Canon 7d picture is soft?

muvouser · Nov 29, 2009

Can Canon Fix this AF problem easily? If so, are they going to dismantle the camera to pieces to do so?

Thanks

doodah said:
Firmware upgrades will not help. It's a calibration issue.

.

doodah · Nov 29, 2009

muvouser said:
Can Canon Fix this AF problem easily? If so, are they going to dismantle the camera to pieces to do so?
Thanks

It's a software/electrical calibration procedure. There is no need to dismantle the camera. They can also swap the entire camera body out if they think it's necessary, but after testing another 7D body, I don't think it's gonna help. Looks like quite a few copies of 7D are afflicted with this problem. :sweat:

But, like I said earlier, it's easier to calibrate the lens to the camera body... if you only have 1 camera body.

viperDSLR · Nov 29, 2009

doodah said:
My 7D have severe AF inconsistency issues and it's been in the service center for more than a month now. I have visited the service center 4 times for this reason. Each time I went when I was told the camera was ready, but it never really delivered. :cry:

So, I am curious when your friend bought his 7D. Mine was bought in early October when it was first released. I normally do not like being Canon's guinea pig, but I wanted to give the 7D a swirl for my trip to China.

he bought it in mid Oct 09 and then returned ard end Oct 09. then he waited for the mid Nov 09 stock and then returned to get a MKII. Told me that it's was a relief immediately after he upgraded.... he has spent much time and tons of worries during the 2 mths of 'saga'. Told him that i'm glad i still hv my 450D.

commonjunks · Nov 29, 2009

viperDSLR said:
he bought it in mid Oct 09 and then returned ard end Oct 09. then he waited for the mid Nov 09 stock and then returned to get a MKII. Told me that it's was a relief immediately after he upgraded.... he has spent much time and tons of worries during the 2 mths of 'saga'. Told him that i'm glad i still hv my 450D.

Thats should be US not Singapore. I don't think here you can return like that.

viperDSLR · Nov 29, 2009

commonjunks said:
Thats should be US not Singapore. I don't think here you can return like that.

yapp... in Aussie.

muvouser · Nov 29, 2009

Are u saying that there is no cure to the problem? meaning that even if Canon has recalibrated the body, the AF issue still exists?

doodah said:
It's a software/electrical calibration procedure. There is no need to dismantle the camera. They can also swap the entire camera body out if they think it's necessary, but after testing another 7D body, I don't think it's gonna help. Looks like quite a few copies of 7D are afflicted with this problem. :sweat:

But, like I said earlier, it's easier to calibrate the lens to the camera body... if you only have 1 camera body.

naturephoto · Nov 29, 2009

Just look at these photos taken by 7D and tell me these are soft??

http://npss.org.sg/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3693
http://npss.org.sg/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3641
http://npss.org.sg/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3598
http://npss.org.sg/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3493
http://npss.org.sg/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3364
http://npss.org.sg/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3340
http://npss.org.sg/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3383

Those that claim the 7D produces soft image should probably post the image links and let us see if it is operator errors or camera.

commonjunks · Nov 29, 2009

I wanted to post these link but thought should ask those guys first but you took the lead

.
Anyway there are two sides to coin, i have also seen a lot shiat result from 5DMII. I got my 7D and more than happy with it, i think only need to bring my Sigy to calibrate other wise i have no problem in focusing.
Anyone want to know more about 7D and focusing technique, please look at this tutorial. It is very very helpful.
http://www.video.bhphotovideo.com/?fr_story=a405075c1837a65dbee4f4d48db9a26a992d3ab2&rf=bm.

doodah · Nov 29, 2009

viperDSLR said:
he bought it in mid Oct 09 and then returned ard end Oct 09. then he waited for the mid Nov 09 stock and then returned to get a MKII.

Thanks. Looks like it's a rather commonplace problem then.

muvouser said:
Are u saying that there is no cure to the problem? meaning that even if Canon has recalibrated the body, the AF issue still exists?

