Developing at Singapore temperature

[sloth]

Just thought I would share a couple of thoughts on developing.

I am not that experienced, only done a few dozen rolls at 20degC. I don't print, so I don't evaluate negatives for 'printability', rather I scan them to digital. So take my comments as you will.. use at your own risk As with all film developing, these are starting points only. You will have to fine tune your own process.

I have never been one who was really that keen on temperature control. After getting a bit of practice and building a table of what works at 20degC, I decided to extrapolate some development timings for what would work at 28degC, which is roughly the temperature of our water in the evenings.

Now I am wondering what took me so long to figure out that film works just fine at 28C I ran a couple of rolls through with the new timings. Kodak HC-110 diluted 1:100 (5ml/500ml), processing a 35mm roll of Kodak Plus-X 125. 9 minutes, agitated at the start and in the middle of the run. I am really surprised by how nicely it turned out, with a very even spread of tones ranging from nearly transparent to nearly completely back. A very pleasing result. Will definitely shoot more film and try it again. I was expecting either to be very under or over developed... it turned out to be just fine.

 

[sljm]

Just curious how long did u agitate for? I think the fear is that if the developing time is cut too short (< 6-5mins for HC-110 if i remember correctly) It may not be developed properly, since its about 9 i think it's fine.

Hmm i think if u want to print them using a darkroom, i tend to find that when the tempreature increases in developing, the grain is quite noticeable but then i have only been printing for about a year or so, so i may be wrong ;p

 

[sloth]

Just curious how long did u agitate for? I think the fear is that if the developing time is cut too short (< 6-5mins for HC-110 if i remember correctly) It may not be developed properly, since its about 9 i think it's fine.

Hmm i think if u want to print them using a darkroom, i tend to find that when the tempreature increases in developing, the grain is quite noticeable but then i have only been printing for about a year or so, so i may be wrong ;p

I used the little stirrer stick at the top of my tank and just turned it around a few times. That's about all the agitation I give it

I do 'knock' the tank at the start to dislodge bubbles however, I have forgotten to do this and ended up with 'spots' on the final image.

You're right about developing too fast. 5 minutes and below yields very sub-optimal results. I screwed up one roll of 125PX with lots of artifacts (at 20degC) while using a 5-min dilution. Ugly. There's a note in my chart "Don't do this again"

1:100 is sufficiently dilute that even at Singapore temps it does not yield too-short development times. Streetshooter was the one who recommended Tri-X at ISO 400 for 12 minutes using 1:100 dilution in his tutorial. I used 11 minutes and seems to be ok. Must thank him for introducing me to 1:100 :thumbsup:

As for printing.. I usually scan to digital and PP in Lightroom instead of Darkroom :bsmilie:

 

[zenesh]

Hi,

Streetshooter's tutorial is invaluable. I have developed quite a number of rolls with HC-110 at singapore tap water temperature and they turn out fine.

Just agitate in the beginning for 30secs by turn the stick in the developing tank and leave it.
My first few rolls have been developed with more agitation and have more obvious grain then the agitate and let it stand method.

Streetshooter's suggested timings are great. just did a roll of tri-X exposed at iso400. 12 minutes hc-110 at 1:100 turned out beautiful =)

I did prefer longer timings for HP5 at 1600iso compared to tri-x at iso1600 though. I also do not do print the negatives in a darkroom so YMMV.

 

[walltakespigchairs]

what are exact timings for tri-x/hp5 at rated speed or pushed one or two stops using
hc-110 diluted. You haven't tried TMAX developer have you, and where on earth did you manage to find Plus-x film.

 

[sloth]

Have not tried pushing yet, or the TMax developer. With HC-110, one bottle lasts forever, so I just stick to that

Hmm... I use 11 minutes for my Tri-X at ISO 400. 1:100 dilution. Remember all timings are a starting point. What works for me and appears pleasing to me may not necessarily be the same for you. All the best!

Found my Plus-X on Ebay and still have a roll or two left. I know someone who bulk-loads his own PX, so it can't be that hard to find.

 

[alternatve]

I wanted to develop at 28 degrees, since it's the normal temperature of the water in singapore and hence less hassle with adding ice cubes and watching the temperature rise and drop. And I guess it's high time to put all that math knowledge to good use.

*Take note that all calculations are theoratical, follow them at your own risk.*

I'll be using HC-110 dilution F, 1:79 with Ilford Pan 400.

