Cheapo wedding shoot

[yrh0413]

sorry guys I don't really get it... what is wrong if say a photographer who charges $5,000 for half-day package yet he shoots with an entry level DSLR? My take is: if your gears can deliver consistent results and you do not need to upgrade, as a business owner why do you need to spend on unneccesary stuff?

I had a friend who got married recently, and there are 2 photographers who are on D5000 and 450D both with kit lenses yet they manage to produce pretty decent results. I do not look down on both of them, but pretty impressed with how they approach the wedding guest for shots and the way they communicate with the guest and the hosts.

 

[allenleonhart]

btw another point to consider.

there are things known as negative influences. you can shoot on a d80, but so long as consumer feels that it is crap, you are not doing your worth etc, they can pass that opinion around.

and you can very likely, end up shooting your own foot as more people think you are not as good/your business is not doign well.. so doing business is not just about the product, its about the marketing too.

 

[sjackal]

btw another point to consider.

there are things known as negative influences. you can shoot on a d80, but so long as consumer feels that it is crap, you are not doing your worth etc, they can pass that opinion around.

and you can very likely, end up shooting your own foot as more people think you are not as good/your business is not doign well.. so doing business is not just about the product, its about the marketing too.

Right, impression forms an important part of marketing though the more important question is who are you marketing to? Who notices the gear you use? - clubsnap people, hobbyists who values gear over photography, people who think they know more than you and want to prove it to satisfy their own ego. Are these people the most ideal clients?

Some photogs flew all over the world on big fashion event assignments, packing 'plasticty' 50Ds and Tamron lens, but several sets of Hugo and Armani suits. Who are you marketing to?

 

[fotoudavid]

maybe to the photographer, D80 already over kills...... he knows what to produce, what to shoot and process it???? maybe everyday same thing to him....

anyway, the bridal shop cannot afford pay high as so much thing to cover...... mistake, only mistake, they charge too low for it........

rental, gowns, flowers, make up, hair do, photographer, album, suits..... assistance, after sales service, DI artist......... how to divide...... my sergeant last time told me, since in the Navy, make the best out of it.

To me, since sign the package, make the best out of it......

 

[kentwong81]

Actually there is no wrong using a D80 for pre-wedding shoot. If the photographer has very good post-processing, composition and posing skills, coupled with good lightings on that day, the pre-wedding photos can turn out to be better than those taken by someone with more high-end DSLR and lenses but without those mentioned skills.

It's also nothing wrong for the photographer to ask the third party not to shoot the couple when he is working. It is not only the respect and interrupting issue, but also a "copy right" issue. When the photographer poses the couple at a specific location under specific lighting with specific pose, the photographer doesn't wish to see another similar photo taken by someone else, which makes the photo not exclusive for the couple who pay him for the shoot anymore.

 

[SmOcKxY]

When I did my wedding shoot 4 years ago I wasn't into photography yet..but The photographer was very accommodating and patient (both of us quite shy in front of the camera) and coached us into the poses and gave good comments to our suggested places to shoot and things liddat..was very frenly and laughed alot with us to make us feel comfy with him shooting..even allowed a fren who was with us to shoot candids and posed together with us!

And now that I'm into photography I went back to the photos and checked the metadata..in the end "only" D90 and a kit lens plus 50mm 1.8..but the photos were fantastic..couldn't ask for more..so it goes to prove a point that the camera and lens(no matter how expensive) is just a tool..the skill is in the person looking through it and pressing the shutter..if the photographer that day had come with a D3s and a pletora of expensive lens but was cold and photos turned out badly..it wouldn't have been a fun and good experience for us both...

 

[wakaowalao]

Please, the non-stop-its-the-man-behind-the-cam-that-matters dialogue that keeps hanging on everyone's tongue is as irritating as the go-search-google thingy. There ARE clients and I mean BIG clients who really do cares about what equipments. If you are that really good/famous/popular shooting wedding/events with a even a D40/E450/A100, by all means and quit saying you do not need big expensive equipment in the BUSINESS world.

 

[GENO]

Low end camera gears can still shoot nice pics...they are just slower, not so good at low lightings AF, less functions, and not so hardy to stand knocks. As long as there's enough lights around, it should do fine in focusing.

But for important stuffs, i still believe to give the best shot in which the market can give rather then blame here and there later. For those who are willing to risk other people's big day by using a lower end gears, i hope you are treated the same way too then you know how people feel when the pictures dont come out good.

 

[donut88]

Just came back from my brother in law's outdoor wedding shoot. The package don't include transport so I was commanded by wife to be driver. Brought my V1 along.

Man, the guy got attitude problem. Anyway I just driver so tiam tiam. He vetoed all the family's suggested site. Insisted on Sentosa. Went there then realized he has his set pieces - 2 places certain standard pose than that's it. Worse, when he unzipped his camera bag, he took out a D80 (I think - he his the front from me) and shot with the kit 18-55mm. I was thinking: Wah lau, cheap leh.