In my fourth visit, technician was able to tame the AF inconsistency issue by tweaking the camera body. I was not sure if it's 100% OK 'cos I could not test it more extensively. It continues to remain at the service center 'cos there is a constant front focus problem that needs to be addressed. It can be resolved through AF micro-adjustment for all lenses, but I do not think it's acceptable for a camera to behave that way.

PS: You'll be shocked to learn that Canon technicians do not check focusing by setting the lens aperture at its largest. How in the world were they trained? Have they ever used a camera? Do they practise any common sense?

commonjunks said:
Anyone want to know more about 7D and focusing technique, please look at this tutorial.

This is how AF inconsistency is checked:

i) mount camera + lens on tripod
ii) activate single shot, center AF point only
iii) focus lens on a target with STRONG CONTRAST (edge of black vs white)
iv) carry out a series of half-presses on the shutter (either with or without intentional defocusing between each half-press)
v) watch the distance scale on the lens
vi) if the distance scale moves or does not return to the same position after each half-press of the shutter, there is an AF inconsistency problem

As you can see, there is nothing complicated in this. No complex focusing technique or any other mumbo-jumbo. No ambiguity.

If the distance scale jumps all over the place, it's purely a hardware issue.

The same lens on my old camera body behaves consistently using the same test. The whole procedure was carried out before a technician who could find no flaw in such a test.

soons · Nov 30, 2009

naturephoto said:
Just look at these photos taken by 7D and tell me these are soft??

http://npss.org.sg/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3693
http://npss.org.sg/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3641
http://npss.org.sg/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3598
http://npss.org.sg/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3493
http://npss.org.sg/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3364
http://npss.org.sg/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3340
http://npss.org.sg/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3383

Those that claim the 7D produces soft image should probably post the image links and let us see if it is operator errors or camera.

Dude, if resize images are soft, your camera is facing a big issue, or the photographer has big issue telling the camera to focus.

viperDSLR · Nov 30, 2009

doodah said:
Thanks. Looks like it's a rather commonplace problem then.

In my fourth visit, technician was able to tame the AF inconsistency issue by tweaking the camera body. I was not sure if it's 100% OK 'cos I could not test it more extensively. It continues to remain at the service center 'cos there is a constant front focus problem that needs to be addressed. It can be resolved through AF micro-adjustment for all lenses, but I do not think it's acceptable for a camera to behave that way.

PS: You'll be shocked to learn that Canon technicians do not check focusing by setting the lens aperture at its largest. How in the world were they trained? Have they ever used a camera? Do they practise any common sense?

This is how AF inconsistency is checked:

i) mount camera + lens on tripod
ii) activate single shot, center AF point only
iii) focus lens on a target with STRONG CONTRAST (edge of black vs white)
iv) carry out a series of half-presses on the shutter (either with or without intentional defocusing between each half-press)
v) watch the distance scale on the lens
vi) if the distance scale moves or does not return to the same position after each half-press of the shutter, there is an AF inconsistency problem

As you can see, there is nothing complicated in this. No complex focusing technique or any other mumbo-jumbo. No ambiguity.

If the distance scale jumps all over the place, it's purely a hardware issue.

The same lens on my old camera body behaves consistently using the same test. The whole procedure was carried out before a technician who could find no flaw in such a test.

hi Bro, can u explain further on pt (vi). not too sure about this point, i don't quite understand. tks.

doodah · Nov 30, 2009

viperDSLR said:
hi Bro, can u explain further on pt (vi). not too sure about this point, i don't quite understand. tks.

With each half-press on the shutter, the camera is supposed to re-check focus and commands the lens motor to respond appropriately. If the camera to object distance does not change (which is clearly the case when target is stationary and camera is mounted on a tripod), then the camera does not need to respond to every subsequent half-press of the shutter.

