SailFish73
New Member
Was impressed by the 640ws, anyone keen to arrange MO together with Vagabond Mini?
Alienbees
- Thread starter k3nshinx
- Start date
SailFish73 said:
Hi,
I am very interested in Einstein and Vagabond mini. However, I found online that the recycle time at full power and with a fully charged battery is at least 3+ secs.
Given that, are we better off buying Jinbei discovery 600 which has been tested (for the same) and rendered 3 secs recycling time? Not sure what is the difference in image result though but at least there's local support and modifiers are relatively inexpensive compared to major brands.
Thoughts?
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SailFish73
New Member
Good say. I did not exclude Discovery 600 from the consideration list. Anyway, for Einstein, i have yet to thrash out as shall I be getting a 110V version or 220V version. Any advice from Bros?
I've seen the quick comparison by bro kel77. The Discovery 600 seems reasonably good for outdoor general use. http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/threads/886434-Jinbei-Discovery-600-First-Hands-On-Battery-Pack-Shoot-Out
For Einstein, we will need to consider the after sale consumables supplies ie bulb etc, as there is no local dealer yet. For jinbei think there is. Check the PCF website, think the products are in clearing backorder stage, may need to wait for while longer.
Still looking forward to see more review inputs from Bro colourfulfaces.
Do you prefer Discovery to Einstein?
I am considering either Jinbei or Einstein.
Here're my pros & cons of both lights:
Einstein
- Einstein comes with global voltage, i.e. can plug & play anywhere
- If we buy Vagabond Mini from USA (and can save lots of money as PCB USA is very much cheaper than Australia), we can always use a step up transformer when charging
- we can use Vpost USA to ship - about 30-50% than UPS/Fedex
- the Cyber Commander has many features and controls light (power up/down) effectively, especially if you don't have assistants
- for parts issue, we can always order spare supplies in initial purchase. Support can be done remotely but not as effective as having local support
Jinbei
- global charging unit (accord to Kenneth - anyone can verify?)
- local support & parts availability
- slightly faster recycle time than Einstein plus Vagabond Mini combo
- anyone has any idea on the consistency of color temperature and quality of their modifiers (particularly softboxes and beauty dish)?
- is there anything in the market like cyber commander that can work with Jinbei?
Here're my pros & cons of both lights:
Einstein
- Einstein comes with global voltage, i.e. can plug & play anywhere
- If we buy Vagabond Mini from USA (and can save lots of money as PCB USA is very much cheaper than Australia), we can always use a step up transformer when charging
- we can use Vpost USA to ship - about 30-50% than UPS/Fedex
- the Cyber Commander has many features and controls light (power up/down) effectively, especially if you don't have assistants
- for parts issue, we can always order spare supplies in initial purchase. Support can be done remotely but not as effective as having local support
Jinbei
- global charging unit (accord to Kenneth - anyone can verify?)
- local support & parts availability
- slightly faster recycle time than Einstein plus Vagabond Mini combo
- anyone has any idea on the consistency of color temperature and quality of their modifiers (particularly softboxes and beauty dish)?
- is there anything in the market like cyber commander that can work with Jinbei?
The Einstein and Discovery are very different equipment. Einstein is definitely more of a studio monoblock which can be use fairly easily for location use with the addition of the vagaboard mini. But it is definitely not as portable as the discovery, and I certainly wont try to ask my assistant to boom overhead for as top light handheld; but with the discovery, you can.
Whereas the discovery is definitely a location light. You will find the modelling light and recycling spend lacking during studio usage.
Horses for courses. Ask yourself where you would shoot more often and consider the tradeoffs.
Whereas the discovery is definitely a location light. You will find the modelling light and recycling spend lacking during studio usage.
Horses for courses. Ask yourself where you would shoot more often and consider the tradeoffs.
SailFish73
New Member
@iamjv22 - thanks for tabulating the data!! 
@beachbum - mind to share your experience in 'You will find the modelling light and recycling spend lacking during studio usage.'
I'm kind of confused. Thought Einstein 640 is compact in size, and should be portable for location use? But love Discovery that comes with hard suitcase, neat for keeping and when in moving around.
@beachbum - mind to share your experience in 'You will find the modelling light and recycling spend lacking during studio usage.'
I'm kind of confused. Thought Einstein 640 is compact in size, and should be portable for location use? But love Discovery that comes with hard suitcase, neat for keeping and when in moving around.
colourfulfaces
Senior Member
Sorry guys, i have not fully tested the light yet (just tested it outdoor during the weekends shoot) but you can read more details on the Einstein here.. http://www.paulcbuff.com/pcb2009/e640detail.html
To clarify whether you can purchase from USA, the answer is NO unless you have registered with them before 2009.
