E-330 horizontal banding and lackadaisical Oly support

[Blu-By-U]

Sorry tomcat for sounding nitpicky..me only trying to see if it's the sensor, lemon or what is causing that banding. I too am considering to bring my E-330 back to the center to complain. I now have 3 issues. This banding, hot pixel and loose zoom ring on the 14~45. Only sad thing is I need to take a 1/2 day leave just for that.

 

[tomcat]

Frankly, I know of no DSLR that does not produce some artifacts of one kind or another at such high ISO speeds and deliberately under-exposed to boot but those banding examples posted by you and cjtune are indeed not normal to my eyes and do warrant a visit to the service center as are mechanical defects in lenses. Evaluation of hot pixel problems could be subjective though unless there are so many that it is obvious to the eye without viewing at 100%.

 

[Mikefellh]

Wonder if it's a similar issue that effects the Leica M8...if both sensors were made by Panasonic, they may have the same issue. See:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0611/06111001leicam8statement.asp

 

[tomcat]

The banding issues of the M8 is apparently related to the high sensitivity of its sensor to IR. The 27 x 18mm CCD sensor of the M8 is made by Kodak (Kodak KAF-10500) and not by Panasonic.

 

[Blu-By-U]

Don't think it should be compared to the M8 but more of the Digilux 3.

 

[cjtune]

Called the Assistant Service Manager Mr.Goh today.
Apparently their current action on my case is to wait for a response from Tokyo, whenever that will be.
I have a bad feeling this will drag on forever.

 

[Mikefellh]

Don't think it should be compared to the M8 but more of the Digilux 3.

At the time I wrote that, I had assumed that the source of the imagers for both the M8 and the Digilux3/L1/E-330 came from Panasonic.

I only tried to help with a suggestion, someone has already corrected my error, I consider that portion of the thread closed.

 

[cjtune]

Here are some shots to illustrate that this problem cannot be easily avoided by just setting to a 'correct' exposure or deliberate overexposure. These were taken recently (no points for guessing at where):

At ISO1600, EV0, matrix metering:

At ISO1000, EV +0.7, matrix metering:

At ISO1600, EV +2.0, matrix metering:

Exposure is a continuous variable throughout a picture, relative on how or what in the picture is metered to the photographer's best interpretation of the mood or setting of the shot. There will surely be areas that will be under and over-exposed. One thing you may have noticed is that these pictures are of the high contrast type.

 

[Blu-By-U]

Was looking at hhho's pictures. nothing on his all clear and sharp...think the E-330 is a lemon. (He is using the E-300)

 

[OlyFlyer]

cjtune,

In your #136 and #137 you show something new. Is that another way to check for the banding? Indeed, very interesting an actually genious to take a black image and inver it. Maybe something sompletely different. Could it be shadow of the actual sensor surface? Or something from the camera itself? Maybe the surface of the IR filter in front of the sensor? Maybe reflections from the same filter? The lens issue can be removed if the lens is removed and the lens bay is covered, maybe moving into a dark room will also help to block stray light. What I am worried about is that there is a strange carpet like pattern. I would only expect to see hot pixels and noise not any pattern.

Can that only be seen in jpeg? How about ORF and TIFF? Have you tried?

 

[cjtune]

Hi OlyFlyer.

I took the ISO1600, 6sec exposure +NR image again but this time with no lens and the open lens mount pressed down against my bed mattress to shut out all light. Viewfinder shutter closed, no Liveview. The result is about the same (5MB zipped ORF):
http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=eac935df3ddf48b578e323667d7c6021

Here's a smaller preview (JPEG, resized to 800x600, colour-negative):

Another E-330 owner on DPReview's forum has done the same with his E-330 and his wasn't as bad:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=20926765

As you've noticed, the problem with my camera's noise is not so much the noise itself but the weird burlap-like pattern that is an eyesore.

 

[Blu-By-U]

cjtune, not sure about your workflow but here is how I tested my e-330

Removed the lens, use the black cover that came with the camera close the eyepiece shutter with the built-in shutter. Set NR to off EV to -1.0 exposed for 6 sec, The image is totally black. then in open in Painshop Pro X, in {Image} I selected {Negative Image} the pic is white with some red/pink dots unless I expand to 100%


Then I did again with NR = on, EV-1, S=4 sec, same convert to negative image, now it's blue dots

NR=on EV-1 S=3.2 Pink again

NR=on EV-1 S=1sec This is still pink but off white.

