Another Bad Experience?

[USM]

I believe that this is nothing new in the forum but I have to raise the issue again.

I have contacted this seller this morning at around 3am, mind you the timing. :bigeyes: After so many sms till 4am, we have finally strike a deal. We will meet up at noon to transact.

Who knows, just before transaction, he sms to tell me that someone has offered him a higher price, and the deal has to be cancelled. ;(

What can I do in this kind of situation? He is the seller, he has the right to sell to whoever he wants to, right? So I really LL. Next, I asked him the question about Integrity. Guess what he said? Price(cash) outweighs integrity. He will sell to that higher bidder. This bring me to think that integrity is worthless. Who cares? Money is all you care. Sian...

Sad to say that, I have finally encountered this kind of deal after so many years. To all those up there, you will definitely meet one one of these days, hopefully you will not, so pray hard.

I am not here to create a fuss out of it. Just a comment on Integrity issue. Don't commit if you have not sure, etc. Don't create hope for others and then trash it away. Don't waste each other time. :nono:

 

[blurblock]

I believe that this is nothing new in the forum but I have to raise the issue again.

I have contacted this seller this morning at around 3am, mind you the timing. :bigeyes: After so many sms till 4am, we have finally strike a deal. We will meet up at noon to transact.

Who knows, just before transaction, he sms to tell me that someone has offered him a higher price, and the deal has to be cancelled. ;(

What can I do in this kind of situation? He is the seller, he has the right to sell to whoever he wants to, right? So I really LL. Next, I asked him the question about Integrity. Guess what he said? Price(cash) outweighs integrity. He will sell to that higher bidder. This bring me to think that integrity is worthless. Who cares? Money is all you care. Sian...

Sad to say that, I have finally encountered this kind of deal after so many years. To all those up there, you will definitely meet one one of these days, hopefully you will not, so pray hard.

I am not here to create a fuss out of it. Just a comment on Integrity issue. Don't commit if you have not sure, etc. Don't create hope for others and then trash it away. Don't waste each other time. :nono:

Aiyoh, so simple, ask him how much the other person bid, then bid higher then the other person. Then do a no show on the meeting place, when he sms u, just say u found a cheaper alternative. When he said things like how about integerity, refer him to his own SMS ;P.

Me also ganna something like tat once, one person say sell me something, then just 2 hours b4 the deal, he sms say some1 offer more by about $50, i think, can't remember. Then ask me if I want to up my offer. I say no. 1 day later, he sms me again, saying the other party fly him kite, last minute no want buy ask me if I want to buy from him the item by the price of the person who fly him kite ..... think me stupid or wat.

 

[ricleo]

hmmmm...."yuan yuan xiang bao he shi liao" ??? If everyone does the revenge thing on clubsnap buy/sell...it'll ruin the community there... It's bad enough there are some bad sheep among us, but if we also retaliate in the same way, how are we to say that we're better than them? Just my 2cts worth...

 

[Pro Image]

Admins and Moderators pls step in! Thank you.

We know there is a Guidelines on Buy and Sell Thread. There should be an alternative to this.

I think you need to find another way to implement this Buy and Sell. It looks like it may get out of hand soon. If all buyers or sellers have this kinda of attitude, there is bound to have flaming here and there.

I am sure the Admin, Mods and nearly 7,000 plus members have read this thread posted earlier 4 days ago.

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=66403

Although the amount maybe small but it's not healthy to read this kinda of thread here as this may force others to sell else where.

What do you think?

Thank you!

 

[kiwitan]

Please ... let's don't act like little cry babies....It's bad enough when we need the *** to tell us make more babies, cannot gamble, do this, do that etc. Let's be grown up and resolve any disagreement ourselves without calling on higher authority to intervene. :bheart: :bheart: :bheart:

Admins and Moderators pls step in! Thank you.

What do you think?

Thank you!

 

[Pro Image]

Please ... let's don't act like little cry babies....It's bad enough when we need the *** to tell us make more babies, cannot gamble, do this, do that etc. Let's be grown up and resolve any disagreement ourselves without calling on higher authority to intervene. :bheart: :bheart: :bheart:

Somethings are better to let the higher authority handle.

