Can anyone recommend LX7 or G15 (and housing) as a starting camera?

[cherieamour]

Hi everyone,

I have a DSLR and a Fuji X-Pro1 but am thinking of going with a point and shoot for underwater photography as it can do wide, tele and macro. My plan was to buy a housing for my sister's Canon S100 but it has some AF problems and my friends also recommended buying something of the Canon G15 standard instead as I may prefer a camera which allows me more control.

I've been looking at both the G15 and the Panasonic LX-7 and housings, but my plan is to stay close to the $1,000 benchmark. For the G15, I read that the Canon and Ikelite (which costs more) housings don't give full access to the camera controls, so I've been looking at the Fantasea housing (which does not have many reviews or seem as established a brand), if not my second choice will be the cheaper Canon housing not to bust the budget. For the LX7, it seems like the only control that is not accessible with the Ikelite housing is the neutral density/manual focus lever - I'm not sure if I will need to access this underwater.

The G15 (more pricey) has a better zoom, but the LX7 (slightly cheaper) has better apertures. I'm not planning to buy a strobe till perhaps early next year when the budget allows, and will likely be taking more macros and wideangle sometimes.

Can anyone recommend something given the choices above and why? I'm planning to get the items by this weekend so I can try them on a dive trip soon, thanks in advance for any replies!

 

[diver-hloc]

Both Canon's G15 & Panasonic's LX7 are very popular camera used by divers... in SG, G15 is the most popular of the 2, mainly due the availability of 'cheap' acrylic casing. For LX7... as far as i know... there is only Ikelite ($550USD) and Nuaticam ($950USD)... which is way more $$$.

My suggestion to you... with a budget of $1000... get a acrylic casing and with the $$$ saved, get yourself a Strobe. Currently in our local Scuba Diving Forum... the recommended Strobe is Sea & Sea YS-D1. With a slight increase in your budget... Canon's OEM casing + Strobe + Arms, Tray, Handle, Clamp + Miscellaneous item, its possible to be found for around $1.4k-$1.5k..

A Strobe light would be more useful in the long run than a high-end casing... beside, PnS camera come and goes... an expensive casing NOW, would be relatively cheap after G16 or LX8 comes out.... a good Strobe could be transferred from one camera to another... even PnS to DSLR.


Hope this helps... ask if you have more or other question.

 

[cherieamour]

Both Canon's G15 & Panasonic's LX7 are very popular camera used by divers... in SG, G15 is the most popular of the 2, mainly due the availability of 'cheap' acrylic casing. For LX7... as far as i know... there is only Ikelite ($550USD) and Nuaticam ($950USD)... which is way more $$$.

My suggestion to you... with a budget of $1000... get a acrylic casing and with the $$$ saved, get yourself a Strobe. Currently in our local Scuba Diving Forum... the recommended Strobe is Sea & Sea YS-D1. With a slight increase in your budget... Canon's OEM casing + Strobe + Arms, Tray, Handle, Clamp + Miscellaneous item, its possible to be found for around $1.4k-$1.5k..

A Strobe light would be more useful in the long run than a high-end casing... beside, PnS camera come and goes... an expensive casing NOW, would be relatively cheap after G16 or LX8 comes out.... a good Strobe could be transferred from one camera to another... even PnS to DSLR.


Hope this helps... ask if you have more or other question.

Thanks for the reply! I hope I'm not being ignorant but I read people posting that there is "no point getting a strobe unless there is control" of the real and front dials, which acrylic cases do not have access to, is that true? I'm also wondering how do cases with two O-rings make it less flood prone cos now it is more possible for things to go wrong around two items. Sorry I hope I'm not asking silly questions :embrass: I'm also thinking, if going with Canon's OEM casing might as well go for the NB housing which has the 67mm thread, or do you think the Canon housing would be better made?

Thanks again

 

[diver-hloc]

Thanks for the reply! I hope I'm not being ignorant but I read people posting that there is "no point getting a strobe unless there is control" of the real and front dials, which acrylic cases do not have access to, is that true? I'm also wondering how do cases with two O-rings make it less flood prone cos now it is more possible for things to go wrong around two items. Sorry I hope I'm not asking silly questions :embrass: I'm also thinking, if going with Canon's OEM casing might as well go for the NB housing which has the 67mm thread, or do you think the Canon housing would be better made?

