Anyone here ever wanted to become pro PG but gave up?

[Zichar]

- Learn that people photography is about people, not about photography. Great portraits are a side effect of a strong human connection.

I like this
Speaking as a client, I am always impressed by those who seems to be always affable, friendly and charming
And yet not come off as fake, pretentious and sleazy
Plus still firm enough to let clients down easy when it comes to weird requests and what-nots
... a real natural at cajoling, coaxing, bringing the best in people's reactions and emotions
Being human, I can only imagine that a photographer also has ups and downs, but must bring his A-game everytime he's at an event

 

[Agetan]

Come on be nice. What looks average may not be so average in eyes of many. There is no need to say such and such as bad skill? Run your own race and remember it is better to have a peer as friend than enemy right?

It is so easy for us to say that A is better than B and A should charge more argument but what is the point? They charge what they perceive to be value and let it be.

I am sorry but think its time to be a little positive.

Regards,

Hart

Marketing, marketing, marketing. Which includes networking, good social skills, networking, I don't know being able to smile, networking, being at the right place, have I mentioned networking?

There's no problem taking the best pictures in the world, if no one knows about you and your work.

When you start out, no one will.

I'd like to say that you get one job, take nice pictures, and it snowballs from there. But it doesn't work that way unless you're very very lucky.

Generally it's, you get one job, take nice pictures, and, erm, that's it.

So, can you keep finding work as an unknown, until some day a year or quite probably more, down the road, where people DO start coming to you.

Because until then, you're going to have to go to them.

And how good (or not) you are at that is more important than how good you are as a photographer. I'm kind of living proof of that.

The oft cited quote I give is, a good marketer with average photography skills will make a better living than an average marketer with good photography skills.

I'd go so far as to say an excellent marketer with poor photography skills will make a better living than a poor marketer with excellent photography skills.

That's one reason you see a boatload of "average" stuff out there.

 

[2100]

Its easy to turn pro and maintain lah, if you have a down-to-earth lifestyle. You can see it as just a job. 30-40K is really not difficult.
Nice job, wanna do just do. If you are feeling lazy, don't take so many jobs at low pricings. Also be prepapred for all the "stunts" the low end couples dish out. LOL! But if you live it up and want a nice lifestyle, even 100K may not be sufficient. Aim for 150K pa and above as a wedding photographer, i'd say its not easily sustainable for most.

Say you had shot for 5 years, earned 60-100K per annum, and have saved 250K of it which is a very decent amt. What do you do with it? Did you buy a BMW or pumped 80K into stocks last year? That's another VERY important question.

 

[Ian]

Its easy to turn pro and maintain lah, if you have a down-to-earth lifestyle. You can see it as just a job. 30-40K is really not difficult.
Nice job, wanna do just do. If you are feeling lazy, don't take so many jobs at low pricings. Also be prepapred for all the "stunts" the low end couples dish out. LOL! But if you live it up and want a nice lifestyle, even 100K may not be sufficient. Aim for 150K pa and above as a wedding photographer, i'd say its not easily sustainable for most.

Say you had shot for 5 years, earned 60-100K per annum, and have saved 250K of it which is a very decent amt. What do you do with it? Did you buy a BMW or pumped 80K into stocks last year? That's another VERY important question.

Tried have you?

 

[Agetan]

Its easy to turn pro and maintain lah, if you have a down-to-earth lifestyle. You can see it as just a job. 30-40K is really not difficult.
Nice job, wanna do just do. If you are feeling lazy, don't take so many jobs at low pricings. Also be prepapred for all the "stunts" the low end couples dish out. LOL! But if you live it up and want a nice lifestyle, even 100K may not be sufficient. Aim for 150K pa and above as a wedding photographer, i'd say its not easily sustainable for most.

Say you had shot for 5 years, earned 60-100K per annum, and have saved 250K of it which is a very decent amt. What do you do with it? Did you buy a BMW or pumped 80K into stocks last year? That's another VERY important question.

Are you talking of actually nett profit or turn over?

If 150k turnover then it will barely cover the cost if u do evrything right.

If u want a good 30-50k left as profit, if u r good with managing the cost, you will probably need a good 250k turnover.

