--- Domestic Helper (Maid) Off Day

[Loupisk]

Typo ! leh!

Thread it is! Of course! :bsmilie:

Not directed in this case at your reply but the entire discussion and the position of some(including yours).

This is a medieval way of thinking that some are defending.

Sad it is still like that for some. :dunno:

wow!!! in all my years replying to various forums, this is the first time i'm seen ppl use the word "threat" to describe my reply... :sweat::sweat:

 

[Deadpoet]

I agree with loupisk. I want to puke after reading this thread.

I am not going to reply directly to of the post this time, because I intend to hit hard.

Not all maids are angles, but not all maids are bad either. Not all employers are inhumane, many are in fact very caring. I know and are friends with quite a few of them. Maybe, those who treated their maid badly, I just feel not worth my while to associate with them. Those who defend the current practices, I feel the same for them, not worth my while.

Why are maids in Singapore not protected under the same laws and regulation that protects the rest of the working population? Any other foreign worker, who happened to get pregnant in Singapore, are treated like human beings, but maids are deported? What is the basis of this kind of treatment. The maids are paying how much in taxes? Well, the levies on maid is a form of tax. They definitely pay more tax then anyone in their income bracket, they pay a high tax rate than also anyone in Singapore, definately more then most of the employers.

I can go on and on and on.

 

[NitroTech]

I agree with loupisk. I want to puke after reading this thread.

I am not going to reply directly to of the post this time, because I intend to hit hard.

Not all maids are angles, but not all maids are bad either. Not all employers are inhumane, many are in fact very caring. I know and are friends with quite a few of them. Maybe, those who treated their maid badly, I just feel not worth my while to associate with them. Those who defend the current practices, I feel the same for them, not worth my while.

Why are maids in Singapore not protected under the same laws and regulation that protects the rest of the working population? Any other foreign worker, who happened to get pregnant in Singapore, are treated like human beings, but maids are deported? What is the basis of this kind of treatment. The maids are paying how much in taxes? Well, the levies on maid is a form of tax. They definitely pay more tax then anyone in their income bracket, they pay a high tax rate than also anyone in Singapore, definately more then most of the employers.

I can go on and on and on.

Yeah not all..... some are ANGELS.... but not all are angles....:bsmilie::bsmilie:

 

[NitroTech]

Anyway everyone have their different POVs...... don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I am against day/s off. (Like i said, I even allowed my maid to go for days off but she declined). Just that (like what LazerLordz said) we need to form a law that is fair to the maid and to the employer at the same time.

Let's all agree to disagree.... Cheers!

 

[garou12]

Maid in HK court after sex with boss's teenage son

The 45-year-old had sex with the boy, 14, after watching Internet porn together. -Reuters

Tue, May 06, 2008
Reuters

HONG KONG - A 45-year-old Indonesian maid admitted having sex with her Hong Kong employer's 14-year-old
son after watching Internet porn together, a newspaper reported on Tuesday.


A court heard how the maid, a divorcee and mother of two, had sex with the boy in a relationship that lasted five months, the South China Morning Post reported.


The boy tried to end the affair, but she refused, the paper reported. The teenager eventually confessed to the relationship to the leader of a Christian group he belonged to and the maid was arrested.


The maid, Suwartin, had worked with the boy's extended family for 11 years and pleaded guilty to five charges of
committing an indecent act with an under-age partner, the Post reported.


She later apologised and said she "would live with the shame of what she had done for the rest of her life", the paper
reported.


"She had acted out of loneliness," the paper quoted the maid's lawyer as saying.


She will be sentenced in two weeks' time.


Maids from the Philippines, Indonesia and Sri Lanka are often the subject of court cases in richer neighbours such as Hong Kong and Singapore, but usually as victims of abuse rather than offenders.


