All Round Pro HDV Camcorders???

[StaRIdoL]

I am interested in investing in a professional HDV camcorder but I do not know which is the all-rounder I should get.

I need advise on which brand and which model I should be considering? I am considering models that utilises the HDV tapes ONLY.

Also, are there local shops/websites which sell 2nd hand professional HDV camcorders?

Any advise is most welcomed!

 

[jaegersing]

If you could give an indication of your budget it would be easier to recommend something.

 

[tommytang]

You want HDV format, then you'll be looking at Canon, Sony and JVC. Next is the option of tape or tapeless recording media. JVC / Canon only use mini DV tapes, while Sony have hyprids that can do both.

Check out the various brands website then narrow down your choices.

 

[Hobbes00]

Canon XH-A1. The best HDV Camera around for the price.
I use it for my films, documentaries and corporate work.
I'm selling mine if you want a 2nd hand one, here are some clips of stuff I've done on the XH-A1...

http://vimeo.com/channels/fps#7250033
http://vimeo.com/channels/fps#4572518

 

[jasonjoseph]

the sony z5 has 20x zoom which is very useful for events coverage
the sony z7 has interchangeable lens which i have never seen any variations for.

i would deffinately go with a model which shoots Progressive and uses a CMOS sensor rather than 3CCD.

the z1 which was a great model for its time has gone a little out of date.

not sure about Cannon or other brands.

but Z5 is my new fav tape based camera.

 

[Hobbes00]

The one major bad thing about using a CMOS sensor is if there is flash photography, you'll get really annoying lines on your video.

 

[jaegersing]

The one major bad thing about using a CMOS sensor is if there is flash photography, you'll get really annoying lines on your video.

The other major bad thing about using CMOS sensors is the jello effect when you move the camera quickly.

 

[chanxj]

I second z5. amazing low light capability, better than z1 by alot lot lot....... even on high gain, image very clean. Much better than the panasonic hvx series and canon a1 i evaluated when all the vendors came down and loaned us sets for couple of days.

The canon range cannot hold up against the other vendors like sony or panasonic in terms of image quality in my opinion which comes from my real world testing.

 

[Hobbes00]

I think your statement of "The canon range cannot hold up against the other vendors" doesn't hold up.

Use the z5 for an event, or photo-shoot or fast-paced news gathering. It will fall apart.
I guess it depends on your overall application.
There are so many more films made with the XHA1 compared to the Z5 (Base on several international forums). Plus, there is a huge online community of A1 users compared to the Z5 users.
I'm talking about the over-all best HDV camera, not the sharpest or the neatest - something that you can use for all application and has awesome picture quality - trust me the colors of the Canon is quite exhilarating in the hands of the right person.

 

[Reportage]

I am interested in investing in a professional HDV camcorder but I do not know which is the all-rounder I should get.

I need advise on which brand and which model I should be considering? I am considering models that utilises the HDV tapes ONLY.

Also, are there local shops/websites which sell 2nd hand professional HDV camcorders?

Any advise is most welcomed!

Expandore is a good place to start for all things video.

Now just be sure you are getting for the right reasons.

If you dont need manual functions, consumer camcorders are pretty good when used properly...of course it helps to know the software side of things as well.

 

[StaRIdoL]

Thank you all for your valuable inputs.

If you are selling or you know of pple selling their HDV cameras, please drop me a pm.

Cheers!

 

[jaegersing]

The canon range cannot hold up against the other vendors like sony or panasonic in terms of image quality in my opinion which comes from my real world testing.

I would be interested to see some video clips you shot during your testing, that support this statement. Would be very surprised to see XH-A1 lose out unless the lighting is really "special".

 

[chanxj]

I think your statement of "The canon range cannot hold up against the other vendors" doesn't hold up.

Use the z5 for an event, or photo-shoot or fast-paced news gathering. It will fall apart.
I guess it depends on your overall application.
There are so many more films made with the XHA1 compared to the Z5 (Base on several international forums). Plus, there is a huge online community of A1 users compared to the Z5 users.
I'm talking about the over-all best HDV camera, not the sharpest or the neatest - something that you can use for all application and has awesome picture quality - trust me the colors of the Canon is quite exhilarating in the hands of the right person.

Hi Hobbes, as I said, in my opinion

The group of people who were evaluating with me had actually been biased against getting Sony ever since they bought their Z1P due to various factors from performance all the way to ergonomics. Granted though that the Z1P was one of the very early models.

Everyone doing the evaluation with me at that time all chose the Sony Z5 and EX3(with a canon 20x zoom lens) and Canon HV40 in the end. We evaluated options all across the range from panasonic, canon and sony. Image quality was not the only factor we considered.

No doubt the XH A1 does have many films that are filmed on it and I also liked that the guys from canon are very friendly and enthusiastic people. But still my personal opinion sensor and technology wise, I would pick the sony any day.

