DIY - A Better Bounce Card

[unseen]

Just to amend the above statement. I feel that any creation of
bounced card should be appreciated. At least the creator wants to
do something different and should produce the results he wants.

To say that Dennis DIY bounced design is "totally useless in any
outdoor/no ceiling environment" is uncalled for. Can you proof it
that his design is totally useless in this respect as to light up the
subject. You must give some example. ;p

Maybe I should have explained why.
1) monitor has got no reflection = no light is being thrown forward. To throw light forward is the entire point of bounce card, to let light bounce up off the card foward, presenting a larger light source. To have absolutely no light thrown forward, not even a small reflection on the monitor is a major warning, I'd say.

2) Look at the shadow casted by the table lamp. It's casted predominantly by the bounce off the ceiling, thus it's diffused. The diybounce card can't fill in the light to throw light forward. Know why the shadow for the foam bounce card is almost gone? that's because on top of a bounce off the ceiling, there's additional light being thrown forward, thus removing shadows.

If you don't believe me still, try it with your diy card compared directly to one just bouncing off the ceiling. You'll see very similar results.

If you've done enough photography, you'll know that larger the light source, the softer the shadow. The very idea of a bounce card is to bounce the light off the flash, so that you can have a larger light surface/source.
by bouncing off the ceiling, you create a light source from the ceiling, making it like a VERY large light source. However, it casts shadows downwards, thus when indoors, if you use a bounce card to throw light forward, you'll remove those shadows.
If you want to throw LESS light forward, you just have to use a smaller bounce card. Me, I carry 3 sizes of bounce cards around so I can adjust the amount of light I throw forward. If the ceiling is very low, I may want to throw forward less light, so I use a smaller bounce card.

abetterbouncecard is better in that you can quickly adjust the size. however I can't use it while i'm working in clubs etc, because it's not sturdy to withstand the squeezing with 1000 other people etc.

 

[eow]

Just to amend the above statement. I feel that any creation of
bounced card should be appreciated. At least the creator wants to
do something different and should produce the results he wants.

To say that Dennis DIY bounced design is "totally useless in any
outdoor/no ceiling environment" is uncalled for. Can you proof it
that his design is totally useless in this respect as to light up the
subject. You must give some example. ;p

nope what unseen said is true...i had mine own version of what denniskee had made..it is indeed useless when used outdoor

 

[azul123]

nope what unseen said is true...i had mine own version of what denniskee had made..it is indeed useless when used outdoor

Not totally useless, have to view the video again, you can still use the flash directly but instead of head-on direct, positioned it away slightly such that the DIY bounced card is reflecting the diffused light into the subjects direction.

So for outdoor flash, use the flash in the direct flash way but slanted a little, must see the video again.

../azul123

 

[pai]

i agree that the reason why his bounce card creates softer shadows (it's not sending much light forward). just a small nit...

The very idea of a bounce card is to bounce the light off the flash, so that you can have a larger light surface/source.

sorry, i thought the point of a bounce card is to add some fill lighting in combination with ceiling bounce? to help reduce shadows on the front of the subject caused by the bounced light coming from above, and to create catchlights in the eyes?

actually it's not just this bounce card which isn't great outdoors. i always thought that the idea of "bounce" was more of an indoor thing, since you need walls or a ceiling to "bounce" off.

 

[eow]

Not totally useless, have to view the video again, you can still use the flash directly but instead of head-on direct, positioned it away slightly such that the DIY bounced card is reflecting the diffused light into the subjects direction.

So for outdoor flash, use the flash in the direct flash way but slanted a little, must see the video again.

