Big Fuss about YOUR RIGHTS in photog compeition

[azul123]

Take it as I dunno how to google.

Take it as I have selective memory.

Take it as I lose the arguement to you. You win.

My points still stick.

Not interested in winning arguments, your point here is not incorrect.

I am talking about selling the the rights to the photos to the prize money, as implied or stipulated in the competition. I mean, one has a choice in deciding the rights to this photos is worth this much or not right?

To the amateur, his thinking could be: "My photos is now worth to nothing. But this prize money buying over the rights to it is still worth it" (Group B).

To the professional/others, his thinking could be: "My photos is definitely worth alot. This prize money buying over the rights to it is Not worth it I am walking away" (Group A).

To the remaining group C, his thinking could be: "My photos is now worth something. This prize money buying over the rights to it is not worth it. I am still joining but it's unfair" (Group C).

My point being: to each his individual choice. If you are willing, dun complain. Not willing, dun join.

Just that many of us can't see claerly and are blurred by the exploitations. If you know the system that sustain a rat race, meaning the system orgainzer makes it such that those playing in the system run and run trying to make a living while the organizer of the system makes tons.

../azul123

 

[crazypaladin]

do you agree that there are people who join competitions without reading the rules and regulations? what's wrong with highlighting potential problems for these people?

This I agree fully. The intention to highlight to this people is good though, giving them the warning in the first place.

But whose fault it is not reading the rules and regulation before joining the competition?

 

[eikin]

Can argue until the cow comes homes, in the end , you happy you join, not happy dont join.

Just like the recent request from photographer for the Dxo calendar launch, noone complain about the FREE PHOTO.? Why the double standard. Should make it known over there and not here.

eh, hello, why not you find out where photogs' rights are infringed in that event before posting? i haven't seen the organiser say they will take exclusive rights of the photos they receive, but doesn't mean this rule won't exist because nothing was said. why not you go find out and tell us?

end of the day, if an organisation wants to take exclusive rights of the images, they better pay for it. otherwise there is room for negotiation.

 

[crazypaladin]

I think the system will balance itself eventually. Assuming the worse case in which all companies tried to exploit. Won't it come a day in which all participants simply refuses to join? Then what can these companies do? They will raise the prize money to own the rights to the images.

Now locally, the so called "exploitation" is encouraged by some of us, sadly.

 

[eikin]

This I agree fully. The intention to highlight to this people is good though, giving them the warning in the first place.

But whose fault it is not reading the rules and regulation before joining the competition?

don't you agree that there are many newbies around who will not have known much about or follow closely enough the T & C to protect themselves? human error exists, that's why there needs to be warning.

 

[crazypaladin]

don't you agree that there are many newbies around who will not have known much about or follow closely enough the T & C to protect themselves? human error exists, that's why there needs to be warning.

Agreed. But end of day, when there is a conflict over the rights of the photos, who will win? The companies with the signed agreement of the participant who didn't read the T&C or the participant who claimed never read the T&C? Then why bother have T&C? T&C is to protect the organizer.

 

[eikin]

I think the system will balance itself eventually. Assuming the worse case in which all companies tried to exploit. Won't it come a day in which all participants simply refuses to join? Then what can these companies do? They will raise the prize money to own the rights to the images.

Now locally, the so called "exploitation" is encouraged by some of us, sadly.

with so many people say 'agree join don't agree don't join' there will never be a day where no one will join because of problems with rights. there will always be newcomers who happily walk into the trap of organisers, just look at the speed of proliferation of digital photography. we can only work towards some kind of 'warning system,' especially when there is no organisation strong enough to stand up for photographers' rights.

 

[eikin]

Agreed. But end of day, when there is a conflict over the rights of the photos, who will win? The companies with the signed agreement of the participant who didn't read the T&C or the participant who claimed never read the T&C? Then why bother have T&C? T&C is to protect the organizer.

correct, so nothing wrong with 'making a big fuss' over T & C to warn people right? T & C protects organisers, and are usually out to exploit photogs. there's an unfair deal, but we cannot prevent it, so how? give out warning to unsuspecting participants lah.

 

[arowana]

Only page 3 , please continue more.

 

[rusty]

In short, it is a natural trait of human beings. If nobody makes noise, everyone assumes everything is ok.

If nobody raised the issue of shooting outside the esplanade (smart aleck security guard dissallowing us to shoot), the security guard would have thought that photographing the esplanade is not allowed, as mentioned in one of the threads in kopitiam.

Eventually if we raise our concerns in a civil yet unified voice, organisations will learn to hear about it, media gets to talk about it, and slowly things will change.

That is why we should not keep quiet when things are not right.

My sentiments.