Thanks again

You are not being 'ignorant'... just that this section doesn't have lots of traffic and our hobby of Scuba Diving + Photography isn't considered cheap for most people... some don't dive, other not willing to spent more on accessories than on the camera itself... :bsmilie:


Now... while I hasn't use G or S series camera before... I believed that there are 'short-cuts' which you can still use to control Aperture and Shutter Speed even if you can't use the dial... the camera does have a programable 'S' button (top left hand corner, rear) that could be programed to switch between Shutter or Aperture control....read this link to find out more...

QUICK REVIEW: CANON POWERSHOT G15 AND WP-DC48 UNDERWATER HOUSING (UPATED) | Deepshots


As to why 2 O ring is considered 'better'... its like why some aunties use two layer of plastic bag to buy fish at NTUC... just incase one has issue... hopefully the other is still keeping the camera safe.

If you are interested in getting a housing with a 67mm filter thread... why only consider G15 or LX7 when both Olympus XZ-1 and XZ-2, both are capable cameras, have OEM underwater casing that comes with 67mm thread...

Olympus PT-054 Underwater Housing for Olympus XZ-2

 

[cherieamour]

You are not being 'ignorant'... just that this section doesn't have lots of traffic and our hobby of Scuba Diving + Photography isn't considered cheap for most people... some don't dive, other not willing to spent more on accessories than on the camera itself... :bsmilie:


Now... while I hasn't use G or S series camera before... I believed that there are 'short-cuts' which you can still use to control Aperture and Shutter Speed even if you can't use the dial... the camera does have a programable 'S' button (top left hand corner, rear) that could be programed to switch between Shutter or Aperture control....read this link to find out more...

QUICK REVIEW: CANON POWERSHOT G15 AND WP-DC48 UNDERWATER HOUSING (UPATED) | Deepshots


As to why 2 O ring is considered 'better'... its like why some aunties use two layer of plastic bag to buy fish at NTUC... just incase one has issue... hopefully the other is still keeping the camera safe.

If you are interested in getting a housing with a 67mm filter thread... why only consider G15 or LX7 when both Olympus XZ-1 and XZ-2, both are capable cameras, have OEM underwater casing that comes with 67mm thread...

Olympus PT-054 Underwater Housing for Olympus XZ-2

Thanks again for the reply and plastic bag analogy haha I forgot all about the XZ2 somehow, despite recommending the XZ1 and the PT050 to someone two years ago. I just googled and saw that the XZ2 casing can go to 45m - I was earlier worried that the XZ1 casing would spoil should I end up going (although I would hope not) to 40m. Just saw the the casing allows access to the lens ring! For a lot cheaper than 3rd-party housings for Canon which allow the same access. Thing is I just realised my sister's S100 is still under warranty - and for about my $1,000 budget I could go buy a Canon housing (and may get frustrated with the lack of access to both front and rear rings) and an Inon s2000 strobe, or I could get a Recsea housing and get access to both rings but not afford a strobe. I have no plans to get a wideangle lens in the near future, and would be thinking of either a strobe or a macro lens next. I read online on uwphotography guide that there is no need to get a strobe until one can take good photos with internal flash among other things though. Now that I can fix my sister's S100 - which option would you recommend? Coming from a DSLR background and enjoying easy access to aperture, shutter, focusing ring... I'm not sure if I would be frustrated with a cheaper case, or should I put up with a harder way to access aperture and shutter speed so I can buy either a strobe or macro lens?

 

[diver-hloc]

Thanks again for the reply and plastic bag analogy haha I forgot all about the XZ2 somehow, despite recommending the XZ1 and the PT050 to someone two years ago. I just googled and saw that the XZ2 casing can go to 45m - I was earlier worried that the XZ1 casing would spoil should I end up going (although I would hope not) to 40m. Just saw the the casing allows access to the lens ring! For a lot cheaper than 3rd-party housings for Canon which allow the same access. Thing is I just realised my sister's S100 is still under warranty - and for about my $1,000 budget I could go buy a Canon housing (and may get frustrated with the lack of access to both front and rear rings) and an Inon s2000 strobe, or I could get a Recsea housing and get access to both rings but not afford a strobe. I have no plans to get a wideangle lens in the near future, and would be thinking of either a strobe or a macro lens next. I read online on uwphotography guide that there is no need to get a strobe until one can take good photos with internal flash among other things though. Now that I can fix my sister's S100 - which option would you recommend? Coming from a DSLR background and enjoying easy access to aperture, shutter, focusing ring... I'm not sure if I would be frustrated with a cheaper case, or should I put up with a harder way to access aperture and shutter speed so I can buy either a strobe or macro lens?