../azul123

Abetterbouncecard indeed work but only applicable when u using card with white surface
...the translucent sheet denniskee use will not be able to throw any much light forward...however it will work very well indoor with low celing ..outside wise.....forget abt it
some test done sometime ago
another way to improvise denniskee version is to place a white sheet in front of the translucent material when u want to throw the light further which can be easily removable as when u want it

version three is actually the abetterbounce card with the white sheet

version four is the translucent version of the abv ..it work beautifully but only if used indoor

 

[azul123]

Abetterbouncecard indeed work but only applicable when u using card with white surface
...the translucent sheet denniskee use will not be able to throw any much light forward...however it will work very well indoor with low celing ..outside wise.....forget abt it
some test done sometime ago
another way to improvise denniskee version is to place a white sheet in front of the translucent material when u want to throw the light further which can be easily removable as when u want it

Oh, my apologies then... I was mistaken, thought it was the Abetterbouncecard that was referring to.

../azul123

 

[unseen]

Not totally useless, have to view the video again, you can still use the flash directly but instead of head-on direct, positioned it away slightly such that the DIY bounced card is reflecting the diffused light into the subjects direction.

So for outdoor flash, use the flash in the direct flash way but slanted a little, must see the video again.

../azul123

I think you misunderstood us.. I'm talking about the transparent one.
The one in the video works perfectly.

edit : heh oops didn't know eow clarified it already..

 

[unseen]

i agree that the reason why his bounce card creates softer shadows (it's not sending much light forward). just a small nit...

sorry, i thought the point of a bounce card is to add some fill lighting in combination with ceiling bounce? to help reduce shadows on the front of the subject caused by the bounced light coming from above, and to create catchlights in the eyes?

actually it's not just this bounce card which isn't great outdoors. i always thought that the idea of "bounce" was more of an indoor thing, since you need walls or a ceiling to "bounce" off.

Ermz.. omnibounce, bounce card, PJ, flip it.. they all basically do the same thing. To make the light source larger, thus shadows softer.

Bounce card, when used indoors, yes it helps reduce shadows create catchlights etc.. however it can only be done if it throws light forward. Look at the TV. If it's an eye, you wouldn't even get any catchlight.

You try to use the bounce card outdoors and you will know how well it works. stick it on at an angle you get different shadows on a person's face. you can bounce light from the bounce card very well indeed.

 

[Zerstorer]

If you want to throw LESS light forward, you just have to use a smaller bounce card. Me, I carry 3 sizes of bounce cards around so I can adjust the amount of light I throw forward. If the ceiling is very low, I may want to throw forward less light, so I use a smaller bounce card.

Your concepts are largely correct, but your analysis of denniskee's design fails on the final aspect. A smaller bouncecard merely emulates a smaller lightsource, which of course throws less light forward. A small lightsource with high reflectivity will end up harsh.

But a bouncecard with lowered reflectivity(in this case, a large but translucent one) can act as a larger and yet less intense lightsource which offers a softer fill.

This is the basic principle on which products like the lightsphere and lumiquest 80/20 are based upon. If they could get away with a smaller surface they would have done so. Or rather a built in bouncecard of a 580EX/SB800 would have been sufficient.

 

[Zerstorer]

An even better solution would be to use a bouncecard with 2 surfaces, white and grey. Grey when less fill is needed.

 

[unseen]

Abetterbouncecard indeed work but only applicable when u using card with white surface
...the translucent sheet denniskee use will not be able to throw any much light forward...however it will work very well indoor with low celing ..outside wise.....forget abt it
some test done sometime ago
another way to improvise denniskee version is to place a white sheet in front of the translucent material when u want to throw the light further which can be easily removable as when u want it

version three is actually the abetterbounce card with the white sheet

version four is the translucent version of the abv ..it work beautifully but only if used indoor

Bro try this.. use a smaller bounce card. Nevermind the translucent one. Try a bounce card that is something like 3 - 5 cm shorter, and 1 - 3 cm narrower. You'll throw less light forward. you'll get results similar to the transparent/translucent bounce card, at the same time still get the catchlight if you need.

anyway if i'm not wrong, fall-off can be approximated to the the inverse square law.. so ya.. you can remove more at the edges and won't lose much light.. feel free to experiment.

