BnS deal or no deal?

[Dream Merchant]

Actually, I've seen a lot being done (on another forum) where there are strict guidelines, and the classifieds policed by the mods, with the help of members.

In cases like ouutright cheating, they work together with the Feaderal authorities as well as local authorities.

That being said, it's actually the members and the mods there who help keep things honest and an honor-based system.

That is in the US, where you can imagine, geographical spread is way larger than SG, with a gazillion more netizens, not including international traders, and where the offenders can be a lot more cunning and outright.

What it all boils down to is the type of environment that is created in an online community by the forum leaders as well as the community itself, and how much they want to do something to make their 'home' a safe and healthy place to trade.

Edit: Just to clarify, a LOT more depends on the vigilence and attitudes of members. As one can imagine, the task of moderators in any large forum is not an easy one. If the members can't care enough to help themselves, and would rather adopt an attitude of apathy, what can we expect the moderators to do?

 

[lichtleiter]

Well, It happened to me again this morning.Two days in a row. The price, meeting, place, and time were already agreed. Then this seller SMS if one item can be taken out from the package. For some buyers, they can just leave it off as long as the item is not so important to them, but for me it adds value to the deal. The item was already there during the deal, thus it would be unethical to exclude an item after closing the deal. I never agreed then this seller stop SMS'ing. I check the post later at night and found out that it was already sold to another buyer. Thread closed.

 

[mm63]

I go into B&S with this attitude. Assume nothing until the item and money actually switches hands. It's like defensive driving aka assume everyone on the road is an idiot. If you go in with your eyes wide open, you will suffer less heartache and pain.

That said,my worst encounter was with this buyer who agreed on price and meeting place for my lens. When I met him, I allowed him to test my lens and then he tried to ask for discount. When I refused, I said he don't like the lens anymore even though it is in perfect working and physical condition. That really pissed me off.

 

[vince123123]

Name the fella and post a link to the thread

Well, It happened to me again this morning.Two days in a row. The price, meeting, place, and time were already agreed. Then this seller SMS if one item can be taken out from the package. For some buyers, they can just leave it off as long as the item is not so important to them, but for me it adds value to the deal. The item was already there during the deal, thus it would be unethical to exclude an item after closing the deal. I never agreed then this seller stop SMS'ing. I check the post later at night and found out that it was already sold to another buyer. Thread closed.

 

[cyquek]

Well, It happened to me again this morning.Two days in a row. The price, meeting, place, and time were already agreed. Then this seller SMS if one item can be taken out from the package. For some buyers, they can just leave it off as long as the item is not so important to them, but for me it adds value to the deal. The item was already there during the deal, thus it would be unethical to exclude an item after closing the deal. I never agreed then this seller stop SMS'ing. I check the post later at night and found out that it was already sold to another buyer. Thread closed.

bro, while i will say this is normal in bns, its not something i encourage. deal is deal, its a man's words already. wana take out things, then simply reduce price, at least thats more reasonable but at least let us know what he wants to remove.

since its ur son's birthday, my suggestion is walk into Peninsular (the one without CP). just go TCS, P&G etc and source for a camera, WYSIWYG, no need to bother with unethical people. Like i mentioned in another thread, i saw a 400D selling at $485, you try to beat that in CS? No harm going out with your son to look see, it may just be a better experience considering you can spend time with your son and teach him what to look out for and may be a better experience without those buggers who claims they are not playing game.

 

[twisted illusion]

bro, while i will say this is normal in bns, its not something i encourage. deal is deal, its a man's words already. wana take out things, then simply reduce price, at least thats more reasonable but at least let us know what he wants to remove.

since its ur son's birthday, my suggestion is walk into Peninsular (the one without CP). just go TCS, P&G etc and source for a camera, WYSIWYG, no need to bother with unethical people. Like i mentioned in another thread, i saw a 400D selling at $485, you try to beat that in CS? No harm going out with your son to look see, it may just be a better experience considering you can spend time with your son and teach him what to look out for and may be a better experience without those buggers who claims they are not playing game.

i think there is good seller, as well as bad seller, as well as there is good shop and bad shop... we just need to knw what price to pay for what items... but at least shops gives added assurance as most likely they wont close down overnite...

 

[Xiao_shin]

Happened to me a few time.. Just forget it and move on. I will personally blacklist the person in my little black book.:devil:

 

[cyquek]

i think there is good seller, as well as bad seller, as well as there is good shop and bad shop... we just need to knw what price to pay for what items... but at least shops gives added assurance as most likely they wont close down overnite...

but of coz, i am not saying all sellers are bad coz that would include myself. But everywhere, there will be some blacksheeps and we just need to know when to call it quits and look for alternatives....especially if its a case of i must buy it today.