Taking the highest tempterature from the HC-110 chart, 25 degrees, the value is around 3.6 mins. Close, but still 3 degrees away. The timing is also very short, below the mininum 5 mins required.

I then got a formula from this website, http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/. it states that

"You can compensate for small changes in development temperature (over the range 66-75°F, 19-25°C) by changing the development time..... using these formulae:

New time = Old time × exp(-0.081 × (New temp °C - Old temp °C))

New time = Old time × exp(-0.045 × (New temp °F - Old temp °F))"

Thus,

New time = 3.6 x exp(-0.081 x (28-25) = 3.6 x exp(-0.243)
= 2.823 minutes, far too short.

(The timing of dilution F is 2.5 times of dilution B.)

But this is calculated using dilution B, so at dilusion F, 2.5 x 2.823 = 7.0575, approximately 7 minutes using dilution F(1:79) at 28 degrees and Ilford Pan 400.

I'll try it out during the weekend when I've finished with my current roll of film and I'll post the results here.

Samuel

 

[sloth]

Done.

Ilford Delta 100, 9 minutes in HC-110. 1:100 dilution. 28 degC temperature.

Ilford Delta 400, 13 minutes in HC-110. 1:100 dilution. 28 degC temperature.

Both rolls hanging to dry now. I've looked at them with a high powered light source and they look great. Looks like they'll scan just fine.

No emulsion damage I can see at this stage. I'll report back once the scans are done.

 

[sloth]

Forgive the relatively boring subject matter, but I was looking for a consistent subject to test my developing on. These shots are from the Delta 400 roll.

Hard to ask for any better results than these.. I am quite pleased with the way things turned out. (somemore I blew the exposure on the first one and the film forgave me!)

I really love the detail and sharpness in medium format film.. I tried looking at it in 100% zoom and it is fantastic. If I was shooting film as my main system.....confirm I would be a medium format user

 

[alternatve]

Great work!

 

[sloth]

Great work!

Thanks

Managed to scare myself - thought I spotted some artifacts in another image. Turned out to be something on the scanner, a quick re-scan and everything looks perfect again.

 

[alternatve]

Alright, I'm done with my own stuff.

I experimented with two dilutions, mine and sloth's.

My dilution,
1:79 dilution in 27 degrees. 7 min 40 seconds, 10 second agitation at the start and 10 seconds every minute after.

Sloth's dilution,
1:100 dilution in 27 degrees, 10.8 minutes (using 28 degree calculations), one agitation at the start and one in the middle.

Both rolls are drying now, and current observations are very positive!

Samuel

Edit:

The mama lemon wetting agent works! Just add two to three drops and don't wash it off like what I did with the first roll, even though there are a lot of bubbles. Just use your fingers to squeege it off. Don't add too much of the dishwater liquid!

 

[sloth]

Alright, I'm done with my own stuff.

I experimented with two dilutions, mine and sloth's.

My dilution,
1:79 dilution in 27 degrees. 7 min 40 seconds, 10 second agitation at the start and 10 seconds every minute after.

Sloth's dilution,
1:100 dilution in 27 degrees, 10.8 minutes (using 28 degree calculations), one agitation at the start and one in the middle.

Both rolls are drying now, and current observations are very positive! Only thing is my Mama Lemon wetting agent doesn't seem to be working!

Samuel

Cool.. I think also the difference between your timings and mine can be explained due to both dilution, and agitation. Less agitation means you can let it sit for a little while longer. 10 seconds every minute (by my standards at least) is a lot compared to what I do - just 5-10 sec in the middle I assume these are for your usual Pan 400 film?

Either way, it's all good. Film has a little more flexibility than I gave it credit for.

 

[alternatve]

Cool.. I think also the difference between your timings and mine can be explained due to both dilution, and agitation. Less agitation means you can let it sit for a little while longer. 10 seconds every minute (by my standards at least) is a lot compared to what I do - just 5-10 sec in the middle I assume these are for your usual Pan 400 film?

Either way, it's all good. Film has a little more flexibility than I gave it credit for.

Yup, good old Pan 400. Cheap and cheerful.

I'm too lazy to scan in the shots today, going to sleep now. I'll post some tomorrow.

Samuel

 

[zenesh]

Sloth you scan the pictures using a flat bed scanner?

Currently, i will develop and send to the photolab to develop then can see which ones are good. Not very cheap though.

 

[Celebring]

I'm new to B&W developing and have done about 4-5 rolls of Ilford Pan 400 in ambient temperature tap water using ID-11 1:1 for 7 mins, 10s agitation per minute.

