does anyone dislike G lens as much as i do?

[tkbonz]

No is not about film vs digital. There are still film shooters, but all camera companies actually develop their equipment according to the market needs. If their sales chart shows that there are more film cameras sold, they will develop their lens according to film camera maybe a better lens with aperture rings. But now, the chart shows digital cameras are selling like hotcakes, so no reason they shall spend their money R&D on lens for film camera right?

Compatibility has always been defined as forward compatibility, that older lens will work on newer bodies. It is not usual to demand that newer lens must work with older body.

Now the AF mount have been with us for like 20 years, almost. FE2 was like introduced in 1983, F3 1981 or so. We have had more than 20 plus years of compatibility. Asking that they be forever compatible to all lenses is asking a bit too much, isn't it? In today's DSLR termination, 3 years is a lifetime. 20+ years is truly long long time.

And counting backwards and with AI converted lenses, I have 50+ plus years of compatibility with my D300, and nearly 60 years with my D60. I can't ask for more, especially when I had the choice of choosing a Canon A-1 vs a Nikon FE-2 to make and came out the better. My second piece of Nikkor is still with me, and works with both my D300 and my D60. Of course I cannot make my AFS 60mm to work with my FE2, I don't expect it to, cause with the forward technology I am using newer bodies with older lenses.

I have a Nikon F Photomic FTn that needs the "rabbit ears" to meter, which has dissappeared the day AF lenses came around - not backward compatible. I have FE2 as well, and G lenses not backward compatible. But we have to move on.

You will have a more horrid time when you review the specs of the PCE lenses... even less backward compatible...

I agree with you. But for me, its just a big SIGH. Of course, it will be fantastic if most lenses are backward/forward compatible. But as time passes, technology advances and economic efficiency changes things which can't be helped.

Isisaxon idea of two set of lenses is a good idea, but I no money...

But for me, some lenses are "somewhere in between", compromise between film and digital. For example the AF-S 17-35 f2.8 and the AF-D 80-200 f2.8, both very good lens which can be used by old film cameras (like my FE2) and modern DSLRS. Of course, the new 14-24 an 70-200vr supercedes the above two lens currently if you're not thinking about old film cameras. (Thats why i'm tempted to get those two lenses...yum)

 

[gymak90]

I don't own nikon film slrs so G or non-G doesn't make a difference to me.
G lenses are not really a feature you would go around bragging about. It's a cost-saving way of making lenses because Nikon foresaw that digitally controlling aperture will be prefered in the future?

That said, I have used lenses with aperture rings before, and sometimes it irkes me when I can't shoot because I have accidentally shift the ring from the minimum aperture :bsmilie:
Plus you can play with the decimals on aperture settings when controlling it digitally.

It's good if new products are made backward & forward compatible. But it could be expensive and not worthwhile to do so. How many true-blue film slrs users are there now? Compared to that huge population of dslr users. Just like you can't ask for Windows Vista to be installed in a Pentium comp?

 

[karnage]

If I may chip in my share of frustration, I find it quite irritating that I can't use old manual focus lenses on lower-end dSLRs to METER. I'm fine with manual focus, manual aperture adjustment and all, but I think metering should be a basic camera function... shouldn't it?

Right now, only the Dx00 series can meter and I think they're rather big to carry around, although they feel lighter than, or as light as my FM2n.

 

[lsisaxon]

If I may chip in my share of frustration, I find it quite irritating that I can't use old manual focus lenses on lower-end dSLRs to METER. I'm fine with manual focus, manual aperture adjustment and all, but I think metering should be a basic camera function... shouldn't it?

Right now, only the Dx00 series can meter and I think they're rather big to carry around, although they feel lighter than, or as light as my FM2n.

So the 'chip in' is intended as a pun, I suppose? ;p

 

[karnage]

So the 'chip in' is intended as a pun, I suppose? ;p

Haha! Actually, no! I didn't think of that. But now that you mention it, that's a good one! Hahahaha!

Anyways, suppose Nikon could really put the chip, wouldn't it be in the lens rather than in the camera? Actually, I don't really understand how metering in-camera works. I always thought that metering was done by measuring the amount of light through the lens so I didn't understand why only the Dx00 series could meter older lens.

I think it's good that Nikon still uses the same mount as many years ago for compatibility, but without metering on the "lower" bodies, it really is a cripple. :dunno:

I so wish there were a smaller (read less bulky, not necessarily lighter) body that can meter old manual focus lens.

