BW Slide developement using Ilford method

[zk-diq]

Some photos:

Not bad really, but not perfect either.. There is still quite a bit of dust sticking on the emulsion when I remove the film to expose to light, maybe will soak in photoflo first... and the highlights is like not v clear.. dunno if its exposed too long to light already or is the bleach not long enough or is not enough silver solvent.. especially evident in the film name and the numbering; supposed to very clear, here its quite faint leh.. any ideas zk-diq?

But I must add, the grain is like super fine.. like its almost not there..haha

you need to 5 to 10 um water filter to reduce particles in all liquid, you probably need to harden your emulation for the not v clear matt finished looking highlight area (transparent). Those were the problem we have when emulation is soft and after it dry, but I believe when you project to screen is still acceptable. Matt finished screen.

 

[kgston]

Scanned using Nikon 9000? Looks good

Yup, straight out w/o pp

you need to 5 to 10 um water filter to reduce particles in all liquid, you probably need to harden your emulation for the not v clear matt finished looking highlight area (transparent). Those were the problem we have when emulation is soft and after it dry, but I believe when you project to screen is still acceptable. Matt finished screen.

Hmm..Maybe I need hardener after all, still use it after the first dev right? will try to look for it, ruby dun sell it any more.. I will try filtered water next time, but dunno how powerful is my hse drinking water filter..lols..

 

[zk-diq]

Those old days when cinema project their still Ad to screen, format is about 2.5x3.5 inch. sandwich with 2 pc of 0.5mm optical grade glass. For BW Blue sensitive film were use to contact to positive image, reversal process is not practical. Quality can be 80% close to original. Colour text graphic, use dye transfer method like reversal process using lith film/matrix film, bleach away silver, dye bath with colour dye register all together become final slide for projection.

 

[kgston]

Those old days when cinema project their still Ad to screen, format is about 2.5x3.5 inch. sandwich with 2 pc of 0.5mm optical grade glass. For BW Blue sensitive film were use to contact to positive image, reversal process is not practical. Quality can be 80% close to original. Colour text graphic, use dye transfer method like reversal process using lith film/matrix film, bleach away silver, dye bath with colour dye register all together become final slide for projection.

Icic..well.. its not surprising that if you try to do smth with a product that wasn't exactly designed to do, the quality will drops to an extent.. haha.. ohh well.. its not like I want to do it because I think slides are more superior to negs or anything of the sort.. neither do I have a projector that can project slides too.. Just do for fun, like an interesting project, see what the effects are. Its nice to see the image on film instead of the usual negative image.. Will develop a few more rolls using different films to investigate the differences and probably after that will just go back to doing negs..haha.. easier, cheaper and faster.

By the way, I managed to get this bottle alum powder from a baking shop, can it be use as the same way as potassium alum? Read on wikipedia they might be the same thing, but no confirmation.

 

[zk-diq]

Icic..well.. its not surprising that if you try to do smth with a product that wasn't exactly designed to do, the quality will drops to an extent.. haha.. ohh well.. its not like I want to do it because I think slides are more superior to negs or anything of the sort.. neither do I have a projector that can project slides too.. Just do for fun, like an interesting project, see what the effects are. Its nice to see the image on film instead of the usual negative image.. Will develop a few more rolls using different films to investigate the differences and probably after that will just go back to doing negs..haha.. easier, cheaper and faster.

By the way, I managed to get this bottle alum powder from a baking shop, can it be use as the same way as potassium alum? Read on wikipedia they might be the same thing, but no confirmation.

never try that before, I dont use it for baking either, haha. what you can do is sock your old/waste/damage previous film in water, when the emulation is soft, try add some in it, see can work?:think:

 

[kgston]

never try that before, I dont use it for baking either, haha. what you can do is sock your old/waste/damage previous film in water, when the emulation is soft, try add some in it, see can work?:think:

Hmm.. good idea!! What will harden film feel like? will it feel like dry emulsion when when wet? or feel like the base material?

I was thinking, since Ilford have launched their direct positive paper, BW slides could be used to do a direct print like negs.. though I dun see any advantages over doing it the neg way..lols!!

 

[zk-diq]

Hmm.. good idea!! What will harden film feel like? will it feel like dry emulsion when when wet? or feel like the base material?

I was thinking, since Ilford have launched their direct positive paper, BW slides could be used to do a direct print like negs.. though I dun see any advantages over doing it the neg way..lols!!

when wet soft emulsion feel slippery.

I never use direct positive BW paper before. No comment. However for cibachrome and kodak R14 Slide to print we need a highlight mask to retain highlight detail and contrast. Colour slide has a density range of more then 3.4, compare with BW slide most likely 2.2 should have less issue. exposure and processing latitude usually is narrower.

 

[kgston]

when wet soft emulsion feel slippery.

Haha.. I was referring to how does the emulsion feel like when harden? I know what soft emulsion feels like So I know what to look out for when trying it..;p

 

[kgston]

hmm the alum powder from the baking shop doesn't work.. i still can scratch off the emulsion. but doesn't matter so much la..did abit of research on the PanF50 film.. seems like the 35mm version is coated on grey acetate base..may explain the "slighly fogged" highlights.. will try 120 delta 100 when i got the time..apparently 120 roll film is coated on a clear acetate base..