Recommend Strobe before anything else...

Since you come from a DSLR background... you'll know that lighting is very important... which is why most DSLR user buy a speedlite or any other extended light source... and not depend just on the pop-up flash.

With a good Strobe... you'll be surprise how much improvement you could get from your basic PnS camera's setting :bsmilie:

 

[cherieamour]

Recommend Strobe before anything else...

Since you come from a DSLR background... you'll know that lighting is very important... which is why most DSLR user buy a speedlite or any other extended light source... and not depend just on the pop-up flash.

With a good Strobe... you'll be surprise how much improvement you could get from your basic PnS camera's setting :bsmilie:

thanks for the reply! i like shooting with available light on land and a fast lens, however I don't think there is much available light below haha. i don't use my strobe on land except when shooting macros (a fast shutter speed is so important) which probably answers my own question that i should get both a macro lens and strobe at the same time. ok I will go for the cheaper case and accessories instead and hope I don't get frustrated with it. Thanks for your help diver-hloc

 

[diver-hloc]

thanks for the reply! i like shooting with available light on land and a fast lens, however I don't think there is much available light below haha. i don't use my strobe on land except when shooting macros (a fast shutter speed is so important) which probably answers my own question that i should get both a macro lens and strobe at the same time. ok I will go for the cheaper case and accessories instead and hope I don't get frustrated with it. Thanks for your help diver-hloc

Suggest you go for a Inon or Sea & Sea Strobe... Avoid Ikelite Strobe unless you are using an Ikelite housing...

 

[cherieamour]

Suggest you go for a Inon or Sea & Sea Strobe... Avoid Ikelite Strobe unless you are using an Ikelite housing...

Thanks for the reply! Am thinking of the Inon S2000, it seems to have good reviews By the way, is there anything to look out for when buying a tray and arm, is there a certain recommended arm length for compact cameras? or with a single strobe is it good enough to just attach it to the hotshoe mount? I've seen a gorillapod like arm for strobes too. Also, is it really necessary to bring the case down without camera on the first dive, or is it ok enough just to test without camera at the bottom of a swimming pool (say 2m depth) before bringing it on a trip?

Sorry for so many questions!

 

[diver-hloc]

Personally... I know of no diver using Inon S2000 yet. Alot of my fellow diver is using Inon's high-end Z-240 or Sea & Sea's YS-110/YS-01... currently, Sea & Sea's YS-D1 is their flagship model and is very much the sort after Strobe in SG.

Never mount the Strobe on the casing hotshoe mount... that is used to mount light item like dive/focusing light... NOT Strobe.

The normal way of mounting a Strobe to PnS camera is with a Tray (base plate) + Handgrip (handle) + Arm. I personally won't recommend using gorillapod like arms. The arms get loose after sometime.. and isn't as flexible as you would think. For budget Tray and Arms... either look for 2nd hand set... or try this local brand - Sea-Gadget - Which uses the ULCS standard, and therefore... compatible to the well known Ultra-light Clamp System (ULCS).

You'll need...

1x Tray (base plate)
1x Handgrip (handle)
1x 8" Arm (suggest 8" because its the most flexible length, get the ULCS version if budget allows)
2x clamp
1x Strobe to Arm mounting (SC-SH-033 of Sea Gadget)

All this should cost around $250-$270... you'll also need a set of Fiber-Optics Cable which is used to trigger the Strobe to 'fire' when your camera's built-in flash goes off. Sadly... I always find such cables to be overly $$$ ($50-$60).


As for should you bring just the empty casing down for the 1st dive... I find that kind of pointless. Alot of newbies does this with the wrong impression that should the casing remained unflooded... means everything is 'safe'. But divers forgets that its only 'true' if you NEVER open the casing ever again. Because the moment the casing is reopened... all deal is off and you'll back to square one. The more correct way of doing stuff is to follow a standard checking procedure... example, check O Ring and do a tank test before diving.

Read Post #13 - http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/underwater-photography/1240438-underwater-compact-suggestions.html

 

[cherieamour]

Personally... I know of no diver using Inon S2000 yet. Alot of my fellow diver is using Inon's high-end Z-240 or Sea & Sea's YS-110/YS-01... currently, Sea & Sea's YS-D1 is their flagship model and is very much the sort after Strobe in SG.