Source : http://news.asiaone.com/print/News/Latest+News/Asia/Story/A1Story20080506-63624.html

:bigeyes:wow, by posting this, it really seems like some people are trying to rationalize their justification for treating their maids like slaves...:bigeyes:

 

[Nisa]

After reading all the postings; I reached my own conclusion. Those who have maids, and want their maids to have more days off, go ahead. Those who have maids, and do not want their maids to have so many days off, go ahead. Those who don't have maids, and wants maids to have more days, go ahead. Those who don't have maids, and don't care, go ahead.

how I treat my maids, has nothing to with anyone else. It's my relationship with my maid. And if my maid thinks that i am ill treating or upsetting her in any form, I welcome her to make any reports of any sorts to any one of any sorts.

I still stick by the one day a month.

 

[gsv13]

You sound like hitlers and saddam of their times..like i will not give a dam to the world ..good or bad ..there something to learn from these legends do give a tickle.

one thing for sure in life what one is not sure is Misfortune ...offcourse i donot mean this for anyone ..but do good deeds there's much bigger things than the contracts and agreement in this world .

Be good to all you will get goodness ....else you never know how good or bad days one has in his/her future .

Cheers i'm not trying to preach ..but yes when one has an option to create good wibes lets create them..for a better world.

The other way round any animal can do it ..u need not be a human

 

[Nisa]

You sound like hitlers and saddam of their times..like i will not give a dam to the world ..good or bad ..there something to learn from these legends do give a tickle.

one thing for sure in life what one is not sure is Misfortune ...offcourse i donot mean this for anyone ..but do good deeds there's much bigger things than the contracts and agreement in this world .

Be good to all you will get goodness ....else you never know how good or bad days one has in his/her future .

Cheers i'm not trying to preach ..but yes when one has an option to create good wibes lets create them..for a better world.

The other way round any animal can do it ..u need not be a human

Well... what can I say. I wish I am someone who would be mentioned in the history. But i doubt i would.

And next Good luck to you, should ever want to get a maid.

Lastly i disagree with this statement "Be good to all you will get goodness ....else you never know how good or bad days one has in his/her future ." ALL my friends and family can testified that this is not happening to me. But i had accepted it, cause LIFE IS UNFAIR! and the only way out is death! pressing the reset button.

 

[Loupisk]

This discussion is pointless as long as the Gov does not give proper basic working conditions to the maids. Like a minimum of off days per month.

This country enjoys cheapo labour in many places of its economy, like the construction sector, the F&B outlets and the personnal helpers.

SG is spoiled by this cheap and disposable source of labour.

Remove it and things would not be as easy as it is.

 

[Sunburst]

I had read this thread from the beginning and my comments are that most employers of domestic helper are faced with an employment contract that requires them to either give their maids a rest day, or compensate them accordingly for working. However, some employers have sought ways to get around the terms or extract the most from their workers and likewise there are employers who give their maids one or two off days a month or even on special occasions like Christmas Day, sending a fellow friend at the airport, etc.

I believe most of us must have also read from a "TODAY" straw poll of 50 employers, it found that only 62 per cent gave their maids a rest day and in my opinion, there are several simple reasons why many Singaporean employers are reluctant to give their maids a day off due to the reasons below:

a) You see, if the maid runs away, the government will fine the employer $5,000. If the maid commits a crime such as shoplifting, the government will fine the employer $5,000.

b) If the maid is caught having sex with someone, the government will fine the employer $5,000. If the maid gets pregnant, the government will also fine the employer $5,000.
(Oh, and you have to send your maid for a pregnancy test every six months).

If you didn't know any of the above, then either you do not employ a maid, or you didn't read the small print of the Manpower Ministry's work permit conditions.

Many employers are afraid that if their maid has a day off and gets into trouble, the employer will not only have to solve the trouble, but also have to fork out $5,000 to the authorities. (Not that the government will then help you solve the trouble. It's just a fine, plain & simple).

Intuitively, this smacks of gross unfairness. The employer gets punished not for something he did, but for something that somebody else (the maid) did. Furthermore, once the maid leaves the employer's residence, the employer has no way of monitoring where the maid goes and what she does there.

To encourage employers to give their maids a day off, the government needs to amend these rules.

