Bridal Shoot Photo -- Wedding & Courtship Dance

[dDarkroom]

dDarkroom,

Yup, i know what you mean ... maybe a global soft-effect would be good
... appreciate it ! :thumbsup:

BTW, are you in the graphic imaging industry ? ...

No i'm not but almost read up all the photoshop books in our library.

yes, a dreamy look is the right term as ellery put it.

 

[Paul_Yeo]

This is one of the bridal shoot taken in July '06 ...

The pre-wedding day bridal photoshoot session was in Singapore ...
and i hope it provides some inspiring moments ... enjoy.

©2006 Nick Goh Photography | www.nickgoh.com | infor@nickgoh.com

is the object the pair of bride's shoe on the bottom? :embrass:

 

[jOhO]

Oh I see this cat has come out again...

Nick, do you remember our fiasco regarding freelancers vs pros in an FBO thread ages ago? (when i was still "just" a freelancer)

Admittedly, i still hold a grudge against you for that. Not that it affects me much, and definitely not you since you probably have no idea what i'm talking about. that thread is still online and active, should u need the link.

anyway, u seriously need to tone down on "freelancer bashing" altho it's your website and you can write anything you want. (actually on that note, u do bash freelancers on wedding forums too)

I WAS a freelancer, and look where i've come now. I'm not blowing my own horn here, but there is plenty of work I've done which should gain respect from you, but you bashed me at one stage and perhaps even now, as technically i'm still considered a "fulltime freelancer" since a "pro" implies a registered company, a studio and all that jazz which i don't need as i seldom shoot in a studio. That's why i say, there is no need to bash them all, from the pool of TONNES of freelancers, there'll be a few (even alot!) that will surpass you eventually. I am one of them (in my opinion and in plenty of my customers', friends' and fellow photogs' opinions).

I do realise that posting what i have written above is very contentious and that i seem proud and arrogant. but did you know that of all the experiences i had as a "struggling freelancer" trying to hone his craft, YOU did the most detriment with your comments. never have i had a customer, friend, foe, or by-stander bash me the way you have. so my post is to perhaps find "closure" to this nagging thing within me that whenever i see your post or your website (which is seldom anyway) i cringe with almost, hatred. i said almost. i don't hate you Nick, it's not really worth my time and i'm sure we have better things to do than hate other pple.

since i'm at it, i might as well bring to attention the worst phrase i have ever seen from you, taken from your very public website for all to see, and at the annoyance and grudges of all freelancers (many of whom are better than you):

"Invest only in those who are
'Passionate Memory-Makers',
not just Cheap-labour Picture
Shooters or part-time freelancers
/photographers ... For You are
Special, and You deserved
Nothing Less, but those Who
Cares." -- Nick Goh, 2004

Really Nick, that is not only offensive, but misleading to your customers. Think about it.

Just for your thoughts lar, no need to reply me, but i'm VERY sure you will. just know that you have little respect from me, but that's not a big deal.

Good luck to your future endeavours.

p/s: at least we're fellow ex-commandos (i still remember you told me in another thread here in CS), some form of "bonding" there perhaps? lol... sorree for sounding sweet and sour. i feel you really need to know the true feelings of an ex-freelancer from your words.

 

[Deadpoet]

"Over doing it a little?" ... nah, try doing a 'swan lake poses and dance' in men suit and in Wedding Gown, you'll know what i mean ....

In fact, this shot was conceptualised. The location was specially seek-out and choosen, to create that serenity and 'dancing-over-the-lake' feel ... ...

Pretty nice picture, close but ot quite there yet. First of all, the bride and groom may love it, it's an emotional thing, but that does not mean the picture got it.

Technically, I feel the image is too tightly cropped, especially from the vantage point you are shooting from. Maybe the real background is not so nice and need to be "eliminated".

The bride looked ok, but the groom looked stiff.

I have some problems with the bouquet, it is definately an integral part of the image, but somehow, how it was presented, the look and size of the bouquet, just did not wor for me.

However, the one thing I really have problems with is the location, which was "specially seek-out and choosen, to create that serenity and "dancing-over-the-lake' feel". How did a slab of concrete show the feeling of serenity? Granted, there is this supposed to be body of water inteh background, but "dancing-over-the-lake", I don't feel it.