I understand what you are trying you to point out but if this happens to you, what will you do? It's not about cry babies but this is how the world is. Morever this is their website. They should makesure nothing goes out of hand or else it will be a laughing stock.

This site is viewed by people around the world.

Although it a mere sum of $20-30, they have the right to voice it out. At least we know who they are. In the near future we will know how to deal with those irresponsible scums. Although they can created another nick or change their mobile numbers, at least we will be more careful.

As for higher authority, hope they can set a stricter guidelines. That is what I meant.

Hope you can understand.

Thank you.

 

[Darren]

In the interest of free speech (to a certain extent), we have made a conscious decision not to intervene unless the thread and posts get out of hand. However, having said that, if there are fraudulent activities going on, we will definitely take action.

As always, both parties (buyer & seller) should take to heart that all transactions are fully and wholly the responsibility of each party. I believe that we are all adults and we should try to resolve matters in as amicable a fashion as possible. If that fails, there are legal avenues that one can pursue.

You will find this behaviour wherever there is trading going on - newspaper/teletext classifieds, bulletin boards at 7-11, posterboards at bus-stops, online, etc - its human behaviour, and there's probably not a lot we (as Moderators/Admins of ClubSNAP) can do to curb it's occurence here.

Online, that behaviour and its effects are much more pronounced as there is an inherent ability and avenue for members to post their feelings and findings without much due thought on consequences and repercussions, and thus it will generate the kind of postings we have seen recently.

What can one do in event of a bad transaction?
1) Exhaust all course of remedy with buyer/seller - call and discuss (I find SMS too impersonal, and the msg/tone may be misconstrued), leave voicemail, etc.
2) If #1 fails, look at legal remedies if the amount to be recovered is deemed important or big enough to warrant.
3) If #1 fails, and #2 is not worth it, then chalk it up to experience and be more wary and careful in future.

 

[mpenza]

Admins and Moderators pls step in! Thank you.

We know there is a Guidelines on Buy and Sell Thread. There should be an alternative to this.

I think you need to find another way to implement this Buy and Sell. It looks like it may get out of hand soon. If all buyers or sellers have this kinda of attitude, there is bound to have flaming here and there.

My view (not the Admin's or Mods') is unless we ban Buy & Sell totally, misbehaviour will persist.

However, buyers and sellers do develop reputation and trust (or bad reputation and mistrust) over time, though mainly informally and through word of mouth.

One way I thought that could control the misbehaviour is for everyone who wants put something up for sale or view the Buy & Sell forum to put up a deposit ($50?). This will be forfeited when a complaint occurs and is "judged" to be valid. The deposit will go into funding of Clubsnap and activities. However, this creates a lot of work for the Admin and probably not popular with members ;p

 

[USM]

It seems that when money is concerned, everything else is secondary. :think:

Incidentally, that seller is also a student.

 

[loupgarou]

just put up a hall of shame.

 

[Brandon]

It seems that when money is concerned, everything else is secondary. :think:

Incidentally, that seller is also a student.

:nono: Let's leave out the status of the culprit out please (ie: being a student)

I'm sure there are many students in CS that is not like that. A person's integrity is not related to whether he is working or studying or whatever.

Besides, in your post you said after so many years you finally meet this kind of deal. Doesn't that show that generally there are more good people around?

I symphatise for your bad luck in "striking the jackpot" this time.
But if I were you I would just tell all my friend privately to warn them about any particular person.

Just my 2 cents for the well being of the club.

PS: The suggestion to up your bid and stood him up sounds really appealing to me heh heh heh :bsmilie:

 

[Larry]

You will find this behaviour wherever there is trading going on - newspaper/teletext classifieds, bulletin boards at 7-11, posterboards at bus-stops, online, etc - its human behaviour, and there's probably not a lot we (as Moderators/Admins of ClubSNAP) can do to curb it's occurence here.