Then when I tried to take with my camera, he says "I take only, you cannot take." I heck care. I got better reach with my V1 70-110 so I just stand behind him and snapped.

But like I say I tiam tiam since I only driver.
But felt the need to let out steam here. Anyway, they can't afford an expensive package so what to do?

What's wrong with D80 and kit lens??

U think harder, the shoot is in outdoor, in afternoon with bright sun light, why cannot use kit lens?? Even if u use a constant f1.4 lens, what's the difference in outdoor day time?

There are ppl who won international photography competitions with basic camera and KIT lens, and their pictures are not PP.....

 

[UncleFai]

What's wrong with D80 and kit lens??

U think harder, the shoot is in outdoor, in afternoon with bright sun light, why cannot use kit lens?? Even if u use a constant f1.4 lens, what's the difference in outdoor day time?

There are ppl who won international photography competitions with basic camera and KIT lens, and their pictures are not PP.....

So you saying this guy bo liao... should have used a D80 with kit lens enough liao right?

 

[sjackal]

So you saying this guy bo liao... should have used a D80 with kit lens enough liao right?

Like I said, who are you marketing to? Joe McNally is a world reowned commercial photographer and a Nikon ambassador, he markets to PHOTOGRAPHERS. This very picture itself is infact marketing material for Nikon, part of the D4 marketing campaign. He markets to photographers, he has to show he got the guns and that is his image. If you follow the OCF scene enough you will know that while David Hobby is the ghetto-whatever-that-works guy, Joe McNally is the one with all the shebangs. While Joe owns more than ten SB900 (he probably changed all to SB910s already), David still using heavy banged up old SB800s. Does it make David a lesser photographer? Hardly, I think he many times did more with less.

Even a commercial client will not be able to visually tell the difference if he shoots this picture with a D80 instead of that $7000 D4, with Jinbei lights instead of $10000 Profoto lights, assistants who are professional photographers themselves, or bangladeshi worker you hire off the street to assist.

I say move on, you ranted already, people gave you opinions already, this discussion already turned into the boring old debate of gear vs photographer...

Your friend will still be getting his wedding photos, they already made their choice and budget, they probably got no problem eventually, maybe even will still be happy end of the day, they want to be happy with their wedding. What more do you want? Go tell them they made a bad choice? That their wedding photos will be all RUINED by that stupid photographer? Is that what you want? Its you who don't like that guy using D80, its not even your wedding photo and your not even paying.

Just saying... Not trying to offend you.

 

[kiwi2]

Hey cool down guys.

I think this whole discussion has been taken out of context.

You can't just naively show or cite a situation where there are tons of camera gear used and say "That photography must be crazy. A simple camera will do."

Similarly, you can't just see a D80 and say it's lousy.

It's true that many times, stunning shots have been produced with such cheaper cameras.

Clubsnap is one of those forums where many people love to discuss equipment a lot, even writing at length predicting when they will be released, over analyze what features are useful/not useful, scold the cam manufacturer for not including this and that, etc. Make sure you at the end of the road, you stay on track on what photography is about.

The thing is, have you seen the final images to judge whether they are acceptable or not? Camera type and amount of gear are important but secondary. If you know how to do the job with the right equipment, that's all that matters. If you only pay x amount of $ and you expect the sky, I think you're asking too much. I thought it was already stated the couple can't afford "expensive package", so what do you expect? A D3s camera with several big lenses?

Just remember also, expensive equipment and expensive package do not also mean the photographer is competent. I've seen and heard enough.

 

[Sam-Gor]

It is a balance between skill and equipment

As more and more consumers are getting more familar with photography (or they think they are), if customers have the same entry dslr as you have, they find it hard to justify of paying you more esp they always naively believe that with the same equipment, they can take photos of almost the same calibre of the hired photographer.

You cant control how your customer think no matter how good or professional the hired photographer is.

End of the day, people look at the end product, but the photographer should upgrade his equipment if he wish to command better prices. Well, you are amazed that people ask what equipment the photogragher use nowadays and use the guy who have better equipment even his skill is inadequate.

People generally talk about how big is your d*** is first before talking down to the skill ma right?

Now step back and take a chill pill.

 

[UncleFai]

Just saying... Not trying to offend you.

Don't worry... none taken.

If you have read my original post, I said (a) I am giving the guy the benefit of the doubt and will wait for the final results, and (b) I said nothing to the couple about my thoughts.

It is just that the discussion have twisted and turned to one of equipment. For this, my position is: if I pay a "pro" $$$ to do a job, I expect a certain level of professionalism, skill *AND* equipment. If you don't, that's fine by me... but I do.

