I think the GXR is just as good because it does not have the AA filter. The photos all look very clean. A new NEX 5N is now going for $1040 w 2 lenses + freebies, very good price.
Do I need an M9
- Thread starter ziggy
- Start date
I think the GXR is just as good because it does not have the AA filter. The photos all look very clean. A new NEX 5N is now going for $1040 w 2 lenses + freebies, very good price.
Williamchan
New Member
Purely my view:
Before switching to compact camera (listed below), iam using only DSLR D200 & D700 with all trinity len only.
Having been a user for Fujifilm X-Pro (With M Adapter), Nex 5, Ricoh GXR. Definitely the Ricoh GXR is better with M lenses in term of color and quality of the photo. Do note that the M Module is specially designed for using the M Mount (to me, not any M-adapter on other cam to use M len can match the quality, furthermore it took Ricoh sometime to come out with the M Module). Less than a week give up the Fujifilm & Nex 5 to my relatives.
After deep thinking, i got a new M9 for my Lux 50. I solely use wide open and f2 most of the time. The combo set (Lecia M body & Lecia Len) is a different machine. Initially, i felt a bit regard for the amount spend, but after using that for a couple of days, you will get hooked. The color and quality of the photo indeed has the lecia grow which i feel that you can't achieve with the Ricoh GXR (i doubt) even with the GXR being a FF cam. They are different.
When you hold a M9/M8, you feel a big big different, a rangefinder digital is a different machine. As far as i know that all above discussed cam not a rangefinder. You feel more and more different when you bring up to your eye level and focus the cam.
Do note that if you are using any of M combo set especially at wide open (especially for the Noct & Lux), your set has to be calibrated properly. My set is now back in solm for calibration and believe is on the way back. Try shooting at f1.4 on a human eye ball with reflection using the Lecia M9 & Ricoh GXR, then you understand the different. Before you intend to get the M9, pls read up the website to see what is a rangefinder and problem that one might encounter. There is a lot of them who are angry with M9 with M lenses due to the problem they met and given up that.
To me the real feeling of shooting with a cam is using the M body with M lenses. Maybe also due to being a slide shooter in the film days. Lastly do note the thrill of shooting with your eye through the viewfinder and master shooting with two eyes open. I do feel that this will give you a chance of shooting with good composition too. Ricoh GXR can be a back up cam if you ever get the M.
Before switching to compact camera (listed below), iam using only DSLR D200 & D700 with all trinity len only.
Having been a user for Fujifilm X-Pro (With M Adapter), Nex 5, Ricoh GXR. Definitely the Ricoh GXR is better with M lenses in term of color and quality of the photo. Do note that the M Module is specially designed for using the M Mount (to me, not any M-adapter on other cam to use M len can match the quality, furthermore it took Ricoh sometime to come out with the M Module). Less than a week give up the Fujifilm & Nex 5 to my relatives.
After deep thinking, i got a new M9 for my Lux 50. I solely use wide open and f2 most of the time. The combo set (Lecia M body & Lecia Len) is a different machine. Initially, i felt a bit regard for the amount spend, but after using that for a couple of days, you will get hooked. The color and quality of the photo indeed has the lecia grow which i feel that you can't achieve with the Ricoh GXR (i doubt) even with the GXR being a FF cam. They are different.
When you hold a M9/M8, you feel a big big different, a rangefinder digital is a different machine. As far as i know that all above discussed cam not a rangefinder. You feel more and more different when you bring up to your eye level and focus the cam.
Do note that if you are using any of M combo set especially at wide open (especially for the Noct & Lux), your set has to be calibrated properly. My set is now back in solm for calibration and believe is on the way back. Try shooting at f1.4 on a human eye ball with reflection using the Lecia M9 & Ricoh GXR, then you understand the different. Before you intend to get the M9, pls read up the website to see what is a rangefinder and problem that one might encounter. There is a lot of them who are angry with M9 with M lenses due to the problem they met and given up that.
To me the real feeling of shooting with a cam is using the M body with M lenses. Maybe also due to being a slide shooter in the film days. Lastly do note the thrill of shooting with your eye through the viewfinder and master shooting with two eyes open. I do feel that this will give you a chance of shooting with good composition too. Ricoh GXR can be a back up cam if you ever get the M.
artspraken
New Member
Personally, the problem with digital is that it induces a machine gun mentality. Shoot 20 shots of the same scene and there will at least be one keeper. I later decided this is not photography, this is movie recording.