I agree that employers should be fined and punished, if they fail to perform their responsibilities as employers - for example, paying the maid's salary on time; providing adequate food, medical and accommodation; and ensuring a safe, secure working environment.

But employers should not be held responsible, for things that a maid may do, of her own free will. When the maid goes out on her rest day, the employer simply has no viable way to ensure that she will not do anything that breaches her work permit conditions. (Which, by the way, are quite extensive and onerous).

Strangely, if your maid runs away, it IS your fault and you SHOULD be punished. Even if you did not personally do anything to let her run away (apart from giving her a day off). and similarly, if your maid becomes pregnant, it IS your fault and you SHOULD be punished. Even if you did not personally do anything to make her pregnant.:angel:

Oh well. What can I say? Maids are not terrorists and the rules stacked against you even though the lapse is no far greater, and graver, implications than the recent missing person because you won't get off lightly.

 

[sORe-EyEz]

mayb bosses who hire foreigners should be made equally liable? the double standards are so glaring even the blind can tell the difference. the law treat maids like they're underaged kids... :thumbsd:

w/ so many strings attached its can be difficult in pinning the blame when things go wrong. its time to simplify the whole hiring process. where's the initiative for positive change?

even grand plans (like Newater) need the first step to achieve success.

 

[wildstallion]

Maid in HK court after sex with boss's teenage son

The 45-year-old had sex with the boy, 14, after watching Internet porn together. -Reuters

Tue, May 06, 2008
Reuters

HONG KONG - A 45-year-old Indonesian maid admitted having sex with her Hong Kong employer's 14-year-old
son after watching Internet porn together, a newspaper reported on Tuesday.


A court heard how the maid, a divorcee and mother of two, had sex with the boy in a relationship that lasted five months, the South China Morning Post reported.


The boy tried to end the affair, but she refused, the paper reported. The teenager eventually confessed to the relationship to the leader of a Christian group he belonged to and the maid was arrested.


The maid, Suwartin, had worked with the boy's extended family for 11 years and pleaded guilty to five charges of
committing an indecent act with an under-age partner, the Post reported.


She later apologised and said she "would live with the shame of what she had done for the rest of her life", the paper
reported.


"She had acted out of loneliness," the paper quoted the maid's lawyer as saying.


She will be sentenced in two weeks' time.


Maids from the Philippines, Indonesia and Sri Lanka are often the subject of court cases in richer neighbours such as Hong Kong and Singapore, but usually as victims of abuse rather than offenders.


Source : http://news.asiaone.com/print/News/Latest+News/Asia/Story/A1Story20080506-63624.html

Two can play this game:

Singapore accused of maid neglect

Affluent Singaporeans often hire maids from abroad
Female migrant workers in Singapore face what amounts to forced labour due to a lack of legal protection, US-based rights campaigners say.

Human Rights Watch (HRW) said domestic workers were overworked and frequently denied food, pay and social contact, as well as suffering physical abuse.

Singapore's government said the report "grossly exaggerates" the situation.

Maids working throughout South East Asia complain of abuse. HRW produced a similar report on Malaysia last year.

Some 150,000 women work as maids in Singapore, mainly from Indonesia, the Philippines and Sri Lanka.

The report paints a grim picture of young women trapped in apartment blocks, beaten, sometimes raped, killed or driven to suicide by their employers.

The authors of the report say they believe such abuse is widespread in Singapore. In the past six years, at least 147 domestic workers have died in the city state.

Excluded

The rights group interviewed 90 people and conducted case studies to compile its 128-page report, Maid to Order - Ending abuses against migrant domestic workers in Singapore.

HRW argues that by excluding maids from its Employment Act, Singapore is failing to comply with international law.

"A system that excludes a class of workers from labour protections, leaving them to work for 16 hours a day, seven days a week, for pitifully low wages is one that demands serious and meaningful reform," it says.

But Singapore's government denied it was exploiting the maids.

"On their own accord, FDWs [foreign domestic workers] choose to work in Singapore because of better conditions here compared to their home and other countries.

