DSLR newbie - how to prevent 'blown out' skies?

[aryanto]

Morning everyone and thanks for all your replies,
For (3) does anyone have any information about mounting GND filters to Olympus lens and any tips on using them? Like tips on positioning the filter for group shots, i.e. positioning the "line" where the graduation on the filter begins. Should it be positioned directly above the group, or in relation to the sun, or position the graduated part of the filter so it covers as much of the sky as possible?

Any comments, advice or suggestions are welcome. Thanks

Try 1 & 2 first and see if that solves your problem.
Yeah, entry level olympus probably need to be stopped down a bit.

Gradual ND filter is a bracket type so it will be more expensive ie you have to buy the bracket, the adaptor to fit to your lense diameter and the ND filter glass itself.
I am using Cokin filter system but some people say tianya also not bad and a lot cheaper.
You might want to get tianya bracket etc but buy cokin glass. I think their size is the same.

Normally you do not want the shade to cover any human at all. Not even a bit.
Unless they are also exposed.
Probably it is fine to let some cover the hair but if it is a group shot, normally the height is not the same so you might accidentally shade the tallest person.

 

[dingzyangz]

camera do not have that wide dynamic range to capture the entire scene. its either u get the foreground correctly exposed with ur sky will be blown out or you have a nice sky but ur foreground is in shadow. the timing when you take the picture is a major factor thus most of us would prefer the timing like 30min after sunrise or 30min before sunset where the quality of light is better. midday light would be the harshest thus the difficulty will be higher.

1) Flash would not be of much use if you are doing landscape. because u cant expect ur flash to light up the entire foreground. it is only applicable if you are doing portraits. even so, what you have to do is to meter for the sky first and get a reading (off ur external flash when doing so). Use manual mode and dial in those values and shoot ur subject with flash on. You might have to manual ur flash power output to get it correct. Thus this allows ur sky to be properly exposed with ur subjects lit up.

3) Tianya Filters cost abt $75 bucks. search around the forum and you should be able to find someone selling it. he mails it to ur house too for a postage fee of cos. When using GND, you will need to meter the foreground first before putting on ur GND. After that, use manual mode to dial in those values and put ur GND on. Of cos... the dark part of the GND will cover ur sky and darken it to prevent it from being over exposed.

Morning everyone and thanks for all your replies,

After reading all the posts, can I summarise the recommended methods? (also to make it easier for anyone viewing this thread)
1) Use an external flash to illuminate the foreground so that the foreground and sky will have the same metering
2) Follow ClipperSG's suggestion and reduce the shutter speed by 1 stop (will attempt this within the next few weeks hopefully)
3) Buy a GND and use it to reduce the amount of light coming from the background

For (3) does anyone have any information about mounting GND filters to Olympus lens and any tips on using them? Like tips on positioning the filter for group shots, i.e. positioning the "line" where the graduation on the filter begins. Should it be positioned directly above the group, or in relation to the sun, or position the graduated part of the filter so it covers as much of the sky as possible?

Any comments, advice or suggestions are welcome. Thanks

 

[Titan10k]

Since we're talking about GND, can the Tianya/Tokin filter system be used on lenses with rotating front element on focusing?

 

[KangS]

To answer the TS's question, the problems can be solved without any filters if you're prepared to spend a little time after shooting to correct the flaws.

1) For landscapes, first switch to 'Spot metering' mode. Meter the sky, then meter the darker areas in the picture at the desired aperture setting using "aperture priority" mode (usually f/8 to f/11 at ISO 100)). Note the differences in Shutter speed while metering these two extremes.
Say the sky is 1/2000 and the darker areas is 1/200? Then switch to "manual" mode and choose a shutter that's somewhere in between the two extremes, say 1/800 or 1/1000 and take the photo. Back home, adjust the highlights and exposure as required in Photoshop using composite layers and masking. You'll preserve most of the highlights and shadows to sufficiently retrieve the data in RAW.

2) For groups, meter the shot using "evaluative" and use the flash. It will take care of the highlights of the sky and background. The flash will take care of the group in the shot.

These generally will work but you may need to vary your work flow to extract the most out your camera and tweak your settings to suit your camera.

Good luck!

 

[Kit]

Since we're talking about GND, can the Tianya/Tokin filter system be used on lenses with rotating front element on focusing?

Any filter can be used. Rotating front or not doesn't matter if you know what you are doing.