The light wind you mentioned probably helped, but the overcast, just over did it, made the picture very flat, in another word, boring.

Overall, probably, the couple was happy, that is important, but ...

 

[knoxknocks]

...
Second, i believe that the articles that i wrote, in anywhere did i mentioned about the relevance or meaning :

"Freelance Photogs = Poor Quality Work" or " Pro Photogs = High Quality works"

There is NO co-relationship between Freelance Photogs and their outputs, nor Pro Photogs equals to Higher Quality outputs, etc. You must have been mistaken or under the wrong impression on such interpretation. :nono:

+

"Invest only in those who are
'Passionate Memory-Makers',
not just Cheap-labour Picture
Shooters or part-time freelancers
/photographers ... For You are
Special, and You deserved
Nothing Less, but those Who
Cares." -- Nick Goh, 2004

Hi Nick,

Don't these 2 statements contradict each other?

What's the difference between "memory-makers" and "cheap-labour picture shooters or partime freelancers/photographers" - Quality? Ability to capture the moments? One who "cares"? Does that mean that freelancers don't care, or for that matter, will give less than 100% each wedding day? Sure, there are bad sheeps amongst freelancers but isn't this sterotyping it a little?

C'mon, come straight to the point. If you don't like freelancers or having freelancers in the market, so be it. None of us can control what you say to your clients-to-be in a sales pitch, but end of the day, there are business ethics - whether you're a pro or a freelancer. IF you feel that be-littling freelancers to get a leg up in your sales works for you, then that's your real loss.

just my "cheap-labour picture shooter/partime freelancer's" 2cts worth.

ps: sorry for the OT, I'm still looking at your picture to comment

 

[shinken]

Plus: Bride's pose is natural and beautiful; Location was well chosen
Minuses:
Blur didn't work at all. Was it meant to impress motion? It killed the grace of the bride, and meaningless on the groom.
The tonal conversion didn't take into account of details at all. Shadow details are missing. It's forgivable as a candid, defintiely not as a staged shot.
Groom's pose is not in sync with the brides. The "distribution" of the pic is not good.

But if it works for the couple, then all is good That's the most important. Some of us work at marketing, some at packaging, some at sales pitch, some at skills. To each his (or her) own.

 

[knoxknocks]

i find that the pose of the bride is graceful and beautiful :thumbsup:

I don't really have the feeling of the serenity of the lake - maybe because the water body is too small?

As shinken mentioned, I also don't think the blur works very well. The bride's shoes are also a bit distracting

 

[fotoudavid]

blue effect don't work, the groom very funny in that pose, the rest still ok lah.

no gd or bad photographers in wedding, only couple like u or not which is important, u can be no.1, but couple don't like u means u are last in the class.

 

[Enchanted]

Oh I see this cat has come out again...

Nick, do you remember our fiasco regarding freelancers vs pros in an FBO thread ages ago? (when i was still "just" a freelancer)

Admittedly, i still hold a grudge against you for that. Not that it affects me much, and definitely not you since you probably have no idea what i'm talking about. that thread is still online and active, should u need the link.

anyway, u seriously need to tone down on "freelancer bashing" altho it's your website and you can write anything you want. (actually on that note, u do bash freelancers on wedding forums too)

I WAS a freelancer, and look where i've come now. I'm not blowing my own horn here, but there is plenty of work I've done which should gain respect from you, but you bashed me at one stage and perhaps even now, as technically i'm still considered a "fulltime freelancer" since a "pro" implies a registered company, a studio and all that jazz which i don't need as i seldom shoot in a studio. That's why i say, there is no need to bash them all, from the pool of TONNES of freelancers, there'll be a few (even alot!) that will surpass you eventually. I am one of them (in my opinion and in plenty of my customers', friends' and fellow photogs' opinions).