 

[kwan0029]

I'm a victim too recently happen few days ago. I called the guy and he agreed wif me verbally tat he will reserved for me. Few mins ltr, he sms me tat somebody offer a good price, and says 'sorry'. Does apology helps? I was so keen and happy at that moment and it drops dead after awhile.

I juz feel ;(

If seller is not very sure abt the selling price, juz put to auction. Juz mention tat the items are open for auction. I know it hard to keep track for bidding so i suggest the following to the creator of this forum.

Shall this forum offer an auction thread to include necessary interfaces to ease the seller for putting up their items for auction? Makes easier for them to keep track and us buyer can see and react fast to the bidding.

 

[Dream Merchant]

It's no use if you keep quiet, knowing full well who the errant tradre is.

That's just the same as hiding and protecting a criminal or the guilty, and in some people's books is aiding and abetting the guilty.

There's so much inconsiderate and unfair behaviour, besides possible outright dishonesty that CSers need to step up to the plate and say something - specific. Name nemaes with full details.

Keeping quiet and moving on etc will not make the problem go away.

Do you want CS classifieds to remain like this?

 

[vince123123]

Hear Hear!

It's no use if you keep quiet, knowing full well who the errant tradre is.

That's just the same as hiding and protecting a criminal or the guilty, and in some people's books is aiding and abetting the guilty.

There's so much inconsiderate and unfair behaviour, besides possible outright dishonesty that CSers need to step up to the plate and say something - specific. Name nemaes with full details.

Keeping quiet and moving on etc will not make the problem go away.

Do you want CS classifieds to remain like this?

 

[lichtleiter]

I got a question here, How do you verify the shutter count of the cam during a deal?
Because some sellers are claiming their cam has <2k or whatever...

 

[o0darkn3ss0o]

I got a question here, How do you verify the shutter count of the cam during a deal?
Because some sellers are claiming their cam has <2k or whatever...

i dont think you can check the shutter count unless u bring a laptop along with cetain software installed to check then u can find out the real shutter count
if not u have to trust the seller
there is software to check shutter count for serveral model of camera but not all
Correct me if i wrong

 

[Zoomster]

Recently I sold my Canon 50mm and a buyer SMS-ed me and we agreed on the price.

I posted an update on CS that the item is reserved...blah blah.

Later in the day, when i go into CS again, got PM saying this (extract from actual PM by a CS-er)

"Although you have mentioned the item has already been reserved, are you willing to consider letting me buy your Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 + Kenko UV protection filter for $400 nett."

This guy was offering $20 more than what I had agreed with my buyer. I did not feel right taking a more higher offer. I told off the CS-er who PM-ed me & sold the lens to the initial buyer.

As a seller, I think it is only right to deal fairly. I would expect the same of another seller if I were the buyer.

 

[twisted illusion]

Recently I sold my Canon 50mm and a buyer SMS-ed me and we agreed on the price.

I posted an update on CS that the item is reserved...blah blah.

Later in the day, when i go into CS again, got PM saying this (extract from actual PM by a CS-er)

"Although you have mentioned the item has already been reserved, are you willing to consider letting me buy your Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 + Kenko UV protection filter for $400 nett."

This guy was offering $20 more than what I had agreed with my buyer. I did not feel right taking a more higher offer. I told off the CS-er who PM-ed me & sold the lens to the initial buyer.

As a seller, I think it is only right to deal fairly. I would expect the same of another seller if I were the buyer.

its all up to the seller one la.. i oso endure many higher offering when i reserved for my potential 1st approached me buyer the last time i traded...

 

[night86mare]

i'm all for the old system where replies could be made.

maybe we should make it compulsory to bid ON CLUBSNAP, so there is PUBLIC EVIDENCE of price being made and agreed upon. for example, perhaps buyer could list RESERVE PRICE , and then he can close the bidding anytime he wants, and there can even be a BUY NOW option, which is significantly higher. that way there will be transparency, no one will have some "take it or leave it" attitude since everything is out in the open.

of course there might be instances of bid padding, i.e. seller gets clone account to push the bid higher , but the plausibility of being found out is pretty high, seeing how cs admin have access to ip address, and most people would probably not take the trouble.

this is how ebay and yahoo auctions work, and it works fine. having just some classified ads thing, where communication is done via sms is just plain messy, irritating to handle due to great quantities of low ballers.. as far as possible i try not to sell my items, because it is almost always a pain in the arse to acknowledge how cheap some singaporeans can get.

in such a system buyer and seller can only be happy, and there can be solid basis on which to levy accusations of flaking out on deals when buyer/seller turns out to be irresponsible.

solving the root of the problem - a broken, inefficient, unpoliced system where there are countless loopholes to be manipulated is much more preferable than trying to patch the holes by naming sellers,buyers.. after all, so many people will just happily sms you and claim that they have no cs nickname. whether that is true is another thing, i don't see how hard it is to just register to buy something.

as for solutions, well, to be honest, this is something the admin and moderators have to handle. it is of course their choice, and should always be their choice, but taking some time to work out something which seriously, isn't too hard to implement (e.g. just do not allow members to post up email or handphone numbers) versus watching more and more complaint threads about b&s unfold.. well i know what i'd choose. but i'm just me.

