Controlling contrast when developing

[jenster27]

Hi guys,

I just started developing my own black and whites, and my first attempt was somewhat successful but not what I had hoped for, unfortunately.

The negatives seemed way too contrasty for my preference. Blacks were blown, and highlights blown too. Very little details in the middle grays. Some might like it but it's not what I was hoping for in my pictures.

The 2 rolls I developed together were both Tri-X 400 into DD-X (1+4). I developed at 21 degrees celsius and used the iphone Massive Dev Chart to time.

I know Tri-X is supposed to be a gritty and contrasty film, but I've definitely seen better (controlled) contrasts on other people's Tri-X pictures.

Ok I must admit that the problem could be entirely mine, cos I could have messed up the timing settings in the Massive Dev Chart and increased the timing by about 2 mins! I'm trying hard to remember if I did that but I can't seem to remember! :think:

Ok but let's say if I had done it right according to the Massive Dev Chart, means Tri-X into DD-X (4+1) for 7:22min at 21 degrees celsius, what else could have gone wrong?

Could it be:
1. This timing by Massive Dev Chart is too long? (for my preference, that is).
2. Is high contrast a characteristic of DD-X (1+4)? Should I try something else?
3. I was a bit too slack in the timing. Eg. Taking time to pour in the developer before pressing the timer, etc.

I hope you guys could give me some pointers to fine tune my process. I don't think I'm that far off cos the pictures are still acceptable, just way too contrasty for my preference.

Thanks very much in advance!

 

[Xtol19]

The times given assume an "average" scene. Contrast is not a fixed constant, it depends on your scene. If your scene is too contrasty, even the "average" time can lead to too high a contrast.

Experience needed.

FYI, 3X is an "average" film, not a "contrasty" film.

 

[jenster27]

Yes I understand that contrast depends on the scene but the rolls were consistently contrasty regardless of the different locations they were taken in (ie. indoors, outdoors, etc.). Yes, some were more acceptable.

Actually all I'd like to find out is if:
1. My developing timing of 7:22min @ 21 degrees is normal with you guys (roughly)?
2. DD-X (1+4) is perhaps a developer with these characteristics?

Ya, but I agree, more experience needed. Just want to know which way to fine tune for my next attempt!

 

[Dream Merchant]

Tri-X into DD-X (4+1) for 7:22min at 21 degrees Celsius sounds about correct.

Perhaps you could look at the possible variables and try to analyze it for yourself.

1) What is 'acceptable' to you? (I don't think I'm that far off cos the pictures are still acceptable,)

2) What is 'too contrasty' to you? (just way too contrasty for my preference.)

3) How can a developed neg be both 'acceptable' and 'WAY TOO contrasty' at the same time?

4) Was the measurement of concentrate as well as the ratio of dilution correct? e.g., 1+4 = 100ml concentrate + 400ml water TTL VOL = 500ml.

5) Was the thermometer accurate?

6) How 'slack' was 'slack' , exactly? To some folks, pouring too slow could mean taking an extra 10 seconds, and to others, it could be almost a full minute if a large tank was used.

7) What agitation technique was used, how vigorous was the agitation and for what duration and how long an interval?

8) What was the temp of the developer after 7:22mins?

9) How did you arrest development?

Hope that helps some.

 

[jenster27]

Thanks for the pointers and apologies for the confusion. When I mentioned them still being "acceptable" I meant that they were not "spoilt" and may even be visually pleasing to some. But they were too contrasty for me, which makes it not acceptable to me. Hope I'm not confusing more! Haha!

Anyway I'll work through the variables again and see what I can tighten.

Btw, right after pouring away the developer I poured in stop bath for 1 min, then poured out stop bath and poured in fixer for 5 mins.

Ok if I'm going to try reducing the developing time of the DD-X, what would be the "lower limit" I should be aware of (if there's such a thing at all)? I know there's no right or wrong here and it depends on your preference. But has anyone tried 6min @ 20 degrees?

 

[Dream Merchant]

Singapore's a hot place.

Developer temp can jump as much as 2-4 degrees C over the span of the original development time, and needs to be carefully calculated and compensated for ... unless you develop in a very cold AC environment or use a cold water bath that helps keep the developer temp constant.

The easiest way to determine how much a developer is going to warm up over X period of time is to run actual tests, inclusive of agitation.

I suspect the above factor is what might have 'over-cooked' your negs, because increments of development times and temperature are the two key factors that increases negative contrast, besides more aggressive agitation.

 

[plato]

If you're going to experiment with timings, my suggestion is not to change 2 variables at the same time. If you're going to lower your temperature to slow down development, then keep the development time constant. I don't shoot Tri-X, but I often push HP5 to 1600 in DDX, and I keep contrast down by going with a dilution of 1:7 or 1:9 at 20 degrees celcius and just going with a longer development time. In this way, your results will be very controlled because even if you over or under develop by half a minute, the impact is minimal, whereas at between 6-8 min development, if you don't get your devt time reasonably accurate, you don't get good results.

To prevent uneven development, you just need to try to avoid development times shorter than 5 min. Other than that, it's up to you to lengthen or shorten development times to experiment. Another thing to remember is that how you agitate is very important. I find the negs less constrasty and grainy if I minimise agitation. The massive dev chart suggests agitation for 1st minute and then for first 10 sec of every minute. Nowadays, I only agitate for first minute, and then maybe for first 10 sec for every 2 or 3 minutes. And I agitate very gently.

Hope this helps.

 

[Xtol19]

Actually development time is the most impt variable affecting contrast. If all other factors are held constant (lens, film, developer, concentration, scene contrast, etc) then to solve your contrast problem is simple-- just cut dev 10% till it's what you want.

Yes I understand that contrast depends on the scene but the rolls were consistently contrasty regardless of the different locations they were taken in (ie. indoors, outdoors, etc.). Yes, some were more acceptable.

Actually all I'd like to find out is if:
1. My developing timing of 7:22min @ 21 degrees is normal with you guys (roughly)?
2. DD-X (1+4) is perhaps a developer with these characteristics?

Ya, but I agree, more experience needed. Just want to know which way to fine tune for my next attempt!

 

[tongjin]

I use Tri-X 400 and DD-X all the time. Usually at 8mins at 20 degrees C, as per the chart from Ilford ( chart from official Ilford website for DD-X). Normal agitation every minute at 5 seconds only. The more you agitate, the more contrasty it gets. When you agitate, you move the less exhausted developer around which continues to work on that part of the film. Perhaps you should do a test roll and cycle through different exposures. I have a feeling your negs are under-exposed.
I have two bottles of water kept in freezer, and usually they keep quite consistent at 20 after 10 minutes in a bucket.
Goodluck