I do realise that posting what i have written above is very contentious and that i seem proud and arrogant. but did you know that of all the experiences i had as a "struggling freelancer" trying to hone his craft, YOU did the most detriment with your comments. never have i had a customer, friend, foe, or by-stander bash me the way you have. so my post is to perhaps find "closure" to this nagging thing within me that whenever i see your post or your website (which is seldom anyway) i cringe with almost, hatred. i said almost. i don't hate you Nick, it's not really worth my time and i'm sure we have better things to do than hate other pple.

since i'm at it, i might as well bring to attention the worst phrase i have ever seen from you, taken from your very public website for all to see, and at the annoyance and grudges of all freelancers (many of whom are better than you):

"Invest only in those who are
'Passionate Memory-Makers',
not just Cheap-labour Picture
Shooters or part-time freelancers
/photographers ... For You are
Special, and You deserved
Nothing Less, but those Who
Cares." -- Nick Goh, 2004

Really Nick, that is not only offensive, but misleading to your customers. Think about it.

Just for your thoughts lar, no need to reply me, but i'm VERY sure you will. just know that you have little respect from me, but that's not a big deal.

Good luck to your future endeavours.

p/s: at least we're fellow ex-commandos (i still remember you told me in another thread here in CS), some form of "bonding" there perhaps? lol... sorree for sounding sweet and sour. i feel you really need to know the true feelings of an ex-freelancer from your words.

jOhO,

I know exactly what you are referring to, and knew what you had felt back then and now.

I still stand on what i wrote back then and i believe there are tonnes of "Freelancers" may have had taken that at a personal level and a big Issue in their life, and "seek revenge" whatever opportunities arises, like "singing a wrong sad tune here, while it was playing a happy song in the air"...

Perosnally i have nothing against you, nor really affected by those words that you have had written back then, because "when one is a child he speaks like a child, when he is an adult he will rationalised as an adult". Look at you now, your works have much improved and maintained a standard of your own -- looking back, don't you think those 'Negative Feelings' and internal struggles have help you be a better person and a photographer ? If yes, then kudos to you, for you have Overcome and learn to accept what can be change and what cannot be change.

Again, whether you, your friends your buddies, see your works and photo skill are better than others or mine, that's not important ... strange but true, i am happy for you, for i think singapore will have another wedding talent to boot, and uphold the standard and professionlism in the industry. Ultimately, my vision and hope is to see an overall better condition and respect for the wedding Pros and those freelancers doing and going full-time. If you have gone thru the years of '90s as a Wedding day photographer, you'll know the stigma and condition back then ( i'll let those other old birds to say their tune here ).

Personally i see Wedding Pros ( and those Wedding Full-time Freelancers ) as Brother-in-Arms, for they are a fighting and surviving lots -- i have more respect for full-time serving Soldiers who did their time, than those making a quick kill (buck) weekends part-time Soldiers taking pot shots, and pretending they are Old Pros, talking as though they are shooting a million dollar wedding.

Sure, we may be have differences, ideas and believes, but as long as you have come to full swing into this line, and play by the rules, then i'll salute you and "watch your back" when the battle starts.

It doesn't really matter whether there are tonnes of Freelancers ( part-timers ) are better than me, in terms of Photo skills and imaging or subject knowlegde or even selling skills ... It's not for me to judge but Let the market decides.
( If these Freelancers are that good, i sincerely welcome them to the fold, and become the needed talents that our industry lacks -- wedding professionlism and carrer professionals ). Let the real battle ground prove their worth ... not words exchange and big talks.

Thank you and i'm appreciative for sharing your honest thoughts and perspective.

Nick Goh

P/S : I'll always have high regards for those have served in the Commando Units, as they say "Once a Comanndo, always a Commando" ... If you are one, i'll respect you for that.

 

[Enchanted]

Pretty nice picture, close but ot quite there yet. First of all, the bride and groom may love it, it's an emotional thing, but that does not mean the picture got it.

Technically, I feel the image is too tightly cropped, especially from the vantage point you are shooting from. Maybe the real background is not so nice and need to be "eliminated".

The bride looked ok, but the groom looked stiff.

I have some problems with the bouquet, it is definately an integral part of the image, but somehow, how it was presented, the look and size of the bouquet, just did not wor for me.

However, the one thing I really have problems with is the location, which was "specially seek-out and choosen, to create that serenity and "dancing-over-the-lake' feel". How did a slab of concrete show the feeling of serenity? Granted, there is this supposed to be body of water inteh background, but "dancing-over-the-lake", I don't feel it.

The light wind you mentioned probably helped, but the overcast, just over did it, made the picture very flat, in another word, boring.

