defense for pple sued by odex?

[eikin]

Under the Copyright Act, Odex as licensee is entitled to proceed with the action without joining the owners of the copyright (i.e., need not bring in the owners as plaintiff). The apportionment of damages between the parties will be determined by the courts.

but when they look for out of court settlement, how is the apportionment of damages going to be decided? by Odex? :bigeyes:

btw i noticed you changed the word ''damages'' to ''profits''

can such payments be considered a profit?

 

[CYRN]

Under the Copyright Act, Odex as licensee is entitled to proceed with the action without joining the owners of the copyright (i.e., need not bring in the owners as plaintiff). The apportionment of profits between the parties will be determined by the courts.

umm.. wat I meant is that since odex is alienating their fan base, and as avpas was used as well, wouldn't it alienate avpas fan base as well, inclusive of those avpas members (other distributers of anime)

 

[yoshi27]

but when they look for out of court settlement, how is the apportionment of damages going to be decided? by Odex? :bigeyes:

That's a good question! My view, looking at the Act, is that for cases settled out of court, the owners still can bring an action against the infringers. An infringer's settlement is with Odex - not the owners. If however, an action is brought to court, and damages has been assessed by the courts, the owners are barred in most cases from claiming against the infringer in a separate action.

 

[yoshi27]

umm.. wat I meant is that since odex is alienating their fan base, and as avpas was used as well, wouldn't it alienate avpas fan base as well, inclusive of those avpas members (other distributers of anime)

Yah that's true...didn't see it that way.

 

[eikin]

That's a good question! My view, looking at the Act, is that for cases settled out of court, the owners still can bring an action against the infringers. An infringer's settlement is with Odex - not the owners. If however, an action is brought to court, and damages has been assessed by the courts, the owners are barred in most cases from claiming against the infringer in a separate action.

which actually means that those who have admitted to have infringed the rights of Odex are opening themselves to more legal liabilities, unless the case is heard and settled in court, any settlement out of court does not protect the accused from more law suits :bigeyes: -> i think by this count alone those affected ought to seek proper legal help and not sign the letters of undertaking blindly

 

[eikin]

umm.. wat I meant is that since odex is alienating their fan base, and as avpas was used as well, wouldn't it alienate avpas fan base as well, inclusive of those avpas members (other distributers of anime)

since AVPAS didn't initiate the case, it's even more bizarre for Odex to be going after the fans

 

[yoshi27]

but when they look for out of court settlement, how is the apportionment of damages going to be decided? by Odex? :bigeyes:

btw i noticed you changed the word ''damages'' to ''profits''

can such payments be considered a profit?

Yah, the actual wording under the Act is "profits".

One of the relief one can claim is account of profits. That is if the infringer on-sells the material, it can be asked to account the profits it made from the sale. Damages are loss suffered as a result of the infringement. A claimant can claim both.

If profits are claimed, it will be distributed between the owner and licensee.

If account of profits is granted as a relief, the owner cannot claim damages or profits in a separate action. However, if only damages is awarded, the owner still can claim for account of profits.

 

[yoshi27]

which actually means that those who have admitted to have infringed the rights of Odex are opening themselves to more legal liabilities, unless the case is heard and settled in court, any settlement out of court does not protect the accused from more law suits :bigeyes:

Yup, that seems to be the case (see section 128 of Copyrights Act). Gotta confer with my IP colleagues...but my immediate understanding is that.

 

[eikin]

let's assume, say there's no defense against Odex's claims against the fans.

but after this case is over, can the fans initiate a case against Odex for failing to perform up to market expectations (poor quality videos, slow release etc.) resulting in their ''need'' to source for alternative sources, leading to the losses in the suits Odex brought against them? :think:

 

[CYRN]

let's assume, say there's no defense against Odex's claims against the fans.

but after this case is over, can the fans initiate a case against Odex for failing to perform up to market expectations (poor quality videos, slow release etc.) resulting in their ''need'' to source for alternative sources, leading to the losses in the suits Odex brought against them? :think:

If you signed that paper, your back door is closed.

 

[eikin]

If you signed that paper, your back door is closed.

no not that, as in a separate case not to overturn Odex's. since Odex pushed so hard, can imagine the amount of wrath the anime fans have, if they group and initiate a separate case, wonder what will happen :think:

btw Odex's papers boh pa kay one leh, you pay them you now doesn't mean you don't have to pay others if the others come after you

 

[garou12]

no not that, as in a separate case not to overturn Odex's. since Odex pushed so hard, can imagine the amount of wrath the anime fans have, if they group and initiate a separate case, wonder what will happen :think:

i also thought it was weird that the isps got paid after they receive court orders to reveal subscribers...how come the isp can ask for $ from odex?

 

[eikin]

i also thought it was weird that the isps got paid after they receive court orders to reveal subscribers...how come the isp can ask for $ from odex?

administration fees? :think: you think got free lunch meh, ''connect to internet'' no need to pay? :bsmilie:

 

[garou12]

administration fees? :think: you think got free lunch meh, ''connect to internet'' no need to pay? :bsmilie:

no but all they're doing is getting ip address/ subscriber names from the ISP under a court order...something the isp can do with the tap of a keyboard, besides if its a court order then they are supposed to give out the ids what...why ask for money?

 

[vince123123]

Just a minor clarification, a licensee is not good enough, you need to be an exclusive licensee to bring an action without joining the copyrigth owners.

There's a mile of difference between a non-exclusive and an exclusive licensee.

Under the Copyright Act, Odex as licensee is entitled to proceed with the action without joining the owners of the copyright (i.e., need not bring in the owners as plaintiff). The apportionment of profits between the parties will be determined by the courts.

 

[eikin]

no but all they're doing is getting ip address/ subscriber names from the ISP under a court order...something the isp can do with the tap of a keyboard, besides if its a court order then they are supposed to give out the ids what...why ask for money?

press keyboard and printout also takes up manpower, electricity need to pay, paper also not free you know :bsmilie: everything goes by $$$$$

 

[garou12]

press keyboard and printout also takes up manpower, electricity need to pay, paper also not free you know :bsmilie: everything goes by $$$$$

sounds like greed to me. If they argue that by releasing the info it will result in loss of business for them then i could see it fly.

 

[vince123123]

I'm not sure about "public body". A search in the Companies and Businesses Register doesn't show any hit for Anti-Video Piracy Association(Singapore).

A search in the Registry of Societies does show a Anti Video Piracy Association (Singapore) registered.

Hence they should be able to sue in their name. But again the question is, are they owners of the copyrigtht or exclusive licensees?

I believe the AVPS is meant to be a public body to represent all video distributors here so as a director of it he does have a responsibility to go after all video pirates not just ones that he deems to be hurting his business interests. Odex maybe the ones making the claims but there should be a conflict of interest because he is also sitting on the AVPS and in this case only going after peopel who hurt his...Vince123123 can clarify?

 

[garou12]

I'm not sure about "public body". A search in the Companies and Businesses Register doesn't show any hit for Anti-Video Piracy Association(Singapore).

A search in the Registry of Societies does show a Anti Video Piracy Association (Singapore) registered.

Hence they should be able to sue in their name. But again the question is, are they owners of the copyrigtht or exclusive licensees?

interesting...

 

[CYRN]

interesting...

mabbe that's why they are using Odex letterhead in their mails. But it begs to question which titles does Odex have exclusive licence. :think:

the online list is all avpa members list.