BnS deal or no deal?

[neubdetat]

or you can make that $10 small claims at the sub courts. Just make sure you have evidence; even oral evidence can suffice, though it's better if you have smses or email correspondence to back you up.

I don't know if it applies here, but it should be that you will have to minimise your loss, that is, buy the lens from someone else, before you can make the small claim.

The court will then try to put you in the position you would have been if the seller did not renege on the deal, so if you paid more from another seller, you get damages to cover that additional expense.

I doubt you can expect to just freely walk into court and ask for the whole $1-5k.

 

[vince123123]

Hehe, sounds so much like a general business law lecture.

I don't think anyone here is asking the court for the full price of the lens lah

or you can make that $10 small claims at the sub courts. Just make sure you have evidence; even oral evidence can suffice, though it's better if you have smses or email correspondence to back you up.

I don't know if it applies here, but it should be that you will have to minimise your loss, that is, buy the lens from someone else, before you can make the small claim.

The court will then try to put you in the position you would have been if the seller did not renege on the deal, so if you paid more from another seller, you get damages to cover that additional expense.

I doubt you can expect to just freely walk into court and ask for the whole $1-5k.

 

[waderbreak]

I totally FEEL for the TS. People sometimes really lack principle. This actually happened during the price hike for canon. I was testing out a set over 2 days, and really wanted to make payment on the 2nd day (however, I had no cash, so I asked the fella if he wanted to accept a cash check or wait till I could draw out the cash to pay) and he said ok. Then, the thing which pissed me off was that when he heard the news for the price hike, he sms me say he 'reconsidering' whethher to alter the price according to the market when we previously agreed on a quoted price. Best thing was, after he decided on his move, he was 'willing' to sell me the set if I could top up $50 bucks.

C'mon right, all the effort just for $50 bucks. I was quite dissed cuz it wasn't about the extra money (which I could have forked out like much more), rather, the integrity. I think what makes CS a decent place for 2nd hand market is that there is a general level of 'trust', taken with a pinch of salt. But, I agree with everyone, it shouldn't be just simply 'that's how it works...so bo pian. Must have at least some integrity.

So, anyway what's best is to just forget all the nonsense and look forward to other possible opportunities.

 

[clioboy]

just got two buyers flew plane on me..

one lost his wallet ..wanna cut loss :bsmilie:

one suddenly decide that FE is too "advanced" for him :bsmilie:

all after affriming prices. That is life. Wat a waste of my time and smses.

Just my luck then.

 

[pat33]

In some of the other forums, BnS section is only open to members who have been a member for a certain period of time or had chalk up a certain number of posts. This sort of prevent people from instantly creating new or multiple new accounts and posting on the BnS section or create false market interest as montioned by previous posts hence protecting members. I am actually quite amazed at the number of postings in the BnS forum started by new members with their first post at clubsnap. Some control on this will be good.

 

[darshan4eos]

Hi guys
I also experienced the same three times (still looking for a kit lens). once wanted to sell my BG, in night buyer decided the time for next morning @ 11AM (XXXX1312) but at 9.30 AM got a sms that the price is on higer side and called off the deal. and now I ask one person to reserve his kit lens at his asking price and he agreed. (XXXX4896).but next day he say that he is going to a camp and cant do the deal...hehehe
But the best one was a guy (XXXX1638)..he finalised the deal to buy the same BG and decided the time and place but when while leaving from my place i tried calling him, he didnt even bother to pick the call and dint reply the SMS...
But its OK...cant do anything about it...

 

[Dream Merchant]

Why are you all helping and hiding the inconsiderate, dishonest and those who simply don't give a damn about basic courtesy, integrity or principle?

Since you know so-and-so is guilty of such acts (assuming you have the facts correct), helping to hide their identities from CS members is as good as helping them do their dirty deeds! You're all helping them to get away and carry of their dispicable behavior to other CS members as perhaps even other forums!

 

[vince123123]

I think these people are just afraid to stand up for what they believe in. Don't know why they are afraid of naming them.

 

[lichtleiter]

In some of the other forums, BnS section is only open to members who have been a member for a certain period of time or had chalk up a certain number of posts. This sort of prevent people from instantly creating new or multiple new accounts and posting on the BnS section or create false market interest as montioned by previous posts hence protecting members. I am actually quite amazed at the number of postings in the BnS forum started by new members with their first post at clubsnap. Some control on this will be good.