 

[diediealsomustdive]

It's good if new products are made backward & forward compatible. But it could be expensive and not worthwhile to do so. How many true-blue film slrs users are there now? Compared to that huge population of dslr users. Just like you can't ask for Windows Vista to be installed in a Pentium comp?

Part of the "G" progress is one of cost, the other is the control of aperture from the camera body. So when all controls are from the body, aperture ring is no longer needed. And like I have said, 20+ years of backward compatibility is quite something already.

Not flaming time, but did anyone check when Minolta (Konica Minolta and Sony to some of you) and Canon went "G"? I can't be certain, but I think Minolta went "G" sometime 1985, and Canon did the same a year or two later. No aperture ring for don't know how long already.

And how about no compatibility vs limited compatibility? If you had a bag of Minolta MC/MD Rokkors, or Canon FD lenses, you have zero compatibility going forward.

Actually, I don't really understand how metering in-camera works. I always thought that metering was done by measuring the amount of light through the lens so I didn't understand why only the Dx00 series could meter older lens.

I think it's good that Nikon still uses the same mount as many years ago for compatibility, but without metering on the "lower" bodies, it really is a cripple. :dunno:

I so wish there were a smaller (read less bulky, not necessarily lighter) body that can meter old manual focus lens.

Well, metering is measuring the amount of light coming through, but with no electronic communication between older lenses and new lower end bodies, the camera has no way of knowing what aperture is set.

In the good olds days when all cameras had a way to do depth-of-field preview (or stop the aperture to shooting aperture instead of wide open), we could always measure the light via stopped down metering, i.e. measuring the light coming whatever the aperture. This allows metering with microscope, telescope and whatever else you can attach to the camera, and assuming there's enough light to get there to meter to begin with.

The Dx00 (from 200 onwards) and Dx onwards compatibility - they have that mechanical linkage you find in FM2, FE2 etc since Nikkormat FT2/Nikon EL2. So you can see a spring loaded ring that move with precision around the mount is expensive to make for lower end cameras.

And the expectation is that lower end cameras are for newbies, not experienced old hands who should go for the high end DSLR.

So old hands like me who want to use D60 for travelling will have to get a small bag of AF lenses to get metering.

And give it time, to have 2 sets of lenses after a few years is not too hard. I have several sets, as an old hand, far too many for my wife's liking. My lens list reads AFD20-35, AFD28-70, AFD70-300ED, AF35, AFD50/1.8, AFS60G, AF85/1.8, AFS18-55GDX, AFS18-70GDX, AFS18-135GDX, pre-Ai 50/1.4, Ai 50/2, Ai-mod 24/2.8, Ai-mod 28/3.5, Ai 28/2.8, pre-Ai 105/2.5 (2 copies), AiS 105/2.5, Tokina AiS 400/5.6, Sigma HSM 10-20 (DX). I usually can have at least 3 lenses whatever format I go for, film, Digital DX, FX, old pre-Ai SLR. Heck I have 3 50mm lenses.

All my lenses will work with my D60 (ok I lose metering on some, AF on others), but what the heck.

In fact my D60 will work with more lenses than my D300 would.

That's compatibility.

 

[lsisaxon]

Not flaming time, but did anyone check when Minolta (Konica Minolta and Sony to some of you) and Canon went "G"? I can't be certain, but I think Minolta went "G" sometime 1985, and Canon did the same a year or two later. No aperture ring for don't know how long already.

Canon went 'G'? They revamped the entire mount, leaving the FD people cursing and swearing that the entire FD system went obsolete overnight! :sweat:

 

[lsisaxon]

Haha! Actually, no! I didn't think of that. But now that you mention it, that's a good one! Hahahaha!

Anyways, suppose Nikon could really put the chip, wouldn't it be in the lens rather than in the camera? Actually, I don't really understand how metering in-camera works. I always thought that metering was done by measuring the amount of light through the lens so I didn't understand why only the Dx00 series could meter older lens.

I think it's good that Nikon still uses the same mount as many years ago for compatibility, but without metering on the "lower" bodies, it really is a cripple. :dunno:

I so wish there were a smaller (read less bulky, not necessarily lighter) body that can meter old manual focus lens.

The lower end bodies did not have the mechanical couplings to detect the maximum aperture and where the aperture ring is set to, so it will require some form of electronic means to tell the body how to control the aperture on the lens. That's why for AF-D lenses, the aperture must be set to the minimum aperture as well.
If I'm not wrong, D90 should be able to meter with AiS lenses (or for that matter, any optics that can be mounted) in the LV mode. ;p

 

[giantcanopy]

I do not fight immutable changes. In fact I embrace them.
Nikon has pampered users with great backward compatibilities compared to FD/EF mount transitions.