Overall, probably, the couple was happy, that is important, but ...

Deadpoet,

thank you for your pointers ... will look into it.

 

[Enchanted]

+

"Invest only in those who are
'Passionate Memory-Makers',
not just Cheap-labour Picture
Shooters or part-time freelancers
/photographers ... For You are
Special, and You deserved
Nothing Less, but those Who
Cares." -- Nick Goh, 2004

Hi Nick,

Don't these 2 statements contradict each other?

What's the difference between "memory-makers" and "cheap-labour picture shooters or partime freelancers/photographers" - Quality? Ability to capture the moments? One who "cares"? Does that mean that freelancers don't care, or for that matter, will give less than 100% each wedding day? Sure, there are bad sheeps amongst freelancers but isn't this sterotyping it a little?

C'mon, come straight to the point. If you don't like freelancers or having freelancers in the market, so be it. None of us can control what you say to your clients-to-be in a sales pitch, but end of the day, there are business ethics - whether you're a pro or a freelancer. IF you feel that be-littling freelancers to get a leg up in your sales works for you, then that's your real loss.

just my "cheap-labour picture shooter/partime freelancer's" 2cts worth.

ps: sorry for the OT, I'm still looking at your picture to comment

knoxknocks,

Thank you for taking time for writing your say ...

Interpretation ? -- to each his own.

( I am not putting down anyone, but if you are affected by what you read, then you got to 'overcome' it ... my only solution for you or any part-time freelancers is -- Join the Ranks, play by the Rules, and I welcome you with open arms -- at your own time, or when you are ready ..., but in the meantime, the market will still jugde you, not me ).

The turth is i am not really affected. Why, becos those Wedding Customers who are looking for Cheap Photogs will never be knocking at the doors of the Pros ( for their Prices are Transparent, and on the Website for public scrutiny ). But those who are willing to pay a premuim, peace-of-mind and 'face' value may be of their paramount concern, than pics quality or '1 to 2 hundreds off the package price' deals.

... I maybe wrong, but i am willing to face the it.

 

[Enchanted]

i find that the pose of the bride is graceful and beautiful :thumbsup:

I don't really have the feeling of the serenity of the lake - maybe because the water body is too small?

As shinken mentioned, I also don't think the blur works very well. The bride's shoes are also a bit distracting

knoxknocks,

The pointers highlighted are good and highly constructive ....

About Noise and Signals -- i think you are one signal that rings ... thank u.

 

[Enchanted]

Plus: Bride's pose is natural and beautiful; Location was well chosen
Minuses:
Blur didn't work at all. Was it meant to impress motion? It killed the grace of the bride, and meaningless on the groom.
The tonal conversion didn't take into account of details at all. Shadow details are missing. It's forgivable as a candid, defintiely not as a staged shot.
Groom's pose is not in sync with the brides. The "distribution" of the pic is not good.

But if it works for the couple, then all is good That's the most important. Some of us work at marketing, some at packaging, some at sales pitch, some at skills. To each his (or her) own.

shinken,

Thank you.

 

[Enchanted]

blue effect don't work, the groom very funny in that pose, the rest still ok lah.

no gd or bad photographers in wedding, only couple like u or not which is important, u can be no.1, but couple don't like u means u are last in the class.

smurfman,

Got your point ... thks.

Yes, you are right in saying that "no gd or bad photographers in wedding, only couple like u or not which is important" ...

Like i've mentioned may times in this thread, it is not WE - the photogs, friends, buddies that decides we are marketable or selling like hot cakes, BUT the MARKET - the wedding clients and vendors.

Hahahah haha ... :bsmilie:

 

[TrailsofLife]

I've read nick's website. I think what he is trying to differentiate is those who shoot with passion, with his/her heart, thats willing to bend their back for a special moment with those who just treat it as a job, and make quick bucks during their weekend.


OT abit....

Joho and Nich Goh are ex-commando! Wow!
Me too....

 

[jOhO]

Hi Nick

jOhO,
I know exactly what you are referring to, and knew what you had felt back then and now.

I still stand on what i wrote back then and i believe there are tonnes of "Freelancers" may have had taken that at a personal level and a big Issue in their life, and "seek revenge" whatever opportunities arises, like "singing a wrong sad tune here, while it was playing a happy song in the air"...