The two unethical sellers that I have dealt have "0" posts. That's why I agree to your proposition of requiring the CS members to sell their items at the BnS section ONLY if they have become a member for a period of time. NAMING these "0" posters may not help as we would not be dealing with them in the future.

 

[cyquek]

Why are you all helping and hiding the inconsiderate, dishonest and those who simply don't give a damn about basic courtesy, integrity or principle?

Since you know so-and-so is guilty of such acts (assuming you have the facts correct), helping to hide their identities from CS members is as good as helping them do their dirty deeds! You're all helping them to get away and carry of their dispicable behavior to other CS members as perhaps even other forums!

Personally, if we were to just list the names out, the thread is going to get lost. People may not be doing so because they are not sure where to post it and mods and admin has not specifically announced its right to do so.

My suggestion is, since we have given so many different ideas from banning new comers from selling to creating ebay style BnS, why not try the following method which is simple and fast provided mods are agreeable and its simply to create 2 threads

1) Good Guy List
2) Not Good Guy List

The thread can be sticky onto main BNS so people can refer to it.

 

[vince123123]

There are loopholes and fallacies innaming people, but if people are not goign to name them, it makes no difference discussing these fallacies. Start naming first, then if we find that they are 0 posters, then we next go on to lobbying for a minimum qualification before posting on BnS. The thing is that without naming, having the rest will not help at all. The first hurdle to cross is getting the people's mindset's adjusted.

 

[maddyks]

And how can you trust the list? what if the guy is lying?

Anyway having this list is not that good unless the attitude here changes. As my good friend, Dream Merchant, has said enough on this on the soapbox, I'm gonna pass

But as long as there is someone else who wants it, these kind of seller incidents will occur. It will take a huge change in attitude before CS becomes a utopia for BnS.

Sorry for the rambling.

 

[vince123123]

It is suggested that the person being accused, be informed by pm or otherwise, to have a chance to refute the allegations.

To not even have a attitude of naming, anything will fail. Imagine people dont want to report a crime to the cops, whatever system you put in place, will fail.

And how can you trust the list? what if the guy is lying?

Anyway having this list is not that good unless the attitude here changes. As my good friend, Dream Merchant, has said enough on this on the soapbox, I'm gonna pass

But as long as there is someone else who wants it, these kind of seller incidents will occur. It will take a huge change in attitude before CS becomes a utopia for BnS.

Sorry for the rambling.

 

[maddyks]

It is suggested that the person being accused, be informed by pm or otherwise, to have a chance to refute the allegations.

To not even have a attitude of naming, anything will fail. Imagine people dont want to report a crime to the cops, whatever system you put in place, will fail.

Yea I agree to that but its also a system of trust. When two people say different things, you shall go with the person you trust more unless proved otherwise. Some people don't even see the proof. :dunno:

Its about having an attitude change and transparency in the system. All bids on web in front of your eyes, no bids by 0 post people unless they have someone (other than the seller of course) vouching for them and people respecting a fair market enough to not have underhand dealings. Whistle blowing is not gonna solve anything. It only helps when the issue is unknown. This issue has been around for ages but all we can do is say "It happens".

 

[Deadpoet]

CS Buy Sell forum is merely a venue for classified ads.

Should CS be responsible to police how advertisers and buyers behave?

NO.

That said, if the one complaining is not willing to name names, and have the evidence to back up the claim/complaint, then, all said and done, the thread/post is merely an avenue for the complainer to BITCH.

 

[antacid]

instead of a blacklist, why not a whitelist?

just post good feedback. in that way, i can sell my stuff for a little higher, and say, "look, i've got a good reputation, you're not dealing with some fly by night fella."

similarly, a buyer can say that he has good feedback, and can ask for a little discount because this is definitely going to go through and no last minute disappearing act.

i'm sure no one is going to complain and turn the thread into an immature online argument because he was given compliments?
((=

the absence of good feedback for a seller can be an indication as well..with the exception that it's the seller's first time selling. but as the japanese say, shigatanai *shrug*

 

[Simon_84]

I'm a victim too recently happen few days ago. I called the guy and he agreed wif me verbally tat he will reserved for me. Few mins ltr, he sms me tat somebody offer a good price, and says 'sorry'. Does apology helps? I was so keen and happy at that moment and it drops dead after awhile.

I juz feel ;(

If seller is not very sure abt the selling price, juz put to auction. Juz mention tat the items are open for auction. I know it hard to keep track for bidding so i suggest the following to the creator of this forum.

