Canon enters mirrorless systems with EIS 700D next year?

[ricleo]

Olympus's EP3 AF speeds are indeed very fast and quick when used with the correct/new lens (new 14-42 MSC kit and 12mm F2), I have both the the EP3 and a canon system with L lenses, and when i say they are comparable to DSLR speeds, they really are. But then again i am using a 5D2 which ppl tend to bash for AF performance hahaha....

Current M4/3 sensors are still not as good as APS-C sensors, very true for high ISO, but i think they are at a pretty good and acceptable level now that iso 1600 is very usable. I don't really need iso 3200-12800 on my mirrorless camera which just supplements my DSLR system.

For cheaper lenses for m4/3, i would say it is definitely true. Taking the example of panasonic 7-14 which costs about 1.2-1.4k new , the equivalent 14-24 lens from nikon will set you back by almost 3k. Leica 14-150 OIS is about 1k, if u want a super L zoom from canon, ie the 28-300L, the price is not even close to the lumix 1K price range. Pana 20 F1.7, costs about the same as a canon 50mm F1.4, but bokeh of the canon wins for sure.

Anyway back to the topic, I would be quite disappointed if canon really goes for a 2X crop. not much incentive for me to switch back to canon then if the sensor is the same size as the m4/3 camp, unless they can offer some groundbreaking features or super nice retro design like the fuji X100 but with interchangable lens.

Olympus made lots of claims about the AF speeds on their cameras. However, NO ONE has been able to verify any of their claims so far... because AF speed depends on contrast, light intensity and lens motors... too many variables.

Current m4/3rd sensors are not as good as APS-C sensors in both low ISO (for dynamic range) and high ISO (for image noise). It is true that without heavy and expensive prisms, mirrorless bodies are quite attractive. But when it comes to sensors, I'll pick Sony's upcoming A77 or NEX-7 any day.

The idea about cheaper lenses for 4/3rd and m4/3rd is not exactly true. I once contemplated jumping onto the four-third bandwagon with these lenses: Panasonic 7-14 + Leica 14-150 f/3.5-5.6 OIS + Panasonic 20 f/1.7. Their prices kind of put me off.

 

[Far far away]

Aiyoh can't they just revive their old rangefinder series in a digital format and compete at the Leica M9 level (no extra costs for developing or manufacturing a FF sensor) rather than fighting for a share in an overcrowded 4/3 market. They gotta think ahead of the curve

Wow! That would be very nice!

 

[NewbieInCS]

Mirrorless systems don't seem very popular in Europe and most importantly North America. If a product fails to capture the American market, it is doomed.



Yup, most pancake lenses are f/2.8 or slower so far. I am not sure how f/1.2 and f/1.5 can be turned into pancake lenses. So, I agree the above specs sound more like fanboy dreams.



Errr... this sensor is supposedly 2x crop, just like four-third... so how can it be that much smaller?

Canon APS-C: 22.2 x 14.8 mm (1.6x crop)
4/3rd: 17.3 x 13 mm (2x crop)
EIS (rumored): 18 x 12 mm (2x crop)
Nikon mirrorless (rumored): my estimate ~ 14.5 x 9.8 mm (2.6x crop)

In any case, I am not surprised that both Nikon and Canon have chosen smaller sensors for their first foray into the mirrorless camera market. The basic philosophy driving their choice in sensor size is market segmentation.



Didn't you read about Canon's new manufacturing plants in Taiwan (particularly after the earthquake)? Nikon is planning something similar in Malaysia (the upcoming D400 is supposedly made in Malaysia).

I am not sure if mirrorless is popular in EU or US, but I do know that as long as they can gain popularity in asia, especially china, the market is there. The 2nd and 3rd tier cities in china are growing fast in demand for consumer items.

I didn't say the sensor is very much smaller than a 4/3 sensor, but it is indeed physically smaller than a 4/3 sensor due to the 4:3 vs 3:2 aspect ratio, despite they are both 2x crop.