 

[aero]

Morning everyone and thanks for all your replies,

After reading all the posts, can I summarise the recommended methods? (also to make it easier for anyone viewing this thread)
1) Use an external flash to illuminate the foreground so that the foreground and sky will have the same metering
2) Follow ClipperSG's suggestion and reduce the shutter speed by 1 stop (will attempt this within the next few weeks hopefully)
3) Buy a GND and use it to reduce the amount of light coming from the background

For (3) does anyone have any information about mounting GND filters to Olympus lens and any tips on using them? Like tips on positioning the filter for group shots, i.e. positioning the "line" where the graduation on the filter begins. Should it be positioned directly above the group, or in relation to the sun, or position the graduated part of the filter so it covers as much of the sky as possible?

Any comments, advice or suggestions are welcome. Thanks

You can try getting the TianYa filters from the Mass Order page. A cheap option to try out and learn.

 

[Octarine]

For (3) does anyone have any information about mounting GND filters to Olympus lens and any tips on using them? Like tips on positioning the filter for group shots, i.e. positioning the "line" where the graduation on the filter begins. Should it be positioned directly above the group, or in relation to the sun, or position the graduated part of the filter so it covers as much of the sky as possible?

Hope that helps: http://www.kaleidoscopy.com/portal/GND_filters.htm
Once you have the filter on it becomes a bit self-explaining. You will see the effect immediately in the viewfinder.

 

[Thanatos]

Well, sometimes I get the feeling its easier to shift the sun compared to a group of uncooperative and clueless subjects.

I highly agree.... Even monkeys can be more co-operative then some of the human subject I try to photograph

 

[aryanto]

Example of how Gradual ND filter can help when you have un-even exposure

With Gradual ND filter + Polariser Stacked (Cokin system)

Dark portion is used for the head which is overly exposed cos the figurine was under a spotlight.

Without any filter

- trying to properly expose the face (similar to trying to properly expose "the sky" - resulting at dark bottom portion - for group shots the people may appear darker - hopefully they are not ladies or else you will single handedly drive up the sale of SKII - LOL)

 

[Aljazz]

Just wondering, does adjusting the exposure compensation down help improve this situation?

 

[aryanto]

Just wondering, does adjusting the exposure compensation down help improve this situation?

Yes if the ND grad filter is not yet helping to darken the over-exposure, you need to adjust the compensation down (EV minus).
For example of the shots above, the picture is still over-exposed.
For the final conversion to jpg I did EV-5 on the raw file.
I cannot remember on the shot how many I step down. I probably step down more, cos easier to bring up rather than bring down (for details - if pictures are over exposed).

 

[deregisteraccount]

Greetings aryanto,

A very big thank you for posting those photographs. They're a perfect demonstration of the difference an ND filter can make to a photograph. Can I ask though, did you use only the ND filter? Cos you mentioned Cokin polariser, so I'm assuming you screwed on a polariser onto your lens then fitted the gradual ND filter? And how did you position the line on the Gradual ND filter, the part where the graduation of the filter begins? Was it horizontal or diagonal, etc?

Hope you pardon my asking so many questions but all this time I've been shooting with compact cameras so filters are totally new to me.

 

[chris3210]

i agree with the dynamic range of the camera itself.

 

[aryanto]

Greetings aryanto,

A very big thank you for posting those photographs. They're a perfect demonstration of the difference an ND filter can make to a photograph.

Thank you for your complement.

Can I ask though, did you use only the ND filter? Cos you mentioned Cokin polariser, so I'm assuming you screwed on a polariser onto your lens then fitted the gradual ND filter? And how did you position the line on the Gradual ND filter, the part where the graduation of the filter begins? Was it horizontal or diagonal, etc?

Hope you pardon my asking so many questions but all this time I've been shooting with compact cameras so filters are totally new to me.

I am here to share and hope people find it useful.
I have Cokin. If not wrong it should be P series. You can see how the filters are stacked.
http://www.cokin.com/ico15-A.html

The circular polarizer is there to cut out the reflection since the figurines is inside glass cabinet. If it is outside, probably I will not add the polarizer unless I want to have deep blue sky and reduce the "haze".

Since the figurines is right underneath the spotlight (I am afraid the heat would melt her head but luckily it does not), so the darkest portion of the ND Grad filter is on top, and the clear portion is below.

The circular polarizer is always behind as it has the bracket like that. Cannot put it elsewhere. Other filters can be put in front.

That is all.
Oh, and I am using swivel LCD life view of Olympus E-3 to help me with the height as it is on top shelves.

 

[aryanto]

Other example, flat sky due to too much cloud. You can probably fix this with circular polarizer filter but I forgot to bring mine (left in bus)

OK these are not best landscape shots but I can use to show example of how filters might safe the situation, afterall if you go for package tour (non photography) that will be the only time you go to that site.



But I have my gradual blue filter so mounted that on cokin bracket and screw the bracket in front of my lense, adjust, turn etc focus (auto) and snap. Not perfect, as you can see the rock formation on the left is a bit too blue.