Film forces me to be selective and think. I sold my M9 because of this.
Film forces me to be selective and think. I sold my M9 because of this.
Hi williamchan
You have made a very convincing case. Having shot an M3, I am aware of the differences.
Why is calibration needed? Shouldn't all the bodies and lenses be correctly aligned already? Having shot the GXR, it is tack sharp when properly focused.
Another issue I have is live view - this helps me focus when image is enlarged as I am seriously myopic with high astigmatism. On RF alone, it does not seem to be accurate enough.
Hi artspraken
I find that I often take better pictures with manual focus as it forces one to slow down, think and recompose. But taking multiple shots is OK, like a motordrive. Film may be a purist approach but I prefer the convenience of what digital offers.
You have made a very convincing case. Having shot an M3, I am aware of the differences.
Why is calibration needed? Shouldn't all the bodies and lenses be correctly aligned already? Having shot the GXR, it is tack sharp when properly focused.
Another issue I have is live view - this helps me focus when image is enlarged as I am seriously myopic with high astigmatism. On RF alone, it does not seem to be accurate enough.
Hi artspraken
I find that I often take better pictures with manual focus as it forces one to slow down, think and recompose. But taking multiple shots is OK, like a motordrive. Film may be a purist approach but I prefer the convenience of what digital offers.
Someone mentioned glow? You certainly don't need a M9 to get glow! Here's an old random RF shot taken on a 6mp digital body with some old nikkor sonnar on a rainy day when I was lazy to go out...
Before I OT, do you need M9? Definitely not. Do you WANT it? Oh yes of course!
Before I OT, do you need M9? Definitely not. Do you WANT it? Oh yes of course!
ExplorerII
Member
you need this
M9P:B
This is the "wrong" M9-P; it has the little red dot.
Ever since I got my M9-P, I have been shooting with it so much that when I got my Nikon FX dSLR out for a spin, I realised that I've totally forgotten how to use the buttons and dials to set the camera. The M is just so intuitive.
To me, M photography is an emotional trip that you can't quite quantify in terms of dollars and sense. Although shooting with a digital M, I still contemplate on my shots before I take them. Taking the time to focus and compose, savouring every moment of it, right through from seeing a photo opportunity to focussing, composing and finally exposing.
There are some clear benefits of shooting RF, such as compact camera body, lens in full frame format compared to an equivalent DSLR which is easily double the size. The quality of lenses available is also amazing. List just goes on!
Labelling it as emotional like some here doesn't seem very helpful though, seems very vague explanation even to me who has used RF for a while. Camera is meant for taking pictures lah
Labelling it as emotional like some here doesn't seem very helpful though, seems very vague explanation even to me who has used RF for a while. Camera is meant for taking pictures lah
Williamchan
New Member
As far as alignment issue with the M Cam & lenses, they both work together to get the best combo shot. Some len on the body is ok but some not thus you have to bring your cam to test the len before buying. Checking for front/back focusing and infinity focusing is a must for me before i start. of course if you know your set is slightly out, then you can compensate that by your focusing prior to release the button. Above problem could be due to cam body only, but sometime also the len also. They are still mechanical even with digital sensor. Try go to website to read more and i believe you can get a better understanding.
Someone pointed out the Grow, i think maybe he meant the quality of the photo.
Go to this good web for some reference :
leica.overgaard.dk - Thorsten Overgaard's Leica Pages - Leica M9 Digital Rangefinder Camera - Page 2: Tool of the artist, Leica M9 as reportage camera, wedding phtography - plus Leica DMR and Leica M9 comparison - plus proper skintones with Leica M9
of Course if you think the live view help you then that is good. But i don't like to use the live view. I still like the actual thrill looking through the view port. By the way, i feel u should get the diopter to get your viewing corrected.
You might need the 1.2x or 1.4x magnifier to help to focus. But depend the len focal length before u choose the right magnifier.
FYI, i started my very first rangefinder, that is M9. That is why i felt a bit regret earlier in my post is also because of focusing. I learned that myself after reading the website and practice. Initially with one eye looking the viewfinder and adjust and shoot. Then slowly with the another eye open gradually to gain a faster/accurate focusing. You need to try. Trust me, once you manage to develop your own comfortable way of focusing and that your set is aligned. Then you are there. On website, a lot of them complain that most shot not accurate, but i don't believe.