 

[NewbieInCS]

I am also a M4/3 user, the e-pl2 to be exact. The af speed is actually pretty decent. JPG at ISO1600 is actually pretty good even if compared to current canon dslr. The raw is quite bad though. The kit lens is ok, nothing exciting. Comparable to a canon 18-55is kit lens. My complain is that there is no fast zoom and affordable large aperture prime for the m4/3 mount.

The idea of going mirrorless is actually pretty good and I can see why consumers will choose it over a entry level dslr. It is just lighter and more compact with similar image quality. Most consumers have no idea what sensor size or crop factor is. AF speed doesn't matter to them and in fact, some don't even wait for attempt to focus at the right place. Lens selection doesn't bother such users because they are probably going to stick with the kit lens till the camera or lens spoil.

 

[doodah]

Olympus's EP3 AF speeds are indeed very fast and quick when used with the correct/new lens (new 14-42 MSC kit and 12mm F2), I have both the the EP3 and a canon system with L lenses, and when i say they are comparable to DSLR speeds, they really are. But then again i am using a 5D2 which ppl tend to bash for AF performance hahaha....

Canon's 5D2 AF only gets bashed for peripheral AF points, not the centre. I do not doubt that EP3 AF speeds are fast... but to claim they are fastER is another thing...

For cheaper lenses for m4/3, i would say it is definitely true. Taking the example of panasonic 7-14 which costs about 1.2-1.4k new , the equivalent 14-24 lens from nikon will set you back by almost 3k. Leica 14-150 OIS is about 1k, if u want a super L zoom from canon, ie the 28-300L, the price is not even close to the lumix 1K price range. Pana 20 F1.7, costs about the same as a canon 50mm F1.4, but bokeh of the canon wins for sure.

Errr... you are making a leap from m43 to full-frame. Try APS-C. Compare price of Panasonic 7-14 to Sigma 8-16 (on APS-C) and price of 20 f/1.7 to 35 f/2 (on APS-C). Not that different right? The Leica 14-150 OIS lens has no optical equivalent in the APS-C arena as far as performance is concerned. But the Leica (NOT Olympus) lens itself costs ~ S$1800... not cheap is it? So, it is most definitely NOT true that m43 lenses are cheap. Besides, APS-C and m43 sensors are not vastly different in size, so we should not expect m43 lenses to be that much smaller (and therefore cheaper) than APS-C equivalent.

Quality comes with a price tag.

PS: I can replace the optical quality of Leica 14-150 OIS (535 g) with Canon 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS (200g) + 55-250 f/4-5.6 IS (390g). Similar in weight, but very different in price.

 

[SkyStrike]

I can see where the thread is heading towards....DSLR vs Mirrorless....

 

[doodah]

I can see where the thread is heading towards....DSLR vs Mirrorless....

If the rumor is almost certainly wrong, then there's nothing much to talk about... :bsmilie:

 

[renzokuken]

i'm more interested on how Canon's gonna market the mirror-less or EVIL system

the space between the prosumer compact cameras (G12, S95) and entry level DSLR (1100D, 600D) isn't very big
how are they gonna avoid self-cannibalising their market??

If the mirror-less line of cameras from canon proves to be optically superior to the entry DSLRs (1100D,600D) and at the same time priced at a similar range, the entire EF-S lens market along with the "Rebel" series is gonna suffer.

DSLR vs Mirror-less??

Technology is ever-changing. There's no need to take sides

Lets just wait, and see

And hopefully we consumers benefit at the end

 

[pinholecam]

The lenses are too optimistic.
Pancake as well as f1.2 is hard to believe.
Too many 'too fast' f1.2 lenses in the lineup to be credible.


I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[doodah]

DSLR vs Mirror-less??

Technology is ever-changing. There's no need to take sides

The next camera I wanna buy is most likely mirrorless. Sensor must be as good as Sony's current 16 MP APS-C sensor. Hopefully, it'll support my current lenses too.