 

[denniskee]

speaking for myself
when no ceiling, if i need to light, i use direct flash.
when no ceiling, if i only want some fill in or catch light in the eyes, i go 45-60deg bounce.

end of test. my d60 flash circuit kaput liao. error 99 when using flash.

still cant do more test. now it dont show error99 when using flash. now it give the ettl pre-flash but not the main flash.

 

[unseen]

Your concepts are largely correct, but your analysis of denniskee's design fails on the final aspect. A smaller bouncecard merely emulates a smaller lightsource, which of course throws less light forward. A small lightsource with high reflectivity will end up harsh.

But a bouncecard with lowered reflectivity(in this case, a large but translucent one) can act as a larger and yet less intense lightsource which offers a softer fill.

This is the basic principle on which products like the lightsphere and lumiquest 80/20 are based upon. If they could get away with a smaller surface they would have done so. Or rather a built in bouncecard of a 580EX/SB800 would have been sufficient.

Hmmm I think you didn't note that with a smaller reflectance surface, predominant light will come from the bounced ceiling rather than from your bounce card. I also believe I failed to mention that I'm talking only about low ceiling situations, such as presented. The reflected light by and large will act as a fill light rather than a main light. As such, you won't have such harsh shadows. You DON'T really need a soft fill light. By adjusting the size of the bounce card, you can effectly adjust the ratio of the ceiling bounce to card bounce. That's why I adviced them to try it out specifically in low ceiling areas.
Perhaps once you've tried it you will understand. It works wonders. It'll give pretty similar results.

 

[Zerstorer]

Hmmm I think you didn't note that with a smaller reflectance surface, predominant light will come from the bounced ceiling rather than from your bounce card. I also believe I failed to mention that I'm talking only about low ceiling situations, such as presented. The reflected light by and large will act as a fill light rather than a main light. As such, you won't have such harsh shadows. You DON'T really need a soft fill light. By adjusting the size of the bounce card, you can effectly adjust the ratio of the ceiling bounce to card bounce. That's why I adviced them to try it out specifically in low ceiling areas.

It doesn't work the same even in the conditions you have stated. Low ceilings will just give nice bright hair and bright tops of heads with shadows under eyes and noses if shot without some fill. Even if the predominant light is from above, a small bounce card can still cause hotspots since it acts like a point source. Note that specular highlights can be strong if angle between incident light and reflected light isn't great enough,

Perhaps once you've tried it you will understand. It works wonders. It'll give pretty similar results.

The key word is similar. Your personal definition of that word may tolerate a wider range of results than others. I've shot extensively under such conditions and I'll never say that size doesn't matter. There are workarounds to avoid it, but ceteris paribus a larger source, a more diffused source(lowered reflectivity) will always work better. Not so easily dismissed like in your original post.

 

[weikee]

any idea where i can get this in Malaysia..

 

[metallilan]

Hmm does anyone know where i can get the foamy material? Was wandering around Art Friend at Bras Basah and couldn't find any... -.-

 

[blazer_workz]

Hmm does anyone know where i can get the foamy material? Was wandering around Art Friend at Bras Basah and couldn't find any... -.-

Spotlight @ Plaza Singapura - Row 7..~$3++

 

[metallilan]

Spotlight @ Plaza Singapura - Row 7..~$3++

thanks! erm sorry for being n00bish. Which floor is that on btw? haven't been to plaza singapura in a long time already...

 

[Redsun]

haiz got my fren to go today to spotlight.White foam sheets are sold out.Will be in prob next month.Sad.They have in in multi colors except white now:cry:

 

[metallilan]

haiz got my fren to go today to spotlight.White foam sheets are sold out.Will be in prob next month.Sad.They have in in multi colors except white now:cry:

Ah! Thanks for the info! Guess i'll just have to content with my paper made bounce cards :bsmilie: