Canon HV10 and HV20 Sample Videos Provided by Canon USA

[jaegersing]

According to what I read in a forum thread, Canon did a non-standard implementation with the Canon HV20, using the assumption that consumers would not do much video editing. The NLEs could work with 25P in a 50i container because the raw video footage would have the pulldown flags. NLEs detect the flags. However, HV20 does not have the flags. So standard NLEs can't work with the 25P footage from HV20. The alternative is to use Cineform, which does not rely on detecting the pulldown flags, but by analyzing the actual footage. Cineform could then convert the HV20's 25P in a 50i container footage to AVI, which is usable by the standard NLEs.

But Cineform costs USD$500. :lovegrin:

That's strange. You see, I've found that the only time the NLE can recognise the flags is when it does the capture itself. If you then open the captured files in a different NLE it does not detect the footage as progressive. I work in both Vegas and Edius and see this all the time when I switch between them. It's a bit of a pain. But if you manually change the field order setting (to None or Progressive) it always works fine, just takes a while to change the settings because you have to do it one clip at a time.

I'll see if I can find out more about this. Thanks for mentioning it.

 

[sgvideoman]

That's strange. You see, I've found that the only time the NLE can recognise the flags is when it does the capture itself. If you then open the captured files in a different NLE it does not detect the footage as progressive. I work in both Vegas and Edius and see this all the time when I switch between them. It's a bit of a pain. But if you manually change the field order setting (to None or Progressive) it always works fine, just takes a while to change the settings because you have to do it one clip at a time.

I'll see if I can find out more about this. Thanks for mentioning it.

The link is here:

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=92971

Thread title is:

Contacting Canon re: adding 24p pulldown flags

 

[jaegersing]

Hi sgvideoman. Thanks for the link.

I believe this problem is only for 24p, as 25p does not have any pulldown, it is just split across the 2 interlaced fields.

 

[Limsgp]

if 25P gives better performance in low light, maybe because the shutter speed is slower, hence greater exposure per frame? slower shutter speed also lead to motion blur.

I also heard that the HV20 has better low light performance, but wouldn't have thought it was because of the 25p (24p is on the USA and Japanese models). 25p also shouldn't cause degradation, but it is not as smooth as 50i so you need to be careful with panning and also try to track moving subjects, ortherwise they can get a bit jerky.

 

[jaegersing]

Not sure why you say the shutter speed is slower in 25p. Can you elaborate?

From what I know, for 25p you would normally set the shutter speed to 1/50s, because this is the closest to the "film look" that 25p is normally used to emulate. You could maybe use 1/25s in low light conditions but will get more motion blur.

 

[Limsgp]

I'm not familiar with camcorders.. but I presume that if you shoot at 60fps, the min shutter speed is 1/60sec, if you shoot at 30fps, the min shutter speed is 1/30sec, and if you shoot at 25fps, the min shutter speed is 1/25sec. that is, if you didn't manually fixed the shutter speed. Assuming under low light condition, the camera will attempt to use the lowest speed possible?

However, these are pure speculation.. Maybe it doesn't work this way..?


rgds

Not sure why you say the shutter speed is slower in 25p. Can you elaborate?

From what I know, for 25p you would normally set the shutter speed to 1/50s, because this is the closest to the "film look" that 25p is normally used to emulate. You could maybe use 1/25s in low light conditions but will get more motion blur.

 

[jaegersing]

Hi limsgp. No it doesn't actually work like that, although I can see the logic behind it.

With video cams you can set the shutter speed to very slow (long) values, even 1/8s or 1/4s depending on the cam. The digital video frame rate is still recorded at whatever the setting is (e.g. 50i or 25p) but the update rate for the video content of each frame is slowed down because of the slow shutter being used. The effect of very slow shutter is lots of motion blur, motion trails and also severe juddering.

Hope this explanation helps, but it is a bit "chim" if you are not familiar with digital video.

 

[Limsgp]

oh.. ic..

So, if the shutter is 1/5sec, and the frame rate is 25p, that means 5 frames will be identical since they have the same exposure during each 1/5sec when the shutter is opened?

Hi limsgp. No it doesn't actually work like that, although I can see the logic behind it.

With video cams you can set the shutter speed to very slow (long) values, even 1/8s or 1/4s depending on the cam. The digital video frame rate is still recorded at whatever the setting is (e.g. 50i or 25p) but the update rate for the video content of each frame is slowed down because of the slow shutter being used. The effect of very slow shutter is lots of motion blur, motion trails and also severe juddering.

Hope this explanation helps, but it is a bit "chim" if you are not familiar with digital video.

 

[jaegersing]

Basically yes. The first exposure takes 5 frames (1/5s) to capture, then it is recorded as 5 equal frames while the next image is being captured, and so on.

 

[Limsgp]

When I tried playing the 1080p video using VLC player, it can't play well and sometimes the frame freezes. But when the Quicktime7 player is used, there is no problem with the video. The computer is celeron 2.8GHz, 768Mb RAM.

The VLC player can play the 720p video thou.


what's ur computer spec?

Okay, my computer is only certified fit for playing back 720progressive video footages. Very smooth playback. For any one who couldn't playback 1080p videos smoothly, download the 720p footages. Impressive video quality.

 

[sgvideoman]

Daytime performance of Canon HV20.

Manual mode, 25P progressive, Aperture priority mode = F1.8, Custom White Balance, Optical Image Stabilization

***I haven't convert 50i (interlaced) to 25p yet.

 

[sgvideoman]

Night time performance of Canon HV20.

Manual mode, 25P progressive, CINEMA mode, AUTO White Balance, Optical Image Stabilization, Video Light ON

*** I have not converted the video from 50i to 25P yet.

 

[sgvideoman]

Video footage taken with Canon HV20:

http://forum.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=284581

 

[sgvideoman]

This baby's optical image stabilization is extremely good. I did a model shoot last year with an entry level JVC video cam with electronic stabilization. The whole video is very shaky.

I didn't use any tripod or monopod with the Canon HV20. Super steady video!

Optical stabilization (lens shift mechanical system) make a whole lot of difference. Electronic stability compensation using electronic stabilization just doesn't cut it.

 

[sgvideoman]

Taken using Canon HV20 also.

25P progressive, AUTO.