If you want to purchase from USA, you need a US credit card. Therefore using Vpost is no use in this case.
The few advantages of the Einstein
1. You can use this light indoor (Studio) as well as outdoor due to the 8 stops. (1/1 to 1/256).
2. The mini battery life is about 400shots which is good.
3. The color consistency of +-50K which is super good taking into consideration that Profoto is +-30k.
4. I believe the flash duration is much faster than the Jinbei and this is impoortant if you want to freeze motion. Einstein has 2 mode, colour mode for colour consistency or action mode for fast flash duration.
5. They have the powerful cyber commander which you can controll all the aspect of the einstein remotely.
6. I can fit my 1D with 24-70 & 70-200 with the mini, einstein, cables and the 7inches reflector into my Thinktank Airport Takeoff roller bag.
The disadvantages i discovered so far is probably the size of the einstein, it is not as compact as the discovery but it is definitely much smaller than monobloc. It is also lighter than my 4 flash setup.
Recycle time is at 3s with mini for 640ws is abit slow but using AC, it is 1.7s
After sales service and parts is not easy though they have 2 years warranty.
Each brands have their pros and cons and it based on what you need and your preferences to decide which is more suitable.
To clarify whether you can purchase from USA, the answer is NO unless you have registered with them before 2009.
If you want to purchase from USA, you need a US credit card. Therefore using Vpost is no use in this case.
The few advantages of the Einstein
1. You can use this light indoor (Studio) as well as outdoor due to the 8 stops. (1/1 to 1/256).
2. The mini battery life is about 400shots which is good.
3. The color consistency of +-50K which is super good taking into consideration that Profoto is +-30k.
4. I believe the flash duration is much faster than the Jinbei and this is impoortant if you want to freeze motion. Einstein has 2 mode, colour mode for colour consistency or action mode for fast flash duration.
5. They have the powerful cyber commander which you can controll all the aspect of the einstein remotely.
6. I can fit my 1D with 24-70 & 70-200 with the mini, einstein, cables and the 7inches reflector into my Thinktank Airport Takeoff roller bag.
The disadvantages i discovered so far is probably the size of the einstein, it is not as compact as the discovery but it is definitely much smaller than monobloc. It is also lighter than my 4 flash setup.
Recycle time is at 3s with mini for 640ws is abit slow but using AC, it is 1.7s
After sales service and parts is not easy though they have 2 years warranty.
Each brands have their pros and cons and it based on what you need and your preferences to decide which is more suitable.
kel77
Senior Member
Just a thing to add since there's some talk related to the Jinbei Discovery 600. I find the continuous LED light on the Discovery extremely useful for night shoots to allow your cameras to achieve focus. I'm a Quadra user so that feature is godbless. You can't have that turned on for other strobes for too long without draining too much of the battery.
Thanks to all for your helpful input. I decided to go with Discovery DC-600 since there's local support, and I will be using it mainly for on location shoot. The LED light for night shoot is certainly a bonus! We'll have to see about the color temperature consistency once I get my hands on the equipment.
colourfulfaces
Senior Member
For me to overcome the modeling light issue, i just mount the Z96 led light on the light stand. In my case, i mount it inside the apollo softbox which i switch on thru out the shoot.
I am also thinking of getting a lower power modeling bulb (50w) to replace the current 250w bulb.
I guess if anyone who are looking for portable yet powerful strobe but not particular with colour consistency then the discovery might be better.
If you are looking for flexible strobe which can be use indoor via AC and outdoor with mini, and the 8 stops of flash variability but dun mind a bigger setup, then the einstein is more suitable.
I am also thinking of getting a lower power modeling bulb (50w) to replace the current 250w bulb.
I guess if anyone who are looking for portable yet powerful strobe but not particular with colour consistency then the discovery might be better.
If you are looking for flexible strobe which can be use indoor via AC and outdoor with mini, and the 8 stops of flash variability but dun mind a bigger setup, then the einstein is more suitable.
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george671
New Member
:think:Has anyone had or seen color problems shooting with the Discovery setup ???
Cheers
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typical battery operated pack/lamp combo has very weak modeling lamp e.g. 50w. accept for the Profoto ProB2 and Broncolor Verso range. So when you try to use the modeling lamp with huge softboxes, you will find that it is pretty weak, especially if you mix and match and work with other studio strobes that typically uses 250w halogen lamps. You will not be able to "see" the modeling effect well.
Also I find that 3sec for full power recycling to be too slow, especially if you are to work with models or children. But that is for me.
Like i said, depends on where you shoot more. If you do a lot of outdoor stuff and need the portability - the discovery will be more suitable. If you shoot good mix of location&studio work, the Einsteins with vaga mini will be more versatile.
having said that, i do find the Einsteins and AB system to be a very attractive system at the US price levels.