Meanwhile just keep the older lenses for the older film bodies, or upgrade to a compatible film body ( which we can get for quite a bargain )

Ryan

 

[NikLeica]

Its sad as I have always considered Nikon as one of the leaders in ensuring backward compatibility with their lenses as a testament to the quality of their legacy camera bodies.

Although old cameras are being phased out, it may also represent some potential market if they did not use the G lenses as owners of old cameras might be tempted to try a new lens.

Electronic aperture control may fail and a dial in that event may just make the difference between a shot or no shot.

I hope Nikon would seriously consider being different rather than follow the trend on account that they are the only brand where camera bodies from the 60s till today are still being deployed in large numbers and mounted on their bodies are lenses that are to-date.

 

[Daedalus Trent]

Well...i don't really care since G or not, I change aperture via the DSLR's control dials :bsmilie:

and since G lenses are cheaper, why not? I (and many other consumers included) don't wanna pay for features i'm not going to use! :think:

 

[giantcanopy]

Electronic aperture control may fail and a dial in that event may just make the difference between a shot or no shot.

If the electronic aperture for example on a digital body fails, would you be able to substitute the control of aperture via the aperture ring on the lens ?

 

[zac08]

If the electronic aperture for example on a digital body fails, would you be able to substitute the control of aperture via the aperture ring on the lens ?

No.. I tried changing the aperture manually and make it appear like a manual lens, but the camera does not allow it... mebbe if I tape up the electrical contacts... :think:

 

[Daedalus Trent]

No.. I tried changing the aperture manually and make it appear like a manual lens, but the camera does not allow it... mebbe if I tape up the electrical contacts... :think:

good good! Try then share with us!!

 

[lsisaxon]

No.. I tried changing the aperture manually and make it appear like a manual lens, but the camera does not allow it... mebbe if I tape up the electrical contacts... :think:

I think D200 and above allows that, I remember there is an option in the menu that lets you choose whether you want to control the aperture using the aperture ring or dial. Even though I've been using the ring for film, I feel much more comfortable using the dials now. ;p

It's under the Custom Settings->Customize Command Dials (D700-f9; D3,D300-f7; D2X,D200-f5)->Aperture Settings. If set at the aperture ring mode, you can only use the aperture ring to control aperture in M and A mode. You'll definitely have to use the ring for non-CPU lenses (P and S modes not available). It automatically switches to the dial control if you mount a G lens.

 

[zac08]

I think D200 and above allows that, I remember there is an option in the menu that lets you choose whether you want to control the aperture using the aperture ring or dial. Even though I've been using the ring for film, I feel much more comfortable using the dials now. ;p

It's under the Custom Settings->Customize Command Dials (D700-f9; D3,D300-f7; D2X,D200-f5)->Aperture Settings. If set at the aperture ring mode, you can only use the aperture ring to control aperture in M and A mode. You'll definitely have to use the ring for non-CPU lenses (P and S modes not available). It automatically switches to the dial control if you mount a G lens.

I see.. yeah... tried that before... ended up I got too lazy.... :sweat::bsmilie:

 

[giantcanopy]

... mebbe if I tape up the electrical contacts... :think:

:bigeyes: very adventurous :thumbsup:

Ryan

 

[gymak90]

Yea i agree, why should I pay for something when I'm not likely going to use it.

It is rather unthinkable for electronic aperture to fail. If it happens, you should be at nsc making noise. :bsmilie: Rather than feeling lucky that you might be able to use the aperture ring as a secondary option.

mebbe if I tape up the electrical contacts... :think:

I support you! The govt is encouraging adventurous people like you. Haha. Maybe it can be done, like how canon users tape the last 2 contacts to avoid hunting.

 

[zac08]

It's gonna be some time until I'm really free to test things out... :sweat:

 

[photobum]

The thing I hate about 'G' lenses is not just the absence of an aperture ring, but also how plasticky they feel.

For example the 17-55 f2.8G feels doesn't feel as solid as the older 20-35 f2.8D, or my current workhorse, the 17-35 f2.8D. My 80-200 f2.8D uses more glass (thus feels heavier) than the 70-200 f2.8G.

Therefore, instead of jumping onto the 'G' lens bandwagon, I took the 'ZF' route instead.