It is a lot of hardwork to maintain it.

I am sure those are in pro market will agree with me.

Regards,

Hart

 

[Jed]

Come on be nice. What looks average may not be so average in eyes of many. There is no need to say such and such as bad skill? Run your own race and remember it is better to have a peer as friend than enemy right?

It is so easy for us to say that A is better than B and A should charge more argument but what is the point? They charge what they perceive to be value and let it be.

I am sorry but think its time to be a little positive.

Eh? Do you mean me/my post?

It's not negative... and I don't see how I wasn't being nice?

It's a positive post if anything, assuming you are a good marketer and an average photographer for example.

I wasn't knocking anyone's abilities or saying that they have "bad skill", and reading it again I'm not quite sure how that impression was conveyed. I've not said anyone specific was "average" either.

I was dealing in general terms and I'm not sure quite how you've interpreted my comments as being directed as someone specific? It's like saying, a salesperson with better persuasive skills and average dress will sell more than a salesman who has average persuasive skills and good dress. I'm not poking the finger at anyone specific surely, or being negative?

 

[Agetan]

Hello,

i am sorry but feel the way your last sentence abt boatload of "average" stuff out there a little judgemental.

Thats what i mean.

Some may have feel it the wrong way and life is too short to make people feel that way.

I run my own race as i do photography to please myself as it is a passion so i dont like negative stuff. Life is a little too short not to enjoy it.

I think we r off tangent... Sorry TS.

Hart

 

[Ian]

Are you talking of actually nett profit or turn over?

If 150k turnover then it will barely cover the cost if u do evrything right.

If u want a good 30-50k left as profit, if u r good with managing the cost, you will probably need a good 250k turnover.

It is a lot of hardwork to maintain it.

I am sure those are in pro market will agree with me.

Regards,

Hart

Nett Profit over 5-6 years.

An impossible dream for most in Singapore I'd say.

 

[mo2]

Hi Hart ...

I totally agree with you when you mentioned ...

"I run my own race as i do photography to please myself as it is a passion so i dont like negative stuff. Life is a little too short not to enjoy it."

I've been doing photography professionally for past 24 years (since 1986) & am still enjoying it when i can gladly say i did a good job.

My clients are all happy & positive feedback from them boost my passion further.

Being a good photographer comes with experiences in all aspects of photography, and experience comes with age.

Photography is very interesting & self fulfilling when the formulas right.

Mr Hart .... We've met before ... Shhh !!!

 

[Agetan]

Nett Profit over 5-6 years.

An impossible dream for most in Singapore I'd say.

Don't think it is impossible but would have to work really hard for it... I won't discount for those who is getting there...

Me, not Singaporean of course so even more impossible... hahaha... kidding.

Ah well, it is just money right? Life has more important stuff than worry about money...

Hart

 

[Agetan]

Hi Hart ...

I totally agree with you when you mentioned ...

"I run my own race as i do photography to please myself as it is a passion so i dont like negative stuff. Life is a little too short not to enjoy it."

I've been doing photography professionally for past 24 years (since 1986) & am still enjoying it when i can gladly say i did a good job.

My clients are all happy & positive feedback from them boost my passion further.

Being a good photographer comes with experiences in all aspects of photography, and experience comes with age.

Photography is very interesting & self fulfilling when the formulas right.

Mr Hart .... We've met before ... Shhh !!!

Thanx

 

[Jed]

i am sorry but feel the way your last sentence abt boatload of "average" stuff out there a little judgemental.

A boatload of "average" stuff out there, doesn't imply there isn't also a boatload of good stuff out there?

Are you intending to claim that there isn't a lot of rubbish out there?

There are a lot of poor photographers out there.

That's not mutually exclusive with the fact that there are a lot of good photographers out there.

I can't believe I'm being criticised for pointing out that there is a lot of poor photography out there :embrass:

There are poor people in any industry... photography, construction, office work, marketing, IT, etc etc. That's a statement of fact, not me being negative.

And just so I balance things out:

There are good people in any industry... photography, construction, office work, marketing, IT, etc etc. That's a statement of fact, not me being positive.

 

[Agetan]

Hi Jed,

pls dont feel that i am talking abt you but it is the word that we use sometime.