 

[zk-diq]

hmm the alum powder from the baking shop doesn't work.. i still can scratch off the emulsion. but doesn't matter so much la..did abit of research on the PanF50 film.. seems like the 35mm version is coated on grey acetate base..may explain the "slighly fogged" highlights.. will try 120 delta 100 when i got the time..apparently 120 roll film is coated on a clear acetate base..

Only dedicated film use clear acetate/ polyaster thin base.

 

[kgston]

Manage to develop the 120 Delta 100 to not much success this time.. The emulsion managed to stay on the emulsion but at the very end while drying.. it was dripping "grey water" lols!!.. I increased the power of the bleach slightly to see the effects..but alas, I shud have just used the previous amount. The "grey water" mostly affected the highlights where the emulsion was the thinnest so I shaln't bother to post any pics..not very exciting anyways The clear acetate base makes a difference though.. I must add though.. this process is very very tedious... Just to develop one roll of 120 film, need about 1 pail (the big red standard kind) and about 1L of ice just for the water bath and to double up as water to rinse the film with.. I'll post new updates again when I develop another roll of BW slides... maybe FP4plus this time round..

 

[kgston]

After many long months I have finally managed to improve on my development method and finally found the time (and effort, had some friends who were interested to help me out with the preparation) to develop a few rolls. The only exception this time, was that I used thiourea to replace the fogging agent, second developer and fixer.

For the benefit of those who are new to this, BW slide developement from normal BW negs follows this process:

1. First development - to develop the negative image
2. Bleach - to remove the developed negative (leaving the undeveloped positive behind)
3. Clearing Bath - to clear up the highly oxidized material on the film
4. Second Developer with fogging agent OR re-exposure to light - to expose the undeveloped positive and develop it
5. Fixer - to remove any residual silver halide
6. Final Rinse

All these has to be carried out below 20 deg C; which is troublesome as it requires a lot of ice and a water bath and constant monitoring. As such, this time round, I used thiourea to replace the 4th and 5th step and most importantly, remove the need for re-exposure to light (this is the one that cause majority of the problems).

Sample photos:

There are some mysterious white spots on the emulsion which I cannot seem to figure out.. Had it only on this roll. I read that it could be due to residual powder from incomplete mixing of powder developer, but I used PQ developer which is a liquid concentrate (maybe the one I used was like half opened for almost a year already), so this is quite puzzling. Any ideas?

100% crop of the second picture. The acutance is rather poor, but on the plus side, the grain is almost invisible.

Photos was shot on Ilford PanF 50, Mamiya 7

FAQ:
Some advantages of using thiourea? Archival images.. Silver sulphide is known to be very stable and no worries about the image decomposing.
Drawbacks? You get sepia toned images.
Where to get thiourea? You can find it in a box of Tetenal Triponal Toner which ruby sells.

 

[raytoei]

wow! i am in awe.....thanks for sharing this alternative process.

 

[wootsk]

Yo, when we gotten the sodium bisulphate (most likely next saturday), we can say bye bye to the days where we scrape car battery for sulphuric acid. I am not sure of the tetenal triponal toner, but if someone needs thiourea, I can check my fridge to see how much of it I have left.

@raytoei

If you are interested, you can join us if I, Kgston and uncle roger has anymore activity. I just gotten some Ektar 100 4*5 (Thanks to Kgston for getting it for me when he visit japan) and planning to do some cross processing with my near limit 3 bath E6. Maybe you can join us, probably next month when I finish those films in my holder first. Any update, mostly I will post in the E6 thread. (Still hijacking it like our personal thread ;p)

 

[raytoei]

yes. please count me in. perhaps if i can suggest. let's meet at safra at mount faber.

their dark room is available only on weekdays though...(till 9.30pm)

felix eng

 

[kgston]

yes. please count me in. perhaps if i can suggest. let's meet at safra at mount faber.

their dark room is available only on weekdays though...(till 9.30pm)

felix eng

Ooo.. you can manage to borrow their darkroom?? that would be convenient.. haha

 

[wootsk]

I have never attended their darkroom course before, I thought u have to at least attend their B&W film photography course before you can enter their darkroom? I can try, but weekday is a bit hard for me.

 

[Shadowleong]

Can i go and watch? Just wanna kaypo HAHA! Stil cant figure out whats wrong with my b&w development process, best if i can watch? Or ill bring my own film and try at their darkrm

 

[wootsk]

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/threads/759853-E-6-Process/page12

I never join the B&W course and though I am safra member (One of the only good thing about NS), I am not a safra photoclub member. As such, I don't think I or most of us here can enter the place. As such, I am proposing uncle roger place if he doesn't mind, else if you don't mind cramp and isolated location, my place will be at Sembawang
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/threads/112015-SAFRA-darkroom-facilities-enquiries

 

[zk-diq]

may not be in town, therefore will be better at your place.