Shall this forum offer an auction thread to include necessary interfaces to ease the seller for putting up their items for auction? Makes easier for them to keep track and us buyer can see and react fast to the bidding.

agreeing verbally is not a very strong confirmation, always have black and white such as sms or pm to support your case.
so far i only deal via sms or pm.
if you're sad about the deal then offer a higher price in the 1st place in order not to be disappointed.

 

[akdwivedi]

instead of a blacklist, why not a whitelist?

just post good feedback. in that way, i can sell my stuff for a little higher, and say, "look, i've got a good reputation, you're not dealing with some fly by night fella."

similarly, a buyer can say that he has good feedback, and can ask for a little discount because this is definitely going to go through and no last minute disappearing act.

i'm sure no one is going to complain and turn the thread into an immature online argument because he was given compliments?
((=

the absence of good feedback for a seller can be an indication as well..with the exception that it's the seller's first time selling. but as the japanese say, shigatanai *shrug*

I agree with this feedback system like we have on ebay.. the buyer/seller can first check each other feedbacks before trading. the buyer/seller can also specify that only ppl with minimum of 10good feedbacks and no bad feedbacks in last 6 months can bid.

I also feel that CS is just a classifieds place, it would be difficult to put all the policing.

Having said that, we need to cultivate a good civic culture where ppl honor their words.

 

[tortise]

hmm, while i understand the frustrations with buyers or sellers flying aeroplane or being unethical, i think we all come into BnS to transact with the understanding that this is not going to be as simple as buying an item as advertised from a shop. As sellers, we undertake our own advertising and evaluation of offers, and as buyers we undertake our own research and decisions. The risks and possible problems are all part of what we have to take into account when engaging on the forum.

However, i don't agree with limiting members with many posts or good feedback to the BnS.

I take myself for an example, I come into CS to learn from people (asked questions on 2nd hand camera to get and UWA, look at all the inspiring work in landscapes and portraits and other galleries, photoshop techniques etc), research info (on product feedback like lenses and tripods), photo techniques (learn basics of photography, use of filters, composition rules etc), buy through the MOs (already bought remote, batteries, diffusers, gaffer tape), buy 2nd hand lenses (got a wonderful sigma 10-20mm). And I don't post alot while doing all these things above. Guess i'm not one to comment/interact alot in mainly as i still feel shy and noobie, but that shouldn't disqualify me from participating in the benefits of the forum like BnS? And number of posts shouldn't determine one's reputation. (else we will see a surge in one-liner comments in the galleries, as well as alot of kopitiam banter and msn style posts. Don't get me wrong, I think these are perfectly fine too, afterall we're here to make friends have fun and enjoy our hobby) How does someone like me who thinks so hard before buying anything and only sells things once in a blue moon gather the good feedback needed for that one important sale?

I'm meeting a buyer tonight for my minty Manfrotto 190Xprob that i decided to sell to fund my purchase of a smaller, lighter tripod for my honeymoon. While i have tried to put as much info as i can on the WTS thread, i have to be prepared for buyers who pull out last minute still. And yes, there are bidders who try to up the price to beat the queue, but it's for us to decide whether to decide or not. one guy offered a $3 premium, so he's sitting at the back of the queue with the rest. If another tells me he likes mine so much that he'll buy it at a $100 premium, will i be practical and see if the first bidder can accept the change in circumstances (i can even offer him compensation for the cancellation), or be ethical and reject it? Ultimately even if i call a shop to reserve an item, they can still sell it off to someone who pays good bucks before i go down, though they will have some damage control to do when we arrive. Anyway I'm glad i don't face such a situation for a simple thing as a tripod. :bsmilie:

oops... long rant... must be the heavy lunch that gave me so much inspiration not to get up and get productive work done...;p

 

[psyk1]

I support the idea of having a list.. We could have a good trader's list, where after a successful trade, both buyer's and seller's name can be put on a list after verifying the sale..
Of coz, trader has to apply for his name to be on the list himself, and someone (most probably a mod) will have to do the verification.. Similarly for "bad" trader's, although would probably be a bit harder to verify..

Thereafter, forumers can use the list to back up their credentials when buying or selling on BnS, hence giving more confidence to the other party.. Of course the list is not 100% foolproof, and could still be abused, hence caveat emptor (well, in this case, both buyer and seller should beware) still applies..

That said, it will add on to the responsibilities of the moderators, so not sure if its that viable..