Never mount the Strobe on the casing hotshoe mount... that is used to mount light item like dive/focusing light... NOT Strobe.

The normal way of mounting a Strobe to PnS camera is with a Tray (base plate) + Handgrip (handle) + Arm. I personally won't recommend using gorillapod like arms. The arms get loose after sometime.. and isn't as flexible as you would think. For budget Tray and Arms... either look for 2nd hand set... or try this local brand - Sea-Gadget - Which uses the ULCS standard, and therefore... compatible to the well known Ultra-light Clamp System (ULCS).

You'll need...

1x Tray (base plate)
1x Handgrip (handle)
1x 8" Arm (suggest 8" because its the most flexible length, get the ULCS version if budget allows)
2x clamp
1x Strobe to Arm mounting (SC-SH-033 of Sea Gadget)

All this should cost around $250-$270... you'll also need a set of Fiber-Optics Cable which is used to trigger the Strobe to 'fire' when your camera's built-in flash goes off. Sadly... I always find such cables to be overly $$$ ($50-$60).


As for should you bring just the empty casing down for the 1st dive... I find that kind of pointless. Alot of newbies does this with the wrong impression that should the casing remained unflooded... means everything is 'safe'. But divers forgets that its only 'true' if you NEVER open the casing ever again. Because the moment the casing is reopened... all deal is off and you'll back to square one. The more correct way of doing stuff is to follow a standard checking procedure... example, check O Ring and do a tank test before diving.

Read Post #13 - http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/underwater-photography/1240438-underwater-compact-suggestions.html

thanks for the reply, will do the tank test. I've also read though of people who jump in with their cameras and the impact hitting something out of place, resulting in a flood. thanks for the suggestions, will look at it, not sure about the other strobes. i'm frankly quite worried to go diving holding a few new things at once. likely getting a set like this NB Housing Pro for Canon S100 with F.I.T. Tray and INON Strobe Set hope it isn't a bad idea

 

[diver-hloc]

thanks for the reply, will do the tank test. I've also read though of people who jump in with their cameras and the impact hitting something out of place, resulting in a flood. thanks for the suggestions, will look at it, not sure about the other strobes. i'm frankly quite worried to go diving holding a few new things at once. likely getting a set like this NB Housing Pro for Canon S100 with F.I.T. Tray and INON Strobe Set hope it isn't a bad idea

Yup... in my case.. almost kena a Whale Shark.... and I'm not joking. :sweat:

But NO... highly unlikely this will happen. If you are doing a 'Backroll'... a small setup will be tuck near your tummy as you roll backwards... your head will hit something 1st before your camera. If you are doing a 'Giant Stride' entry.... one hand hold your mask and reg... the free hand hold your setup (Not weight belt).... as you move forward, raise the arm holding the camera over your head.. most time, your camera won't even touches water before you pop up onto the surface.

BUT.... easiest method is to treat the boatman and his assistant well ($$ tips $$).... jump into the water whatever way you want... have the boatman or the assistant pass the camera to you from the boat after you surfaced. Everyone using a DSLR setup does that...

And yes... most common PnS+Strobe setup look like the one from 'Fun-In'... you'll add better parts or upgrade it as and when there is a need or budget. The advance version is usually dual Strobe... with attached dive/focusing light, and with Close-up filter and/or Wide Angel converter.

Starts slow and built up your system as you dive more and is better at it...

 

[cherieamour]

Yup... in my case.. almost kena a Whale Shark.... and I'm not joking. :sweat:

But NO... highly unlikely this will happen. If you are doing a 'Backroll'... a small setup will be tuck near your tummy as you roll backwards... your head will hit something 1st before your camera. If you are doing a 'Giant Stride' entry.... one hand hold your mask and reg... the free hand hold your setup (Not weight belt).... as you move forward, raise the arm holding the camera over your head.. most time, your camera won't even touches water before you pop up onto the surface.

BUT.... easiest method is to treat the boatman and his assistant well ($$ tips $$).... jump into the water whatever way you want... have the boatman or the assistant pass the camera to you from the boat after you surfaced. Everyone using a DSLR setup does that...