"Contrary to HRW's report, the majority of FDWs enjoy meaningful and safe employment in Singapore. An independent poll by Singapore Press Holdings in Dec 2003, revealed that over 80% of FDWs were happy to work in Singapore," the Ministry of Manpower said on its website.

Harsh conditions

One domestic worker cited in the report complained of overwork.

"Sometimes employers want the maid to clean until 2200 or midnight and to start working again at 0600," she said.

Another maid told HRW: "Sometimes there was not enough food... They bought food from outside, but not for me. When angry, [the employer] would throw my food in the rubbish... I was very scared. My employer told me, 'Tomorrow you have a punishment, no eating.'"

Foreign and domestic workers in Singapore at present have no right to any time off. As of next year, employers will be obliged to give them one day off a month or financial compensation.

But the report says the women should be given the same rights as other workers in Singapore.

The authors say Singapore is by no means the worst offender in the region, but they argue that this tightly controlled city state could improve conditions very easily, giving many thousands of vulnerable women greater control over their lives.

 

[wildstallion]

Number two:

Singaporean accused of maid abuse

Affluent Singaporeans often hire maids from abroad
A Singaporean woman has been charged with 80 counts of physically abusing her Indonesian maid, the Straits Times has reported.

It is thought to be the highest number of offences against a maid ever filed against one person in the city-state.

Sazarina Madzin is accused of punching, slapping and hitting the maid with objects such as bottles, shoes and a plastic chopping-board.

She is also charged with threatening to kill her.

If found guilty on all counts, Ms Madzin could face more than eight years in jail.

More than 140,000 women - mainly from the Philippines, Indonesia and Sri Lanka - are employed as domestic workers in Singapore.

According to the Straits Times, it took a court official about 30 minutes to read all the charges against 28-year-old Ms Madzin.

 

[wildstallion]

Well... what can I say. I wish I am someone who would be mentioned in the history. But i doubt i would.

Im actually shocked you wrote that!

Maybe you'll kill yourself like Hitler or be executed like Saddam. Either way...... :thumbsd:

 

[Pinoy]

a) You see, if the maid runs away, the government will fine the employer $5,000.

Not that straightforward.

If the maid commits a crime such as shoplifting, the government will fine the employer $5,000.

Any links to back this up?

b) If the maid is caught having sex with someone, the government will fine the employer $5,000. If the maid gets pregnant, the government will also fine the employer $5,000. (Oh, and you have to send your maid for a pregnancy test every six months).

Not true. The medical test isn't just for pregnancy btw. It's to check for infectious diseases (TB, HIV etc). Note that other workers are required to undergo such examination as well, though not as frequently as maids.

If you didn't know any of the above, then either you do not employ a maid, or you didn't read the small print of the Manpower Ministry's work permit conditions.

For the record, I once had a maid, and having gone through the briefing and all that.. not to mention that my sister in law used to work for a maid agency... I must say I "didn't know" any of the above. I'd think that these are mostly misconceptions and perhaps "scare tactics" being spread by you know who....

Many employers are afraid that if their maid has a day off and gets into trouble, the employer will not only have to solve the trouble, but also have to fork out $5,000 to the authorities. (Not that the government will then help you solve the trouble. It's just a fine, plain & simple).

I believe that part and parcel of the issue is the "unfair" requirements/rules being enforced by the government. As can be seen from your post, that $5,000 security bond is really scaring employers' asses off. This is one of the reasons I believe why some employers are not giving their maids day off, and to some extent restricting their movement (i.e. can't go elsewhere or can't talk to "strangers" etc).

However, all these should really fall on the shoulders of the employers. If you do not agree to the rules and are afraid of the "what-ifs" in getting a foreign domestic worker... why get one? Seriously? :dunno: One might say that having a maid is a necessity. If that's the case, why pass the burden on to the maids by not giving them a life outside of your home? Give them some rest, or heaven forbid, they might snap up and cause you harm (in one way or another). I'm sure as working adults, we've had bouts with stress at work and at home. What makes you think that foreign domestic workers are immune from that?

:Later,