I've nothing to compare my negatives to, but the tonal range seems to be OK. 7 mins might be a bit too much since some of the highlights were burnt.

Only scanned one picture so far, which is in the thread below. Do give your comments, if you can. Thanks.

http://clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344349

 

[sloth]

Sloth you scan the pictures using a flat bed scanner?

Currently, i will develop and send to the photolab to develop then can see which ones are good. Not very cheap though.

Yup, I do my own scanning as well. After quite a number of rolls, it becomes cheaper to DIY, especially for medium format where they charge a premium. Am currently using the Canon 8600F (a Clubsnap recommendation :thumbsup::thumbsup. Plus, I have a lifetime of film archived away somewhere that I want to scan before it all develops fungus or something

I'm new to B&W developing and have done about 4-5 rolls of Ilford Pan 400 in ambient temperature tap water using ID-11 1:1 for 7 mins, 10s agitation per minute.

I've nothing to compare my negatives to, but the tonal range seems to be OK. 7 mins might be a bit too much since some of the highlights were burnt.

Only scanned one picture so far, which is in the thread below. Do give your comments, if you can. Thanks.

http://clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344349

The photo looks reasonable to me. Blown highlights happen, for example the sky in the top right hand corner - I would expect that. Film or digital have a dynamic range and you have to stay within that range or sacrifice some of the extremes, so it is ok. Dynamic range is an exposure issue, that's handled in-camera.

Remember all of these 'timings' are actually suggestions, recommendations, starting points and need to be adjusted to individual developing technique. I myself used to think "wah, no timing, how?" and once I got a timing it was "must be 'zhun zhun' exact timing". Once I got a little bit more experience I realized that it is a bit more like cooking - there is a lot of variation in the timing, and only through experimentation and doing repeatedly you gain experience and develop your own timing.

Also, when I was completely new, I got my very first roll developed by a pro lab. This way, I sort of knew what to expect since I had a reference.

Nowadays if I look at the overall feel of the negative and see if it is a bit too 'dark' for my taste, the next batch might get a minute less time. If too light, next one gets a bit more time.

Super-experienced B&W photographers in the past would thus stick to only a couple of films and one developer and thus build up all their experience around it, so over time they become very very consistent. For hobbyists like us who don't shoot B&W that often, it's either we enjoy the 'surprise' results of the development, or if we need 100% consistency then use digital.

Your results look decent. Keep trying!! :thumbsup:

 

[sloth]

FP4 at 13 minutes was a disaster, way too overdeveloped. Macham I could shoot FP4 at ISO 400 and develop for 13 minutes then it would come out more like what I usually expect

Then again FP4 has given me headaches in the past, even when developing at 20C. My first roll was awesome, but I used ID-11 for that.

My HP5 at 9 minutes on the other hand seems to have come out just as expected, just like the Delta 100/400, so that is good.

(for dilution and temperature, see above, I won't keep repeating it, thanks)

Oh well.. different things work for different people

 

[tucker]

amazing! you guys are still shooting film.
just so the last step, is to do your own printing!

I've sticked to tri-x + hc-110 for generally everything,
delta + DDX for the good stuff, rodinal sometimes if Im in e mood for it.
I did tri-x + hc-110/ 400 asa/ 8 mins/ 20 deg
so, Im surprised that @ 11 mins development, the negs is still beautiful!
shadow'll be there if you exposed properly but highlights are not clogged?
anywaym ya guys should do a print from tri-x & you'll fall in love with e highlights.

Tri-X/ 800 + hc-110/ 16 mins printed on agfa RC glossy
scanned from print



but I can't quite agree to this one~

...Dynamic range is an exposure issue, that's handled in-camera...

latitude of the film isn't handled in-camera because the camera only captures the light. (unless you are using digital) make the decision before you load the film.
it can be worked from during development, image latitude can again be messed around when you print.
& also, scanner itself has a recordable range that's why you lose the highlights/ shadows sometimes not because of how your negs turned out!
gotta learn how to read the negs.

as again, it's subjective~
some folks liked to have a thick negs to work with, others can do magic just with thin ones.
but generally a 'good neg', is one that retains the supposed shadow and highlight details so you have everything to play with

 

[Anjinnete Ross]

Dynamic range is an exposure issue, that's handled in-camera.

From what I was taught, and what I read, I am in agreement with tucker's first comment on the above statement.

Dynamic range is not an issue with exposure.