Like one of the gentlemen on his earlier post that once he got a new cam and like to play around with that. But still he come back to his M9. That is different. Anyway that is solely my personal feeling. As one highlighted that you should try to rent one and test a few days and not one day and then play with the raw file in the post processing software. See whether you see the different or not. But just bear in mind that even your combo set is properly aligned and in time to come it might be off slightly. However, it still depend on how one use the cam.
The main problem is that if you have a lot of the M len, then choose those you use often and send them back with the cam to calibrate. But then i only like to use one len and that is 50 Lux. I don't like to keep changing len and at the same time i develop my style of compositing with 50mm and also reduce the chances of dust on sensor issue.
Someone pointed out the Grow, i think maybe he meant the quality of the photo.
Go to this good web for some reference :
leica.overgaard.dk - Thorsten Overgaard's Leica Pages - Leica M9 Digital Rangefinder Camera - Page 2: Tool of the artist, Leica M9 as reportage camera, wedding phtography - plus Leica DMR and Leica M9 comparison - plus proper skintones with Leica M9
of Course if you think the live view help you then that is good. But i don't like to use the live view. I still like the actual thrill looking through the view port. By the way, i feel u should get the diopter to get your viewing corrected.
You might need the 1.2x or 1.4x magnifier to help to focus. But depend the len focal length before u choose the right magnifier.
FYI, i started my very first rangefinder, that is M9. That is why i felt a bit regret earlier in my post is also because of focusing. I learned that myself after reading the website and practice. Initially with one eye looking the viewfinder and adjust and shoot. Then slowly with the another eye open gradually to gain a faster/accurate focusing. You need to try. Trust me, once you manage to develop your own comfortable way of focusing and that your set is aligned. Then you are there. On website, a lot of them complain that most shot not accurate, but i don't believe.
Like one of the gentlemen on his earlier post that once he got a new cam and like to play around with that. But still he come back to his M9. That is different. Anyway that is solely my personal feeling. As one highlighted that you should try to rent one and test a few days and not one day and then play with the raw file in the post processing software. See whether you see the different or not. But just bear in mind that even your combo set is properly aligned and in time to come it might be off slightly. However, it still depend on how one use the cam.
The main problem is that if you have a lot of the M len, then choose those you use often and send them back with the cam to calibrate. But then i only like to use one len and that is 50 Lux. I don't like to keep changing len and at the same time i develop my style of compositing with 50mm and also reduce the chances of dust on sensor issue.
ExplorerII
Member
Labelling it as emotional like some here doesn't seem very helpful though, seems very vague explanation even to me who has used RF for a while. Camera is meant for taking pictures lah
Emotional for me, bro.
Emotional: A mental state that arises spontaneously rather than through conscious effort and is often accompanied by physiological changes; a feeling.
Actually using such a camera to take pictures is a feeling of joy for me. That's an emotion for me.
NazgulKing
Senior Member
Attaching emotion to an M can be a bad thing considering that Leica is going upscale on the prices. Very soon, they will only be in the province of the super rich.
That is assuming the incoming train wreck of an economy doesn't send them under.
That is assuming the incoming train wreck of an economy doesn't send them under.
NazgulKing
Senior Member
The best ads are the ones that play on emotion after all! :bsmilie:
ExplorerII
Member
Agree, can be very very catastrophic for the coffers, especially if one is quite in the habit of acquiring exotic glass and the latest M. Just look at the price of the M Monochrom.
Pure simple joy. That's what my Leica brings me. Yes, "pleasure" is appropriate, which is something I derive from using such a camera. My Nikon doesn't quite seem to evoke the same feeling.
Post-war Germany was split into two blocs. After WWII, West Germany struggled to reconstruct its economy, subsequently becoming what was the most prosperous economy of Europe in 1950, while the East lagged way behind. With the financial muscle of today's Germany (Europe's largest), it should come out of the woods relatively safe. The bigger of the problem would likely be how the euro zone stays afloat and keeping the poorer economies in the Union.
Speaking of the East, does anyone remember Carl Zeiss Jena and Practika? Sorry, I digress.