And yes... most common PnS+Strobe setup look like the one from 'Fun-In'... you'll add better parts or upgrade it as and when there is a need or budget. The advance version is usually dual Strobe... with attached dive/focusing light, and with Close-up filter and/or Wide Angel converter.

Starts slow and built up your system as you dive more and is better at it...

Thanks for the reply! Spent over an hour today checking o rings and testing in a pool. I read your post on maintenance but was wondering if it will be harmful to leave the o ring untouched in my unopened housing for two or three days before a dive trip so there's no need to regrease and check again on the day itself, or would it still be best to take it out and do everything again at the resort? Sorry to trouble you with so many questions!

 

[diver-hloc]

Thanks for the reply! Spent over an hour today checking o rings and testing in a pool. I read your post on maintenance but was wondering if it will be harmful to leave the o ring untouched in my unopened housing for two or three days before a dive trip so there's no need to regrease and check again on the day itself, or would it still be best to take it out and do everything again at the resort? Sorry to trouble you with so many questions!

You could... I know alot of 'Bo Chap' driver who don't even bother to grease or check. So, its up to you. :bsmilie:

The reason you remove the O Ring is because the Salt Crystal or Sand, could be trap behind the O Ring where you could have miss it just by looking looking at the O Ring. This happened to me in Bali... didn't notice the sand behind the O Ring till it begin to flood in 5 meter of water... Thxs God I notice it fast enough and save my camera before the sea water even touches the camera... :sweat:

 

[cherieamour]

You could... I know alot of 'Bo Chap' driver who don't even bother to grease or check. So, its up to you. :bsmilie:

The reason you remove the O Ring is because the Salt Crystal or Sand, could be trap behind the O Ring where you could have miss it just by looking looking at the O Ring. This happened to me in Bali... didn't notice the sand behind the O Ring till it begin to flood in 5 meter of water... Thxs God I notice it fast enough and save my camera before the sea water even touches the camera... :sweat:

Thanks for the reply - it didn't leak in the pool or in the pail, however I decided to open the housings to check and there was water on the o rings - after leaving my strobe and housing to dry for about 8 hours. Does this mean the seal wasn't good, or there is residual water that ended up on the o ring after I opened the compartment? I'm quite confused cos there was no leak but I read on one website that water on the o ring is bad news. Is that true?

 

[diver-hloc]

Thanks for the reply - it didn't leak in the pool or in the pail, however I decided to open the housings to check and there was water on the o rings - after leaving my strobe and housing to dry for about 8 hours. Does this mean the seal wasn't good, or there is residual water that ended up on the o ring after I opened the compartment? I'm quite confused cos there was no leak but I read on one website that water on the o ring is bad news. Is that true?

There will always be some water droplet on the O Ring when you open the casing... don't worry, its normal. Water on O Ring could spell trouble, depending on the type of Casing and the method which the casing is locked... some high end model are sealed/locked by multiply locks (3 for my Ikelite DSLR casing). The seal is much tighter... but even that, I still could find water on my O Ring. :bsmilie:

As you seal/lock up the casing... there will be a small gap between the 2 half of the case. Under pressure... water will slip in between those gap, but the O Ring, which is compressed, act as a seal between the halfs.... preventing water from going further. BUT... water will still be there. Also, When you open the casing, good chance that water around the outside of the casing finds it way onto the O Ring... even the surface of the camera sometimes.... all these are perfectly normal. Btw... Fine sand could also find its way onto the O Ring in the same way...  

Remember me saying why you should remove and reinstall your O Ring daily ?? The above is the reason... Salt water when dried, form salt crystals. Nearly impossible to see... but could easily be felt by your finger. When you remove the O Ring after a day of diving... run you finger across the length of the O Ring... if you feel any sandy-ness... its either Salt or Fine Sand. Which goes back to why you should remove the O Ring for a manual check every night.

If you are one of those people who can't wake up early to do it... not an issue at all to do it the night before bed. Just make sure your camera battery is fully charged and memory card installed... clean and check the casing and O Ring before locking the casing... and you'll be good to go in the morning.

BTW... try to lock your casing in an Aircon environment.... Aircon rooms have drier air... drier air meant less moisture, meant less chance for your casing to fog up inside during a dive. Some diver use silicon drying agent... but I find those too troublesome as they could shift around, blocking certain control buttons at the worst of time... Also, switching off the camera when no in use not only save battery power... but also produce less 'Heat'... which meant again, less chance of fogging up the inside of your casing...