Just to add on to Darren's points, even eBay.com, probably the world's biggest and most well-regulated buying & selling website, suffers from more than its fair share of fraudulent deals and bad transactions. And there's very little anyone can do about it since one can always re-register again. When it comes to buying and selling 2nd hand goods, I'm willing to bet my last dollar there will always be a way to circumvent the 'system'. Moreever, many of the incidents here (yes I have been monitoring the feedback personally) are based on defaulting on agreements and 'integrity' issues. These are very arbitary and subjective factors and near-impossible to reconciliate - after all who's got the definitive say in who's right or wrong?

Also, personally if someone is willing to back out of a deal cos of a few dollars increment, IMHO it's probably not worth getting it from the seller in the first place. Another thing to point out is that for every deal gone sour here, there's at least 5 other successful ones where everyone walks away happy. Don't let a few "bad apples" spoil the experience.

As always, remember... Caveat Emptor.

 

[DennisLee]

Please ... let's don't act like little cry babies....It's bad enough when we need the *** to tell us make more babies, cannot gamble, do this, do that etc. Let's be grown up and resolve any disagreement ourselves without calling on higher authority to intervene. :bheart: :bheart: :bheart:

Ya, i agree with kiwitan. Buy/sell second hand on the net is always a risk. Both in the dealing, the price and the product. If you want security in the dealing, maybe 2nd hand shop is better. Otherwise, u need to exercise discretion.

 

[DennisLee]

just put up a hall of shame.

In disputes, many things could be subjective. That's why need judges

 

[alloy]

I believe that this is nothing new in the forum but I have to raise the issue again.

I have contacted this seller this morning at around 3am, mind you the timing. :bigeyes: After so many sms till 4am, we have finally strike a deal. We will meet up at noon to transact.

Who knows, just before transaction, he sms to tell me that someone has offered him a higher price, and the deal has to be cancelled. ;(

What can I do in this kind of situation? He is the seller, he has the right to sell to whoever he wants to, right? So I really LL. Next, I asked him the question about Integrity. Guess what he said? Price(cash) outweighs integrity. He will sell to that higher bidder. This bring me to think that integrity is worthless. Who cares? Money is all you care. Sian...

Sad to say that, I have finally encountered this kind of deal after so many years. To all those up there, you will definitely meet one one of these days, hopefully you will not, so pray hard.

I am not here to create a fuss out of it. Just a comment on Integrity issue. Don't commit if you have not sure, etc. Don't create hope for others and then trash it away. Don't waste each other time. :nono:

Hey bro i understand how u feel lah. And like wat i have told u over the phone jus now, u jus gotta treat it as a deal gone bad jus like my case. At least u did not lose anything. Next time we have to be a little more careful when transacting. At least ur bad apple came after u have dealed for so many years, so like wat the others have said, i think there still isnt that much baddie yet. I for one will still continue to support the buy/sell forum here. I wont let 1 or 2 bad apples deter me from buying or selling things here. I have met many ppl, and im glad to say that most if not all are very pleasant and good to deal with. Jus like u. Havent we became friends from jus 1 deal?

 

[Fundee]

this kind of incident occurs everywhere... the bottom line is.. its impossible to stop them ...ban them or block their IP??? they will log is as diff user/terminal... flood their hp with sms ??? make a bogus appoinment???... if revenge is in our mind... what diff are we from them... happy ??? what's this b/s forum will turn into?? ... what kind of community have we become ???... Both buyers and sellers must be careful... get the personal touch by calling.. how much integrity you have gotta be answered by you yourself....
lets cool this thing down and keep moving to a better direction....

 

[toasty]

I would discourage revenge-type actions such as bidding a higher price and then standing up the guy up just to get back, or to "show him what it's like". Doing so is childish, and can easily spiral out of control into a tit-for-tat like feud. It also shows that you are no better than he is and breaks the golden rule.