How not to take it personally? Anyway, revenge is not what I seek, and i'll assume here that you're not referring to me.

Perosnally i have nothing against you, nor really affected by those words that you have had written back then, because "when one is a child he speaks like a child, when he is an adult he will rationalised as an adult". Look at you now, your works have much improved and maintained a standard of your own -- looking back, don't you think those 'Negative Feelings' and internal struggles have help you be a better person and a photographer ? If yes, then kudos to you, for you have Overcome and learn to accept what can be change and what cannot be change.

Figuratively, I was that child, i agree, but not all children needs to be treated with contempt and disdain just because you've done your rites of passage and have become an adult. I strongly believe that you have real passion for your work, and for the general wedding community and standards in Singapore, but i don't see how your words back then, and probably even now, helps to improve the standards of image quality and professionalism. do you mean to say, "if i bash freelancers enuff, the crap ones will leave, and only the good ones stay, and hence the industry will be uplifted?" i sure hope that's not what u're thinking, because we all already know, the crap WILL leave, no matter whether you are nice or nasty to them. why make an extra enemy?

Thanx for your kudos, yes i have come far and will go further. at least i intend to.

Again, whether you, your friends your buddies, see your works and photo skill are better than others or mine, that's not important ... strange but true, i am happy for you, for i think singapore will have another wedding talent to boot, and uphold the standard and professionlism in the industry. Ultimately, my vision and hope is to see an overall better condition and respect for the wedding Pros and those freelancers doing and going full-time. If you have gone thru the years of '90s as a Wedding day photographer, you'll know the stigma and condition back then ( i'll let those other old birds to say their tune here ).

Somehow, i believe that you are truly happy for me, but unfortunately i also feel that it's because i'm not a freelancer anymore. it might interest you to think that while my images are better now than when i first started out, the passion, interest and professionalism is still the same.

Personally i see Wedding Pros ( and those Wedding Full-time Freelancers ) as Brother-in-Arms, for they are a fighting and surviving lots -- i have more respect for full-time serving Soldiers who did their time, than those making a quick kill (buck) weekends part-time Soldiers taking pot shots, and pretending they are Old Pros, talking as though they are shooting a million dollar wedding.

There are certainly bad eggs everywhere. however, you do not need to use a machine gun and fire everyone in a "ning ke sha chuo bu ke fang guo" manner. of course, i feel the same way, we're all comrades-in-arms, but when i was a freelancer i was your foe, now that i'm fulltime, suddenly you love me and i love u back? just because i decided to go full time and changed my "designation", when nothing else really changed? Also, i need to remind you that you are MISLEADING customers by saying (all) freelancers are not professional and that their day should be captured by pple who are more trust worthy etc etc. THAT, Nick, is misleading and is sales talk. We don't need to put people down to bring ourselves up. You of all people should know that, or perhaps is that what they did in the 90s'? you're right, i have no idea back then.

Sure, we may be have differences, ideas and believes, but as long as you have come to full swing into this line, and play by the rules, then i'll salute you and "watch your back" when the battle starts.

well since we're both full timers now, i guess we're on the "same side". perhaps my thoughs in this thread are to voice CURRENT freelancers who might be feeling the same way about you as i did back then. this is not about me and the wedding industry. this is to let you know about the feathers you are ruffling, esp in the "children" who will eventually lead the industry when you retire. perhaps you really think that the "hard cane" will train these children well, and there you have an opinion that you're entitled to. i will just ask you to think about it, not change yourself. thanx for watching my back though.

It doesn't really matter whether there are tonnes of Freelancers ( part-timers ) are better than me, in terms of Photo skills and imaging or subject knowlegde or even selling skills ... It's not for me to judge but Let the market decides.
( If these Freelancers are that good, i sincerely welcome them to the fold, and become the needed talents that our industry lacks -- wedding professionlism and carrer professionals ). Let the real battle ground prove their worth ... not words exchange and big talks.

indeed, the market will decide who's good and who's not, but sincerely, i don't suggest you put them (freelancers) down in your website and other wedding forums. it honestly doesn't reflect very professionally on you. let me list out in point form why i feel your public bashing of freelancers is WRONG. my opinions entirely:

1. putting down other pple to bring yourself up, seemingly. that's bad for your rep.
2. instead of making an extra enemy, why not make an extra friend, or at least stay neutral, unless you like enemies?
3. misleading customers: it is NOT true that (all) freelancers don't care / don't have passion / not professional / produce bad quality / unreliable.