 

[azul123]

I think the system will balance itself eventually. Assuming the worse case in which all companies tried to exploit. Won't it come a day in which all participants simply refuses to join? Then what can these companies do? They will raise the prize money to own the rights to the images.

Now locally, the so called "exploitation" is encouraged by some of us, sadly.

And that's where the pros are coming together voicing it out in forums such as this, what is so unfair in these competitions here with so little prize money, the orgainzer would not attract the really good photos, so for those who still are harping on this, I believe they are not in the same boat as the pros and here is where I'd like to restate, spare a thought for them, and let it be lah.

Maybe this will raise awareness to orgainzers that they must plan their budget right and not seek "cheap trick" or should I say "competition" and expect good images, cheap equates mediocre and not helping both sides. Really!!.

../azul123

 

[eikin]

end of the day, i will never bother with someone who reads and understand an unfair T & C but still wants to join.

but seriously, these only encourage organisations to continue exploiting participants, but there's nothing we can do against them now, no one authority is powerful enough or has enough interest to take up such a task. but at least there's some warning.

 

[azul123]

In short, it is a natural trait of human beings. If nobody makes noise, everyone assumes everything is ok.

If nobody raised the issue of shooting outside the esplanade (smart aleck security guard dissallowing us to shoot), the security guard would have thought that photographing the esplanade is not allowed, as mentioned in one of the threads in kopitiam.

Eventually if we raise our concerns in a civil yet unified voice, organisations will learn to hear about it, media gets to talk about it, and slowly things will change.

That is why we should not keep quiet when things are not right.

My sentiments.

Totally agree, man.

../azul123

 

[crazypaladin]

with so many people say 'agree join don't agree don't join' there will never be a day where no one will join because of problems with rights. there will always be newcomers who happily walk into the trap of organisers, just look at the speed of proliferation of digital photography. we can only work towards some kind of 'warning system,' especially when there is no organisation strong enough to stand up for photographers' rights.

exactly. guess the point is now knowing that the exploitation is also encouraged by fellow photographers, we must also tackle the photographers issue. But that said, all the proponent of this thread is simply saying "Happy then join, not happy dun join". The so called exploitation might not be so negative cos after all, the companies still give some money (though not much) but this is still their hard earned money.

The other side of the argument (eikin & azul & others) is simply to serve as a warning to this exploitation.

End of the day, the system will balance itself in the following ways, I believe: you pay peanuts, you get willing monkeys (sorry for the pun).

There are always better competition out there. But let's not forget, some simply join for the fun of it and might "accidentally" win the prize.

 

[crazypaladin]

Only page 3 , please continue more.

Guess the thread ending soon... understanding is achieved. balance is there.

 

[azul123]

exactly. guess the point is now knowing that the exploitation is also encouraged by fellow photographers, we must also tackle the photographers issue. But that said, all the proponent of this thread is simply saying "Happy then join, not happy dun join". The so called exploitation might not be so negative cos after all, the companies still give some money (though not much) but this is still their hard earned money.

The other side of the argument (eikin & azul & others) is simply to serve as a warning to this exploitation.

End of the day, the system will balance itself in the following ways, I believe: you pay peanuts, you get willing monkeys (sorry for the pun).

There are always better competition out there. But let's not forget, some simply join for the fun of it and might "accidentally" win the prize.

At last, something we can agree on. :thumbsup:

../azul123

 

[eikin]

exactly. guess the point is now knowing that the exploitation is also encouraged by fellow photographers, we must also tackle the photographers issue. But that said, all the proponent of this thread is simply saying "Happy then join, not happy dun join". The so called exploitation might not be so negative cos after all, the companies still give some money (though not much) but this is still their hard earned money.

you must get this in, there are many cases where organisations take your images' rights in a competition and don't reward you anything, not even a single cent. you don't even earn anything hard enough. that's totally negative. that's exploitation.

if the photog (whose images' rights are taken) is rewarded by the organisation (even if non-monetary), then the photog is not exploited.

 

[arowana]

Guess the thread ending soon... understanding is achieved. balance is there.

bro, if cannot win them , just join them la...

Hope those who post here really meant what they say.

 

[crazypaladin]

you must get this in, there are many cases where organisations take your images' rights in a competition and don't reward you anything, not even a single cent. you don't even earn anything hard enough. that's totally negative.

Agreed. But the key issue is how come there is still people joining, encouraging it? I guess we have really missed out people who just wanted to have have fun and see how their photos would compare to others. There are really people who are satisfied with their entries appearing in papers and showing it to friends though they dun get a single cents. The experience and seeing one's work appreciated by a company and using its as advertisement is more than what money can buy. Right?

 

[crazypaladin]

bro, if cannot win them , just join them la...

Hope those who post here really meant what they say.

heehee. See my definition of Group C.