 

[zuikoku]

The next camera I wanna buy is most likely mirrorless. Sensor must be as good as Sony's current 16 MP APS-C sensor. Hopefully, it'll support my current lenses too.

The booming demand of mirrorless interchangeable camera is driven by the versality of the legacy lenses.
Even the image quality is very similar those found on high-end D-SLR except the handling, robust, fps and battery performance.

Another photo shoot and show how nice the detail of pixels
Samsung NX-11 with 105/5.6 lens

 

[Prismatic]

To be honest, I'm not that excited by mirrorless compacts anymore. I'm a SLR user for
many years now but recently was comtemplating buying a mirrorless compact for those
days when I don't want to lug my equipment out. True, they are lighter and smaller but
it sorts of defeat the purpose if I still have to bring a couple of other lenses (even if they are
smaller). In fact, many of my friends who have mirrorless compacts, they just have one
lenses (the kit lens). They have never really thought of getting another lens cos they were
mostly buying it for the improved image quality over ordinary compacts.

It is also true that image sensors for mirrorless compacts are getting better. However, if sensors
for small cameras are getting better, it should alsomeans that sensors for bigger cameras are
getting better too. And it's just human nature for them to like bigger and better stuff.

 

[dronell]

Hmm... 700D? they should upgrade to 650D first then to 700D
Then how is it going to look like? like a DSLR or more on 4/3rd camera like the rest...

 

[Entertainer]

xitek? forget it. its just smoke without fire.

 

[nf0rc3r]

Aiyoh can't they just revive their old rangefinder series in a digital format and compete at the Leica M9 level (no extra costs for developing or manufacturing a FF sensor) rather than fighting for a share in an overcrowded 4/3 market. They gotta think ahead of the curve

Hmm. I still like the grip/weight/confidence a full fledge DSLR provides.
Mirrorless is like a 2 Door car. Yes. Many will like it but 4 door will still be the norm. I think. =x

 

[BraveHart]

Hmm. I still like the grip/weight/confidence a full fledge DSLR provides.
Mirrorless is like a 2 Door car. Yes. Many will like it but 4 door will still be the norm. I think. =x

Haha well that'll depend on what your shooting requirements are no? After all these years I still hate the bulk of the DSLRs and do crave for something lighter and yet with the image quality/high ISO performance of the DSLRs. Anyway this market segment (4/3) is definitely up and coming and as it does appear to fill the niche in between the current compacts and DSLRs.

 

[s598719]

Even if u r using DSLR, having a small, light m4/3 can complement. Like using the touch screen to shoot without the subjects (like your children) noticing, giving ur pics a more natural looking feel. Just a personal opinion.

Haha well that'll depend on what your shooting requirements are no? After all these years I still hate the bulk of the DSLRs and do crave for something lighter and yet with the image quality/high ISO performance of the DSLRs. Anyway this market segment (4/3) is definitely up and coming and as it does appear to fill the niche in between the current compacts and DSLRs.

 

[darr]

Dont they visit their camera museum anymore? I hope someone wakes up and take a look at their EOS IX. Thats how you design a super compact SLR!

 

[SilentSeth]

Personally I still prefer a dSLR for these reasons:

1. Even though people say it's smaller or more compact, it's still not pocket friendly.. And with the lens attached, it's no longer small, I guess. So I'm not really sure why people want to buy this for that reason (finding smaller cam with good IQ etc) - Again, IMHO, the difference in terms of dimension with a dSLR - unless you want to measure it cm by cm - is not that much.

2. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the electronic viewfinder on most mirrorless cam is a bit slower, compared to dSLRs. In practice, for me & most of us, this may not really make difference, but probably it will make difference for you who do sports/fast action photography.

*Slower as in.. when you're capturing moving objects, the electronic viewfinder simply doesn't render them fast enough to follow the object.

Just my 2 cents. Have a great Monday all!