I prefer to offer the hopeful point of view. This world is already full of negativity of almost all things. So positive remarks perhaps a nicer touch.

Do i feel if there is a lot of "rubbish" out there? I personaly think it is a style that we dont feel for it does not make them rubbish. If they are doing well in their business, it is probably something we can learn from it.

Thats what i feel.

By all mean, the message that i am trying to get it across is that we should use positive words to enhance the community rather making a slightest chance to put people down.

All the best

Hart

 

[ckuang]

Back to answering the OPs questions, yes, I have met many photogs that tried to go pro but eventually gave up.

I think over the next few years you will see many more of these photogs that tried these few years who will give up.

IMO, the photography industry (for wedding and portraits fields anyway) is in the midst of a bubble, much like the bubble tea bubble, where at one time there were hundreds of these stores and then one day they all disappeared.

Why do people fail making it as pros? Probably the same variety of reasons people fail to make it as anything in any field... Olympic athletes, singers, painters, housing agents, chefs... in some ways, we're really not that different from any industry. If WPPI (biggest photography trade show around) was anything to go by, this industry will be facing challenging conditions for the next few years.

 

[Agetan]

In that note, I don't think photography like bubble tea though, somehow to a lesser degree I think... and you are right, photography is like any other type of business.

I don't really see the trend of new people come in and out will somewhat change. It may, but to the very slight degree.

With the advancement in digital technology, we will see many of highly creative people pops out in the middle of nowhere and it will certainly an interesting aspect to look at too.



Hart

 

[lancey]

is how good you able to sell your photos

sum it up:
good photo ≠ good business
salable photos = good business

salable photos= shyt

naturally.

 

[catchlights]

salable photos= shyt

naturally.

in photography business, a salable photo is art or not, sh1t or not, doesn't really matter.

but every photographers will tell you only one thing, if their photos don't sell, they are in deep sh1t.

anyway, want to make a guess who said this??

Thanks.

My microstock photos are not worth a look. They are boring, functional and uninspired photos just to make a dollar or two. I'm not proud of them.

 

[chanjyj]

Grr. This thread reminds me only of one thing.

A person who goes around selling him/herself (usually a him) as a 'Professional Photographer' when they just bought a camera 3mths before. You ask them "are you fulltime" and they evade the answer :angry:

Another type who just bought a DSLR and TRULY thinks they can do a business (let's not mention their skill level yet). They go round trying their best to market their services, but use web providers like '.multiply.com, .zenfolio.com, .blogspot.com'. GAH.

Sorry to rant. I'm just plain pissed off after seeing so much crap recently.. I'm about to blow up internally. :embrass:

 

[chanjyj]

Back to answering the OPs questions, yes, I have met many photogs that tried to go pro but eventually gave up.

I think over the next few years you will see many more of these photogs that tried these few years who will give up.

IMO, the photography industry (for wedding and portraits fields anyway) is in the midst of a bubble, much like the bubble tea bubble, where at one time there were hundreds of these stores and then one day they all disappeared.

Why do people fail making it as pros? Probably the same variety of reasons people fail to make it as anything in any field... Olympic athletes, singers, painters, housing agents, chefs... in some ways, we're really not that different from any industry. If WPPI (biggest photography trade show around) was anything to go by, this industry will be facing challenging conditions for the next few years.

I disagree. Bubble tea was a fad. The cheaper and cheaper cost of DSLRs now - I don't think it is a fad.

And though some aspiring novices have failed at their business, there are plenty PLENTY more to fill their place.

 

[soons]

Grr. This thread reminds me only of one thing.

A person who goes around selling him/herself (usually a him) as a 'Professional Photographer' when they just bought a camera 3mths before. You ask them "are you fulltime" and they evade the answer :angry:

Another type who just bought a DSLR and TRULY thinks they can do a business (let's not mention their skill level yet). They go round trying their best to market their services, but use web providers like '.multiply.com, .zenfolio.com, .blogspot.com'. GAH.

Sorry to rant. I'm just plain pissed off after seeing so much crap recently.. I'm about to blow up internally. :embrass:

Well, I even seen some of them label themselves as professional photographer, reason being they have a DSLR...^_^||