjtune]

no no .... i believe the bands are there in the RAW data.

Converting to JPEG using Oli will also have the same problem as shooting in JPEG. (that make sense ......)

What i meant was Other RAW converters, not Oli one. Like ACR, Raw Shooter, C1, etc....

It's going to be frustrating looking at defects with no resolution, i feel for you too!!

Take Care.

PS: someone with 30D seems to have similar issues:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1019&thread=20633657

Oh, sorry WC. Misunderstood you. Well, I could try the alternative RAW converters out if they support the ORF format ... but in utility it might be of limited usefulness as I can hardly afford to shoot in RAW.

Yeah, I'd make a bigger fuss if I got a more expensive camera like the 20D or even the 1Ds (banding was observed in it too) and I was supposed to come up with pictures that earn a living.

 

[Blu-By-U]

Just reading on this Anti alising...is it possible that this is the cause of it? In this thread, amvrobin mentioned that the leica M8 will not have a AA filter but will handle it thru software. Could it be the same thing in the Oly/E330?

 

[cjtune]

Just reading on this Anti alising...is it possible that this is the cause of it? In this thread, amvrobin mentioned that the leica M8 will not have a AA filter but will handle it thru software. Could it be the same thing in the Oly/E330?

No idea... no background in signals and image processing. I would think AA manifests itself more as Moire which the E-330 isn't susceptible to.

Check-out the link Speedblade provided about banding cases reported by some Canon 30D owners. There were some really technical discussions by some owners as to what was the possible cause.

 

[hann_t]

Blu own a E-330 as well. Please explain what should blu be looking for? What's this "image banding"? From the picture, blu see diagonal "lines" from top right to botton left at about 45 deg clockwise. Is that what you are talking about?

why the heck do you refer to yourself as the third person?

 

[Blu-By-U]

Habit picked up somewhere...

 

[Moonstone]

Habit picked up somewhere...

I know that my Japanese engineer does that! :bsmilie:

 

[drakon09]

why the heck do you refer to yourself as the third person?

Reminds me of The Rock! :bsmilie:

 

[hann_t]

Habit picked up somewhere...

LOL ok

 

[cjtune]

Seems like a long, long, time ago back in '00, the Nikon D1 was also having banding problems and it was due to some malfunctioning electrical component. For some bodies, the component's functional parameters could be tweaked to solve the banding, while for others it'll require a replacement of that part:

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-3682-3703

The banded images shown in the page is somewhat similar to what some of my high ISO images cough up. More diagonal than horizontal banding.

Hmm. No reply yet from the Olympus service centre. Was initially assured that it could be calibrated by "early this week" but maybe they're having difficulties or have discovered the hardware is uncooperative to tweaking and must be replaced. :think:

 

[microcosm]

Seems like a long, long, time ago back in '00, the Nikon D1 was also having banding problems and it was due to some malfunctioning electrical component. For some bodies, the component's functional parameters could be tweaked to solve the banding, while for others it'll require a replacement of that part:

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-3682-3703

The banded images shown in the page is somewhat similar to what some of my high ISO images cough up. More diagonal than horizontal banding.

Hmm. No reply yet from the Olympus service centre. Was initially assured that it could be calibrated by "early this week" but maybe they're having difficulties or have discovered the hardware is uncooperative to tweaking and must be replaced. :think:

Looks like you will be getting a new camera afterall. That is good news!

 

[cjtune]

Looks like you will be getting a new camera afterall. That is good news!

I really hope so! :angel:

 

[Blu-By-U]

Anymore news? Waiting for yours, then only decide if it's worth sending blu's unit in.

 

[cjtune]

Anymore news? Waiting for yours, then only decide if it's worth sending blu's unit in.

Latest news from 1 minute ago... they're changing the NMOS sensor of my unit.