Brass lens for Large format 4x5, 5x7, 8x10

[Verticoastro]

Dear all,

I went for one of the large format outing at botanical garden and I was inspired by one of the large format shooter who uses those 1800s-1900s brass lens.

Was planning to use it on my current Shenhao PTB45. I saw lot of brass lens on eBay and stuffs but not sure which is suitable for 4x5 format.

I looking at something around 90mm, 150mm to 200mm focal length... Most likely for landscape and bit of portrait.

I understand some do not have shutters and some uses the air bulb to open the shutter...

 

[lkkang]

I believe you are talking about me...

sorry for the poison spread ... :devil:

The lens that you saw that morning , is a "copy" Petzval lens.
meaning, the construction of this lens was copied from some branded manufacturer. The lens itself does not carry any brand at all.
There are 3 elements in the lens , and you can interchange their position to create different effects.

The focal length is 8.5" ( about 210mm )
aperture is F/3.7
nothing is written there, you just have to measure all the parameters yourself.

you are right, most Petzval lens does not comes with shutter. I am using lens cap as the shutter itself.
Some Petzval lens comes with "water house", which means , you can insert a card with a hole into the slot to reduce the aperture.
By doing so, the image has longer DOF.

as you can see above, my lens does not comes with a flange, and I have to improvise something to mount the lens onto the lens board.

as per the image coverage, I am not so sure on this.... someone please correct me if I am wrong.
The image circle coverage is equals to the focal length itself ( for a Petzval construction lens ).

My Petzval is 8.5" and hence the focal length is 210mm
The image circle is also about 210mm ( which means, it will cover 5x7 )

This is purely calculation only, should you tries to push the lens to the limit, then the edges of the image will start to turn "Spiral" ..
some like it.. some don't...



finally, here is the picture I took with you that morning ( using this Petzval lens )
aperture wide open, about 1/30 seconds ( lens cap shutter )

Zone VI camera
Petzval 8.5" F/3.7 ( shot wide open )
D76 1:1 dilution, 20C 12 minutes.
5x7 Shanghai 100
EPSON V700 scanned.


if I am not wrong, there are some more people in this LF section that carries Petzval lens also...
and the images are just fantastic...

cheers,
Billy

 

[lkkang]

if you see something like this spiral effect.. it must be a Petzval...

 

[lkkang]

Petzval on portraits
( stopped down to F8 )

 

[paapoopa]

I am using a around 6.5 inch f4 petzval lens (no brand one)
so that is also close to 150mm.
I dont know much about the technical aspect, for me I bought this lens simply for the swirl effect. but because I am using it on a speed graphic I can use the focal plane shutter instead.

this is taken recently in botanic gardens as well

 

[zguy]

this thread on the chinese forum is interesting
Petzval

the first post actually show the adaptors they have made so that the brass lens can fit into a modern shutter.

 

[lkkang]

color shot from Petzval lens...

 

[sweat100]

Verticoastro, you mentioned you like to use mainly for landscapes? Perhaps you would want to consider the brass rapid rectilinear design instead. This is because in the past they optimise the design for landscapes while petzval is more for portraits. However there is no hard and fast rule.

Currently, I am using the Darlot 10.5" (~267mm) f4 lantern lens for my 8x10. The image circle is too small for 8x10 at infinity, so I use this lens for portraits mainly. So 4x5 you may need some that is like 210mm or more for enough image circle. I mounted a packard shutter onto a DIY shutter holder. Since the Packard shutter is either bulb or 1/25 shutter speed and aperture is fixed for the Darlot at f4. So I added a filter ring in front which I can put ND filters when I am shooting outdoors. Below are a few pictures to show how it is mounted and the output from the lens. Honestly, I have not mastered the lens yet to produce those amazing swirl.

*You can see I ran out of image circle as I did a lens rise. Did not notice that.

 

[Verticoastro]

interesting, I would like to use it on mainly landscape and a little bit of portrait , will use the original setting as much as possible. am looking at evilbay for a affordable 100-200USD

 

[RubbishBin1987]

interesting, I would like to use it on mainly landscape and a little bit of portrait , will use the original setting as much as possible. am looking at evilbay for a affordable 100-200USD

If you mean 4x5 landscape, i assume that you are looking for lens below 135mm. My suggestion is that rather than gambling on unknown lantern lens or brass lens with while having personally lack of experience along with unrealiable or not understandable source of knowledge to verify the lens performance and characteristic, it will be better to start with an apo process lens in that price range. Just a suggestion as most apo process lens are used in reproduction, so you can expect low distortion and certain decent level of lpmm for you B&W negatives.

Known performing brass lens will not easily come in 100-200usd without a catch mostly unless it is an "unknown" item.

Source: I have banged much in this area of the wall to tell the tales.:mad2:

 

[Verticoastro]

If you mean 4x5 landscape, i assume that you are looking for lens below 135mm. My suggestion is that rather than gambling on unknown lantern lens or brass lens with while having personally lack of experience along with unrealiable or not understandable source of knowledge to verify the lens performance and characteristic, it will be better to start with an apo process lens in that price range. Just a suggestion as most apo process lens are used in reproduction, so you can expect low distortion and certain decent level of lpmm for you B&W negatives.

Known performing brass lens will not easily come in 100-200usd without a catch mostly unless it is an "unknown" item.

Source: I have banged much in this area of the wall to tell the tales.:mad2:

Ok, I will heel your advice...

 

[RubbishBin1987]

Ok, I will heel your advice...

On note, if you are using a 150mm, you will need 300mm on the bellow for 1:1. Do care the bellow factor for light loss then doing the exposure as well.

For those who wonder what is apochromatic in apo and why lens like apo ronar, apo nikor etc are called reproduction lens.

Apochromat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Note: ps, i don't visit cs often nowadays. So late in replies in old threads.

 

[lkkang]

Recently found out that I am able to mount my Petzval onto a No.5 universal shutter.
That gives me an advantage of an accurate and faster shutter speed ( good for portraits ).

My Petzval onto Kodak No.5 SYNCHRO SHUTTER.

A simple portrait of Yuan Yi.

Tachihara 8×10 camera,
8×10 ShangHai 100,
Petzval 8″ lens, F5.6 1/2sec ( on No.5 universal shutter )
natural light.
D76 1:1 dilution, 12mins

Billy

 

[keechoon]

Got myself a 6" f4 nameless projection lens for 4x5 and have been playing around with different focusing distances. Can't really get the swirls although its the same design as Petzval leh.

My sister, the unwilling model whenever I try out new stuff

6" f4 projection brass lens
Chamonix 045-F1
Shanghai 100
Rodinal 1:100 stand development.
(pardon the scratches, too excited to develop to see the results)

 

[zguy]

Maybe can try a background that is further or a bigger format like 5x7 camera. Otherwise forget abt the swirls and use it as a goold old portrait lens-sharp in center with shallow DOF.