Also I find that 3sec for full power recycling to be too slow, especially if you are to work with models or children. But that is for me.
Like i said, depends on where you shoot more. If you do a lot of outdoor stuff and need the portability - the discovery will be more suitable. If you shoot good mix of location&studio work, the Einsteins with vaga mini will be more versatile.
having said that, i do find the Einsteins and AB system to be a very attractive system at the US price levels.
@iamjv22 - thanks for tabulating the data!!
@beachbum - mind to share your experience in 'You will find the modelling light and recycling spend lacking during studio usage.'
I'm kind of confused. Thought Einstein 640 is compact in size, and should be portable for location use? But love Discovery that comes with hard suitcase, neat for keeping and when in moving around.
afiend
Senior Member
I think its unfair to insinuate that the Discovery system has poor colour consistency, without any documented evidence.
Probably the only known Discovery 600 unit in Singapore is currently in our possession, anyone who has doubts about its consistency in exposure or colour can approach me to try it out.
A test has also been done by some users, you can also seek their opinion if anyone doubts the colour consistency.
For those who are unsure what is the 'Discovery', here is THE LINK.
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SailFish73
New Member
Looks good. Thanks to all Bros for advice....
Think ended up, i might be getting both... perhaps to get the DC600 first. But noticed no stock...
@afiend - please let us know once the stock is in. Thx.
Think ended up, i might be getting both... perhaps to get the DC600 first. But noticed no stock...
@afiend - please let us know once the stock is in. Thx.
afiend
Senior Member
New stocks should be arriving next week.
For further updates, here is our facebook page : https://www.facebook.com/TheStudioOutfitters
george671
New Member
I think its unfair to insinuate that the Discovery system has poor colour consistency, without any documented evidence.
Probably the only known Discovery 600 unit in Singapore is currently in our possession, anyone who has doubts about its consistency in exposure or colour can approach me to try it out.
A test has also been done by some users, you can also seek their opinion if anyone doubts the colour consistency.
For those who are unsure what is the 'Discovery', here is THE LINK.
That's why I raised the question, as I see no reason to doubt the Discovery as well, but some folks always like to put in little tidbits of mis-information...:bsmilie::bsmilie:
I'm planning on buying at least one Discovery set on my next trip to Singapore as well..
Cheers
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colourfulfaces
Senior Member
Pardon me if i am stating the wrong information. I am not saying that the discovery is having poor colour consistency but it will should have poorer consistency than the AB Einstein. The discovery is a very good products which many people are waiting for. Small, affordable, powerful etc, etc
There should be reviews of the discovery soon on the internet.
AB previous version AB800, AB1600 are also having color consistency which every one should be awared of. Only their current Einstein have very good control of the temp and color.
So far the einstein has not failed me and might be getting the Mola or the Kacey beauty dish to go with it..
I hope to do a comparison with the Profoto Acute B2 600 soon..
There should be reviews of the discovery soon on the internet.
AB previous version AB800, AB1600 are also having color consistency which every one should be awared of. Only their current Einstein have very good control of the temp and color.
So far the einstein has not failed me and might be getting the Mola or the Kacey beauty dish to go with it..
I hope to do a comparison with the Profoto Acute B2 600 soon..
george671
New Member
No harm done...most flashes have some color issues. But in real world work, its not as problematic as you might think....When you think about it, the little shoe mount flashes that every ones uses can vary quite a bit from flash to flash, but I bet no one is complaining, as its hard to beat their size and portability...I think we spend way to much time worrying about specs.Cheers
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SailFish73
New Member
hi Bro colourfulfaces, mind to share your mini is with output 110V ? or 220V?
iamryansaw
Member
I've been using Alienbees for awhile now.
I've got the AB1600 and the AB400.
Use them along with the Vagabond Mini.
The AB light units are really compact and relatively light. The controls at the back, (as you guys should have seen on youtube), are really easy and simple to understand and control.
The vagabond mini is so ridiculously light i love it. Love the USB port that allows you to charge you USB devices like handphones/mps.
overall i think Paul C Buff makes really good products.
Pity you'll need an American-registered credit card to purchase from Paul C Buff USA, which saves a lot compared to Paul C Buff Aussie.
I've got the AB1600 and the AB400.
Use them along with the Vagabond Mini.
The AB light units are really compact and relatively light. The controls at the back, (as you guys should have seen on youtube), are really easy and simple to understand and control.
The vagabond mini is so ridiculously light i love it. Love the USB port that allows you to charge you USB devices like handphones/mps.
overall i think Paul C Buff makes really good products.
Pity you'll need an American-registered credit card to purchase from Paul C Buff USA, which saves a lot compared to Paul C Buff Aussie.