 

[Dream Merchant]

i'm all for the old system where replies could be made.

maybe we should make it compulsory to bid ON CLUBSNAP, so there is PUBLIC EVIDENCE of price being made and agreed upon. for example, perhaps buyer could list RESERVE PRICE , and then he can close the bidding anytime he wants, and there can even be a BUY NOW option, which is significantly higher. that way there will be transparency, no one will have some "take it or leave it" attitude since everything is out in the open.

of course there might be instances of bid padding, i.e. seller gets clone account to push the bid higher , but the plausibility of being found out is pretty high, seeing how cs admin have access to ip address, and most people would probably not take the trouble.

this is how ebay and yahoo auctions work, and it works fine. having just some classified ads thing, where communication is done via sms is just plain messy, irritating to handle due to great quantities of low ballers.. as far as possible i try not to sell my items, because it is almost always a pain in the arse to acknowledge how cheap some singaporeans can get.

in such a system buyer and seller can only be happy, and there can be solid basis on which to levy accusations of flaking out on deals when buyer/seller turns out to be irresponsible.

solving the root of the problem - a broken, inefficient, unpoliced system where there are countless loopholes to be manipulated is much more preferable than trying to patch the holes by naming sellers,buyers.. after all, so many people will just happily sms you and claim that they have no cs nickname. whether that is true is another thing, i don't see how hard it is to just register to buy something.

as for solutions, well, to be honest, this is something the admin and moderators have to handle. it is of course their choice, and should always be their choice, but taking some time to work out something which seriously, isn't too hard to implement (e.g. just do not allow members to post up email or handphone numbers) versus watching more and more complaint threads about b&s unfold.. well i know what i'd choose. but i'm just me.

A fixed, effiecient, transparent and policed system is ideal, and I've seen it happen and work for many years on one of America's largest sports forums, where you can imagine, a HUGE amount of local and international trading for equipment happens.

Thing is, it requires a large degree of co-operation, and a moderate measure of maturity and reasonable behaviour from members, as well as dedicated and prolonged efforts on the part of Admin and Mods.

Going by the apathy shown in this thread alone (not referring to TS BTW, and I am sure there are way more incidences happening even as we type), it will be an uphill climb, but thereagain, if the rules, regulations and strict trading guidelines (including disclaimers) are laid down and enforced, it will not be something that Singaporeans are unaccustomed to.

 

[clioboy]

Seller should automatically show the buyer the previous bid either the smses or PMs..

to prove that the bids has been upped many times.

 

[+evenstar]

i'm all for the old system where replies could be made.

maybe we should make it compulsory to bid ON CLUBSNAP, so there is PUBLIC EVIDENCE of price being made and agreed upon. for example, perhaps buyer could list RESERVE PRICE , and then he can close the bidding anytime he wants, and there can even be a BUY NOW option, which is significantly higher. that way there will be transparency, no one will have some "take it or leave it" attitude since everything is out in the open.

of course there might be instances of bid padding, i.e. seller gets clone account to push the bid higher , but the plausibility of being found out is pretty high, seeing how cs admin have access to ip address, and most people would probably not take the trouble.

this is how ebay and yahoo auctions work, and it works fine. having just some classified ads thing, where communication is done via sms is just plain messy, irritating to handle due to great quantities of low ballers.. as far as possible i try not to sell my items, because it is almost always a pain in the arse to acknowledge how cheap some singaporeans can get.

in such a system buyer and seller can only be happy, and there can be solid basis on which to levy accusations of flaking out on deals when buyer/seller turns out to be irresponsible.

solving the root of the problem - a broken, inefficient, unpoliced system where there are countless loopholes to be manipulated is much more preferable than trying to patch the holes by naming sellers,buyers.. after all, so many people will just happily sms you and claim that they have no cs nickname. whether that is true is another thing, i don't see how hard it is to just register to buy something.

as for solutions, well, to be honest, this is something the admin and moderators have to handle. it is of course their choice, and should always be their choice, but taking some time to work out something which seriously, isn't too hard to implement (e.g. just do not allow members to post up email or handphone numbers) versus watching more and more complaint threads about b&s unfold.. well i know what i'd choose. but i'm just me.

or maybe the admins can create a script similiar to ebay. such that forummers can reply to the WTS thread, but can only input the price that they're offering.

e.g.
Seller A puts up a WTS thread. starting bid $100, BNP $150

forummers will only see a form at the bottom of the thread: "Enter Bid:$___" and "Click here to Buy Now"

no idea if this is feasible

 

[Xiao_shin]

Maybe it is time to bring back the old b/s system.