Now, back to the M9. I probably wouldn't need 8 fps shooting or even 5 but what I truly wish for is that Leica would address the write speed. It's a pain in that regard.
The next thing to consider is probably the continuity of the sensor.
Why would you want an M9? My purchase wasn't made on a rationale basis. From a "bang for the buck" perspective, I'd probably be better off with the GXR or Nex cameras. But I must admit that I've used neither; I've only read (and heard) raving reviews. The M9 offers no bells and whistles. It's got a crummy low-resolution tiny LCD screen with no Live view. You've probably read all the cons out there on the Internet.
If you just want something to make images, any other camera is probably adequate. But if you are willing to afford an M9, it will give you more than images.
Speculation with M10 seems to point away from basic RF photography with liveview and what not. additionally, the price will be out of reach for most.. perhaps the M9 will hold its value? It is still the most basic FF digital RF around.
Get the M9 if u can fork out that money. because its an experience and convenience like no other camera can give u. getting anything less now will only lead u back to the same question now.. haha
Get the M9 if u can fork out that money. because its an experience and convenience like no other camera can give u. getting anything less now will only lead u back to the same question now.. haha
sloppyjoe123
New Member
Probably not, considering how much of a success it was, the M10 will probably have problems getting off the shelves if, the M9 stayed in production.
Though honestly, Leica is quite overpriced for what it provides. No doubt, it will give you the best image quality (imo) from any camera that size, before reaching Medium Format, In my opinion. And the way it handles and looks is seriously seductive. But the image quality is really thanks to the amazing glass it has in front of the body. For the Leica M9 body though, I honestly think it is overpriced. I mean a 16MP CCD sensor which is crap above 1200 ISO, a crappy LCD screen of which only purpose is to look at the menu, as there is utterly no point in previewing your pics there, Poor battery, with an amazing focusing system with the rangefinder.
For around 10k, it really is OP. I mean the Leica M6 cost around 2000 with the focusing system and such, with its amazing build quality which is about the same as the M9. I honestly gt no idea how swapping the film part for a sensor, without the electronics for AF, IBIS, Video, etc. can cost near the cost of 2 full frame D800s.
I might have the prices abit off, but you get my point. And Leica is starting to fray from its reputation as a pure photographer's icon, a camera of which function is to retain the beauty of the olden times of manual focusing, the camera that forces you to think and compose, the camera that invokes that special feeling into you and the pictures it create, into a fashion accessory for the rich. (Hint hint: Hermes Edition, Titanium Edition)
But anyway, I do hope the M10 is going to be amazing and blow everyone's socks off, and make everyone get a M10 so I can get a 2nd hand M9 for cheap, or even a 2nd Hand/ 3rd hand M8 for EVEN cheaper :B
Though honestly, Leica is quite overpriced for what it provides. No doubt, it will give you the best image quality (imo) from any camera that size, before reaching Medium Format, In my opinion. And the way it handles and looks is seriously seductive. But the image quality is really thanks to the amazing glass it has in front of the body. For the Leica M9 body though, I honestly think it is overpriced. I mean a 16MP CCD sensor which is crap above 1200 ISO, a crappy LCD screen of which only purpose is to look at the menu, as there is utterly no point in previewing your pics there, Poor battery, with an amazing focusing system with the rangefinder.
For around 10k, it really is OP. I mean the Leica M6 cost around 2000 with the focusing system and such, with its amazing build quality which is about the same as the M9. I honestly gt no idea how swapping the film part for a sensor, without the electronics for AF, IBIS, Video, etc. can cost near the cost of 2 full frame D800s.
I might have the prices abit off, but you get my point. And Leica is starting to fray from its reputation as a pure photographer's icon, a camera of which function is to retain the beauty of the olden times of manual focusing, the camera that forces you to think and compose, the camera that invokes that special feeling into you and the pictures it create, into a fashion accessory for the rich. (Hint hint: Hermes Edition, Titanium Edition)
But anyway, I do hope the M10 is going to be amazing and blow everyone's socks off, and make everyone get a M10 so I can get a 2nd hand M9 for cheap, or even a 2nd Hand/ 3rd hand M8 for EVEN cheaper :B
They'll sell at $4K on CS Soon !!
Wait for your purchases in SEPT / OCT.... right here...
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