 

[wootsk]

I find that as long as the couple is happy with the result they get from the amount they pay, who are we to judge? We can be good in camera technically and in photography as a craft skill itself. But the wedding photos belongs only to the couple. Even if it looks like some formal dead fish looking photo, if the couple are happy, we should feel the same for them. But if they aren't, we also should butt in, it is between them and the photographer. If the photographer can give a good reason and if they accept it or not, thats all.

 

[redstone]

I find that as long as the couple is happy with the result they get from the amount they pay, who are we to judge? We can be good in camera technically and in photography as a craft skill itself. But the wedding photos belongs only to the couple. Even if it looks like some formal dead fish looking photo, if the couple are happy, we should feel the same for them. But if they aren't, we also should butt in, it is between them and the photographer. If the photographer can give a good reason and if they accept it or not, thats all.

As a photographer (non-professional) myself I would always recommend people I know to get good wedding photographers, with great artistic photographs, those whose rates are 1.5k - 3k kind.

But some of them insist of getting their 'friend' to shoot. And when I see their portfolio, it is only 'okay'. I would still try to explain to them that wedding is once in a lifetime, etc should get better photographers. But if they still want their friend to shoot, I am fine with it. Won't put up an argument. I had made my point to them, and they had made their firm decisions and are happy with the photographs that their friend takes, tho there are better ones out there.

 

[2100]

I
The D80 is a damn capable camera, wedding portraits no problem.

You are wedding PG, so you definitely know....

My own wedding studio pictures, didn't even use D80. My AD wedding, Joho/aka Expressively Joho took for me.... Fujifilm S2 nia, and he gave me FOUR GIGAPIXELS. Err.... I mean four megapixels. :embrass:
Did blow to A3, pretty ok. 99% folks nowadays don't even print S8R with a 5D2, just do facebook.


When i see the words "wife and sisters hopping mad", that sentence really supports me why i left the industry....

The funny thing is, perhaps even contrary to popular belief, i get more respect from 98% of the newbie photographers who shoot with me and the recognition that AD is hard work (early hours, always on the feet, heavy equipment, why i cannot cover standard grp shots as well as churn out good PJ photos at the same time). The other 2% would be those who block you and not wanna move even you tell them not to shoot, but that's still ok... I am just afraid of those few sisters/gals who forum here and there and expect heaven and earth kind of 100% perfection for sub 2k, i try to avoid them but if you do meet them and you are not in form that day, you can have a very very bad day later.

 

[sjackal]

When i see the words "wife and sisters hopping mad", that sentence really supports me why i left the industry....

The funny thing is, perhaps even contrary to popular belief, i get more respect from 98% of the newbie photographers who shoot with me and the recognition that AD is hard work (early hours, always on the feet, heavy equipment, why i cannot cover standard grp shots as well as churn out good PJ photos at the same time). The other 2% would be those who block you and not wanna move even you tell them not to shoot, but that's still ok... I am just afraid of those few sisters/gals who forum here and there and expect heaven and earth kind of 100% perfection for sub 2k, i try to avoid them but if you do meet them and you are not in form that day, you can have a very very bad day later.

Because of these reasons photographers are always looking for the better clients. The serious ones rising prices to filter out the undesirables (those type that are always hopping mad), not stereotyping but its a fact that generally, at the lower price ranges these hopping mad people are more common, people who think they know, people who think they entitle, people who think are better, people who pull out their belts and whips and think they bought a slave when they only pay for a service, people who pass judgement and sentence you like a magistrate when they are just a wedding guest and people who do evil onto others when they are not happy with their own situation. I cannot do this forever, I will grow old, tired, and outdated, photography cannot be my rice-bowl forever, especially AD is a limited lifespan type of work. I only have limited ammo to make my shots count in this career. But while I am at it, I would really hate to spend the precious ammo on rogue clients.

 

[2100]

Because of these reasons photographers are always looking for the better clients. The serious ones rising prices to filter out the undesirables (those type that are always hopping mad), not stereotyping but its a fact that generally, at the lower price ranges these hopping mad people are more common, people who think they know, people who think they entitle, people who think are better, people who pull out their belts and whips and think they bought a slave when they only pay for a service, people who pass judgement and sentence you like a magistrate when they are just a wedding guest and people who do evil onto others when they are not happy with their own situation. I cannot do this forever, I will grow old, tired, and outdated, photography cannot be my rice-bowl forever, especially AD is a limited lifespan type of work. I only have limited ammo to make my shots count in this career. But while I am at it, I would really hate to spend the precious ammo on rogue clients.

True and double thumbs up to you bro.... Cheers and good luck!

Anyway, for me I always tell my wife/children, life is short....enjoy.

 

[pinholecam]

Two very recent articles regarding pros and gear.
The Online Photographer: Do Smaller Cameras Hurt Pros' Image?

The Visual Science Lab / Kirk Tuck: You can't use that. It's not professional.