Thank you and i'm appreciative for sharing your honest thoughts and perspective.

Nick Goh

P/S : I'll always have high regards for those have served in the Commando Units, as they say "Once a Comanndo, always a Commando" ... If you are one, i'll respect you for that.

You're welcome for my comments. i thought it died and i never needed to bring it up, but i guess the opportunity arose and here i go. As you have said, you have nothing against me, likewise, i (at least now) have let it pass and don't hold anything against you. perhaps u would want to rethink seriously about how you view, and express your thoughts on freelancers in general. you seriously did step on my toes back then, and you now (and/or then) knew that. it's offensive you know, like telling a customer "freelancers suck (jOhO included), so don't engage him". OF COURSE, you did not say that literally anywhere (i sure hope not!) but figurative and impliedly, that's what you are saying.

yes i am an ex-commando, your junior, from the new camp (1994 - 1996). i know you're from the old camp which is siong one. perhaps that is also one reason for your drive and passion, and undying stubborness, and perhaps even arrogance. also, i like how you are man enuff to take my comments, after all i am definitely much less experienced than you and prob have stuff to learn from you. however, THIS TOPIC of freelancers is something i despise about you from day one. thank you for taking my comments the positive way.

ok lar, enuff of this, take care man.

 

[Enchanted]

I've read nick's website. I think what he is trying to differentiate is those who shoot with passion, with his/her heart, thats willing to bend their back for a special moment with those who just treat it as a job, and make quick bucks during their weekend.


OT abit....

Joho and Nich Goh are ex-commando! Wow!
Me too....

Hi Max,

Let me put it in another analogy .... In a half Glass of Water, does One see Half Full or Half Empty ?...

Many times it is what's the mind wanted to see and NOT the Real Eyes saw ...

Anyway, if "Transitionals" or serious Part-timers are thinking about going into full-time, and he is willing to face the reality of the "The Art and Business of Wedding Photography and Trade", then he should be welcome and given the opportunity and the Pros should be gladly showing him the rope.... Why, becos it is for the betterment of the industry as a whole.

- - - -

OT Talk:

I see you are One of the Red Berets and Silver Wings too ! ... hahahaha ... :thumbsup:

Well, still remember your "Hit-it ! -- One thousand, two thousand... three thousand --- check !!

- - - -

 

[TrailsofLife]

Joho, you can't be from 94 to 96... I was there too...94 to 96. 4th Coy. I dun remember you?

 

[TrailsofLife]

Hi Max,

Let me put it in another analogy .... In a half Glass of Water, does One see Half Full or Half Empty ?...

Many times it is what's the mind wanted to see and NOT the Real Eyes saw ...

Anyway, if "Transitionals" or serious Part-timers are thinking about going into full-time, and he is willing to face the reality of the "The Art and Business of Wedding Photography and Trade", then he should be welcome and given the opportunity and the Pros should be gladly showing him the rope.... Why, becos it is for the betterment of the industry as a whole.

- - - -

OT Talk:

I see you are One of the Red Berets and Silver Wings too ! ... hahahaha ... :thumbsup:

Well, still remember your "Hit-it ! -- One thousand, two thousand... three thousand --- check !!

- - - -

I dun understand what you meant? Too cheam....

OT:
Yep, I am! but a lousy and notorious one. Almost got charged twice for compromising a mission and for fighting with my platoon sergernt(regular, si pay how lian). I am those few who have done almost all punishments except being charged.

 

[Tsangstudios]

I dun understand what you meant? Too cheam....

OT:
Yep, I am! but a lousy and notorious one. Almost got charged twice for compromising a mission and for fighting with my platoon sergernt(regular, si pay how lian). I am those few who have done almost all punishments except being charged.

Sure or not you cant remember side right, side left and the rest of the hit it stuff.. Kenna zillions of it on tarmac until uniform also tear and or cheh everywere. Fighting with platoon sargent some more kowtow, when I see my platoon sargent I pee in my pants heh heh...