I was using the Z5 for a week for an event with daily express edit needed and I just simply fell in love with it, not something i would say everytime. Having the MRC-1K allowed me to simultaneously record in HDV on tape and DV on the Compact Flash card, allowing me to have HDV footage for archival, and having SD PAL footage for the daily editing requirements.

 

[chanxj]

I would be interested to see some video clips you shot during your testing, that support this statement. Would be very surprised to see XH-A1 lose out unless the lighting is really "special".

Hi, the video is actually on youtube. Only thing is that its intercut with footage from DVX102 as I was not the only one filming. around 25sec there was a shot of the inside of the bus, which is what I would consider very challenging lighting and the footage held up quite well. Footage showing *edit*raffles place area*edit* is from Z5P too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65fLGhkNulg&feature=player_embedded

 

[jaegersing]

Actually I was hoping you had some comparison footage showing XH-A1 and the other cams you mentioned, to support your earlier comment about Canon image quality. In my experience, all of these cams can be used to take decent video, but each one has its own strengths and weaknesses, and in the end personal preference makes the decision on what to buy.

In my case, it was the image quality of the XH-A1 that made me want to buy it. Even after several years with it, although I have discovered aspects of the cam that I don't like so much, I still consider the image quality to be superb. Certainly I could shoot with th XH-A1 in similar conditions to the clip you posted, without blowing out the highlights so much, because the image is very controllable.

 

[chanxj]

O, I don't have any side by side comparison footage. Our comparison was done in 2 phase. 1 phase was where the camcorders were in studio and pointing at same subject then we reviewed the image quality on 20+" video monitor. The 2nd part was done in the sense that we went around with the camcorders when covering event etc.

We loved the 20x zoom present on both the a1 and the z5p.

We felt that both the xl/xh a1(we had both units) was slightly better than the z1p in difficult lighting scenarios but loses out to the z5p in terms of its dynamic range and noise control. We also preferred the ergonomics of the Z5P.

The final deal winner also lay in the fact that the MRC-1K integrates very well with the z5p so it allows use to aquire in a tapeless medium with less hassle while allowing us to have tape running at the same time. The HVX202 lost out in this section too due to the fact that it does not record HDV but only dv on tape and yet can't capture footages in both format simultaneously. This is very important for us as our workflow will still need to be retained in SD for the next 2 years at least but we need to start building up a library of footages with higher resolution which is closer to hd.

End of the day, its not just the equipment....... Its the storytelling and skill of the operator that matters the most which many of you here have produced works of very high standards which I am still learning from.

 

[jasonjoseph]

Thread starter should state his intended usage for the camera. And budget too. Sometimes i dun see the point of debating over choice of camera or equipment when the thread starter doesn't give us enough info.

I've never used the XHA1 so i won't say anything about that. Actually i used another A1 the Sony HVR-A1E and it was a pretty nice camera for its price range, prosumer with XLR inputs, thread starter might want to look into that A1 if it suits your needs.

What i can tell you is how much i love the Z5 as compared to its earlier predecessors (even from other brands).

Firstly, CMOS, its just amazing, sure the occasional irritating photographer :angel: will come by and spoil your split frame of footage but you can easily eliminate it with clever cutting or even some minor compositing. The latitude CMOS provides you is great, it gives you so much more options in post/colouring. Shooting outdoors with CCD cams is almost unimaginable these days.

Secondly, in built Histogram (not sure if XHA1 has this), I trust the histogram as much as i trust my Army buddy. If it peaks i freak.

Thirdly Progresive! interlaced is old school.

Fourth, practical reason Availability, i think there are alot more rental houses carrying Z5s then other HDV, so if i wanted to do a multicam shoot pairing would be alot easier.

Fifth nice weight distribution, handheld work is pretty easy with the Z5, Z7 on the other hand is pretty heavy.

Theres so much more. Yes the wobble and skew effect are well documented but if you treat the camera well it will deffinately get you great images.

Maybe we should have a shoot off hah!

 

[StaRIdoL]

Thread starter should state his intended usage for the camera. And budget too. Sometimes i dun see the point of debating over choice of camera or equipment when the thread starter doesn't give us enough info...

I must apologise to you and everyone else in this thread for not making my intentions clear with the noob question that I had posted.

It has indeed sparked this interesting yet insightful debate amongst Canon and Sony users/fans in this forum.

I am looking for a professional/slightly pro-sumer all-round video camera that will allow me to film my short films, documentaries, interviews etc...

The recommendations given by everyone in this thread is very useful indeed in allowing me to make the decision on what camera I should be considering.

I thank you all once again for your contributions to this thread.

 

[DXNMedia]

The latitude CMOS provides you is great, it gives you so much more options in post/colouring. Shooting outdoors with CCD cams is almost unimaginable these days.

Thirdly Progresive! interlaced is old school.

I would love to hear your further explanation on why shooting outdoors with CCD cams is unimaginable, and why interlaced is old school?

 

[Faiz]

yah... y u say so jasonjoseph.... wana hear see the reason of your statements