I think having a rating system is a good idea. Each person has a record in which people can write their comments about him/her after the transaction if they wish. Good buyers/sellers will receive good comments (reviews) and this list will get longer and longer as time goes on. Bad buyers/sellers will receive bad reviews and people will probably not trade with them and they will be forced to change their nicks. But people with new nicks, ought to always be treated with a healthy degree of skeptism.

Some buyers/sellers over time will accumulate a nice long list of good feedback and comments. This will be a good sign that he is trustworthy and that future buyers and sellers can take this person at their word. Those with bad feedback or no feedback, will need to be treated with more caution. The feedback could be kept interactive, allowing the person being reviewed to defend himself if he deems the comments unfair.

Not only would such a database be helpful to people who wish to transact, it will also encourage good behaviour in all transactions, as people do not wish to blacken their record.

I believe the most general criticism of such a system is that some people can abuse it by deliberately writing poor (or good) reviews out of spite. But the person being reviewed would be able to defend himself, (keeping silent would be a sign of guilt).

I think that such a system would necessitate forbidding mults (one person having 2 or more accounts) as we use the handles to identify a person. Using mults to conceal or confound identity goes against the basic idea of having handles in the first place. Otherwise we could all be guest2563 and guest12039. It is also a fairly sure sign of lack of integrity, especially when people use multiple accounts to try to support themselves in an argument or something like that. I feel that mults should be forbidden and a review system should be implemented for CS members to help in ascertaining the reliability of a potential buyer or seller. Of course, the information inside would be provided as-is and would not be any "guarantee" of a person's integrity. Just a gauge.

 

[drebel]

I would discourage revenge-type actions such as bidding a higher price and then standing up the guy up just to get back, or to "show him what it's like". Doing so is childish, and can easily spiral out of control into a tit-for-tat like feud. It also shows that you are no better than he is and breaks the golden rule.

I think having a rating system is a good idea. Each person has a record in which people can write their comments about him/her after the transaction if they wish. Good buyers/sellers will receive good comments (reviews) and this list will get longer and longer as time goes on. Bad buyers/sellers will receive bad reviews and people will probably not trade with them and they will be forced to change their nicks. But people with new nicks, ought to always be treated with a healthy degree of skeptism.

Some buyers/sellers over time will accumulate a nice long list of good feedback and comments. This will be a good sign that he is trustworthy and that future buyers and sellers can take this person at their word. Those with bad feedback or no feedback, will need to be treated with more caution. The feedback could be kept interactive, allowing the person being reviewed to defend himself if he deems the comments unfair.

Not only would such a database be helpful to people who wish to transact, it will also encourage good behaviour in all transactions, as people do not wish to blacken their record.

I believe the most general criticism of such a system is that some people can abuse it by deliberately writing poor (or good) reviews out of spite. But the person being reviewed would be able to defend himself, (keeping silent would be a sign of guilt).

I think that such a system would necessitate forbidding mults (one person having 2 or more accounts) as we use the handles to identify a person. Using mults to conceal or confound identity goes against the basic idea of having handles in the first place. Otherwise we could all be guest2563 and guest12039. It is also a fairly sure sign of lack of integrity, especially when people use multiple accounts to try to support themselves in an argument or something like that. I feel that mults should be forbidden and a review system should be implemented for CS members to help in ascertaining the reliability of a potential buyer or seller. Of course, the information inside would be provided as-is and would not be any "guarantee" of a person's integrity. Just a gauge.

in short... just follow yahoo! rating system lah.. :bsmilie:

 

[LCT]

There is no good governance system in place here, and many Singaporean, sad to say, will renege on their words to save or to earn a few dollars more. Hence, you can debate and argue, such problems with people having low degree of integrity and commitment to their words will often cropped up.

Any Buy and Sell activities conducted here is often a risk and on occasion can be a waste of time particularly when one meets with an immature seller/buyer with deplorable buying/selling behaviour.

I hope those culprits involved can learn to live by their words and commitment to others. Its important to be a respectable human being and not have no backbone just because of a few dollars saving.

 

[y0ngcheng]

Hello USM :bsmilie:
Me send my condolence
Lets hope that Buy/sell will be another friend making session in clubsnap