Now, if the camera AF has gone bonkers, then each time you half-press the shutter, the camera rechecks focus, thinks the focus is off and commands the lens motor to move. Consequently, the distance scale on the lens keeps changing even though the camera to target distance has never changed! The result is inconsistent AF.

chicklit · Nov 30, 2009

Hi bro.
Suddenly I remember my experience around 1 year ago, the time when I'm still own my 70-200 f2.8 L (non IS). I have a friend who just purchase a 50D camera (mine is 400D), and he also has similar lens (70-200 f2.8 L - non IS). We go for photoshots in the Katong area. Everything ok, until my friend realize his cam (or lens) cannot focusing to one signboard on the street, which my bundle able to do it (and able to take picture). So, out of curiousity, we swap lenses, and now my cam (with his lens) not able to focusing on that signboard, but his camera able to do it (with my lens). Is this considered also as AF inconsistency between lenses? Which one lens able to focus, and another one simply fail. Because after my friend return it to CSC, CSC respond is not all the lens 100% exactly same, and they not see this as a problem since this lens is still able to produce sharp pictures (although the fail ratio - for my opinion - is quite high). Oh ya, this lens has no back/front focusing issue.

emerald · Nov 30, 2009

Things in 2009 really messy, like the FIFA09 game got so many ridiculous bugs, 7D also have so many hardware quality control issues!

The AF inconsistency issue and the softer image issue must be from the hardware defects, so we just need to be 'lucky' to get the body with good quality.

Feels sorry for those got problematic bodies, but they are still the minority, majority of us are still happy with the image monster.

Lucky I got a good copy.

So far 100% happy with the focusing accuracy and speed, and sharpness is not a issue at all!

viperDSLR · Nov 30, 2009

doodah said:
With each half-press on the shutter, the camera is supposed to re-check focus and commands the lens motor to respond appropriately. If the camera to object distance does not change (which is clearly the case when target is stationary and camera is mounted on a tripod), then the camera does not need to respond to every subsequent half-press of the shutter.

Now, if the camera AF has gone bonkers, then each time you half-press the shutter, the camera rechecks focus, thinks the focus is off and commands the lens motor to move. Consequently, the distance scale on the lens keeps changing even though the camera to target distance has never changed! The result is inconsistent AF.

very clear explaination. Hv learnt something today. tks Bro.

sci80899 · Nov 30, 2009

Wow, looking at all the 7D issues, wondering if Canon is delaying their Mk IV release, because they want to double QC all their units

doodah · Nov 30, 2009

chicklit said:
Which one lens able to focus, and another one simply fail. Because after my friend return it to CSC, CSC respond is not all the lens 100% exactly same, and they not see this as a problem since this lens is still able to produce sharp pictures (although the fail ratio - for my opinion - is quite high). Oh ya, this lens has no back/front focusing issue.

(i) The lens can still be calibrated for a particular body, even if it's an AF inconsistency issue.

(ii) That response from Singapore CSC is hardly a surprise to me. They try their utter best to push away every job (alternatively, they do a sloppy job and pretend it's OK). The best way is to set up the test I describe earlier IN FRONT OF THEM; one needs to shove it into their face before they are willing to admit it's a problem. Sigh.

Of course, there are times when they seem to do a good job. Guess it depends on which technician you run into.

faineant · Nov 30, 2009

vlg134 · Dec 14, 2009

doodah said:
(i) The lens can still be calibrated for a particular body, even if it's an AF inconsistency issue.

(ii) That response from Singapore CSC is hardly a surprise to me. They try their utter best to push away every job (alternatively, they do a sloppy job and pretend it's OK). The best way is to set up the test I describe earlier IN FRONT OF THEM; one needs to shove it into their face before they are willing to admit it's a problem. Sigh.

Of course, there are times when they seem to do a good job. Guess it depends on which technician you run into.

so you recommend to bring it down to CSC to ask them to calibrate? My photos all are really soft :cry:

rwhite · Dec 14, 2009

vlg134 said:
so you recommend to bring it down to CSC to ask them to calibrate? My photos all are really soft :cry:

Can you paste one of your picture here? so we can comment on it? :think::think:

dangz... i'm considering getting 7D :think::think:

Canon 7d picture is soft?

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