No banding is seen. Why??

 

[cjtune]

cjtune, not sure about your workflow but here is how I tested my e-330

Removed the lens, use the black cover that came with the camera close the eyepiece shutter with the built-in shutter. Set NR to off EV to -1.0 exposed for 6 sec, The image is totally black. then in open in Painshop Pro X, in {Image} I selected {Negative Image} the pic is white with some red/pink dots unless I expand to 100%


Then I did again with NR = on, EV-1, S=4 sec, same convert to negative image, now it's blue dots

NR=on EV-1 S=3.2 Pink again

NR=on EV-1 S=1sec This is still pink but off white.

No banding is seen. Why??

Adjust the histogram. I truncated the 0.01% darkest and 0.01% lightest pixels. This in effect, brings out the contrast between non-dark (or non-white; if colour-negative) and totally dark pixels. If in complete darkness with no noise, the NMOS photosites' non-dark pixels can only be the result of noise.

 

[Blu-By-U]

Too late. I just handed the camera to Olympus Malaysia. The engineer says mine is the only case. :bigeyes:

 

[drakon09]

Wow, who is the engineer kidding?

Or are you really that unlucky?

 

[Blu-By-U]

Better not put names here but I asked him if he reads forums, he recommended me to read dpreview 's forum... so I told him that there are scores of complaints there. :bigeyes: he went oh!! :bigeyes:

 

[Mikefellh]

Better not put names here but I asked him if he reads forums, he recommended me to read dpreview 's forum... so I told him that there are scores of complaints there.

I wouldn't say scores of complaints, especially considering the amount of people there.

Anyway, Olympus recently won a J.D.Power award for consumer satisfaction for dSLRs $600 and up.

 

[wrx_sti_22b]

Too late. I just handed the camera to Olympus Malaysia. The engineer says mine is the only case. :bigeyes:

Maybe other units of E-330 also the same but the owner dunno how to see, like me...

 

[cjtune]

There have been many observations of the E-330's banding at high ISOs, but I've not seen any example pictures with that sort of noise worser than mine or Blu's. The other E330 owners are either OK with or unaware of the banding, in the way they currently take photos with their E330's. Either way, it's peace-of-mind for them, I guess.

On DPReview:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=17623536
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=19565811
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1022&message=17643648&q=e+330+banding&qf=m

E-500 has it as well??
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1022&message=20268184&q=banding&qf=m

My own thread there...:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=19653093&changemode=1


Elsewhere:

http://www.fourthirdsphoto.com/vbb/archive/index.php/t-2151.html

There is also some horizontal banding at ISO 1600 in the shadows, but it will never be visible in print, and you will need an LCD monitor for it to really show its ugly head.

http://www.fot-o-grafiti.hr/clanci.php?id=117
(I strongly dispute that the bands will never be visible in print and it only appears more on LCD monitors)

syntaxerr0r
05-12-2006, 02:34 AM
I've had my 330 for about 2 weeks now and keep playing with it. What a fantastic camera! My only beef concerns the 1600 ISO performance, very grainy and heavy banding, but I rarely use it anyway.

http://www.fourthirdsphoto.com/vbb/archive/index.php/t-3122.html

These polish fellas seem to be talking about the same phenomena in an E-system thread but not specifically about the E-330:
http://www.olympusclub.pl/forum/vie...previous&sid=bf4a03ad53e104e3e35bd58827ba9440
(You'll need www.poltran.com)


Being a minority (as in "you're the first/only case I've heard!") should not equate to being ignored or having lesser importance placed on to your case. But heck, minorities of any kind in the real world have a tendency to be sidelined .

 

[Blu-By-U]

Maybe other units of E-330 also the same but the owner dunno how to see, like me...

Try this. Set ISO to 1600 then at the EV, -1.0 then shoot anything with a flat out of focus background. It can be a table lamp or even a flat wall. Then look at the background.

When I was at the Olympus service desk, I just shot their wall signboard. The other part's of the off white wall showed the banding and the engineer went ooohhh... when he saw it.