40th national birthday - does it mean anything to you?

[Zerstorer]

How? Easy, read it as it is, not more. By not lumping 'all' criticism against the system into anti-Singapore semantics.

Did I? You haven't answered my question above. What is your stand?

But I am not surprise at your reaction on such. Even our much respected MM Lee took so many years in politics to realise that he needed a 'maverick' to caution against the failing of the system before its too late. It will take even longer time for people to realise that speaking out against doesn't necessary meant that you don't love or are against the country.

Now, you seem to be agreeing with me. If that is indeed your stand, I'm actually in full agreement. Remember what I said about putting the 2 as separate entities? Then would you consider taking your little red/white flag out to wave in celebration of everyone's own individual achievements?

Just a sidenote: A person who is just unhappy and rails at everything without stating clearly his dissatisfaction is certainly far from being a maverick. Rather he is just a another voice in a mob.

Mavericks hold their own opinions, do not take any partisan stand and has different insights into issues that others may miss.

Think about it this way, you think those people who question the way Singapore are run seriously out to destroy her? That those people wanted Singapore to fall? Everything against will deem as anti-Singapore.

Nope, I didn't say this. I think I stated that clearly enough.

 

[Zerstorer]

And again assumption on your portion that I am confused. Did anytime of point did I mentioned that I am confused? I am surprise at your liberality on judging other of which they are not, haha! :bsmilie:

Can you then explain this:its not merely the fault of those at the top. Its all those down the chain who failed to do what is right

Problems along the whole chain are the responsibility of all. Not ONE individual, not the top but ALL. against the individuals compound and escalation allow you to blame all? But how can you blame all when 'each individual acts on his own self-interest and fails to do what is right'??

Again I am amazed by the method of interpretation of such, even at your own statement.

Try to read my entire post instead of quoting a sentence out of context.

Note what I said in the other paragraph. It is the fault of ALL who didn't do things right.

I would have thought that my analogy above would have put it clear.

In any case, I'm tiring of this. Have a good day.

 

[Hommie]

Did I? You haven't answered my question above. What is your stand?

Mine? Both.

Now, you seem to be agreeing with me. If that is indeed your stand, I'm actually in full agreement. Remember what I said about putting the 2 as separate entities? Then would you consider taking your little red/white flag out to wave in celebration of everyone's own individual achievements?

If its a celebration of individual achievements, then why use the flag? Sounds like a 'self percived interest', hehe....

Just a sidenote: A person who is just unhappy and rails at everything without stating clearly his dissatisfaction is certainly far from being a maverick. Rather he is just a another voice in a mob.

Mavericks hold their own opinions, do not take any partisan stand and has different insights into issues that others may miss.

You sound like a happy mob, haha! Just a note, what you percive is exactly that in you own mind. Who keep the standard of how a maverich stands? Not you I hope.....

 

[Hommie]

Try to read my entire post instead of quoting a sentence out of context.
Note what I said in the other paragraph. It is the fault of ALL who didn't do things right.
I would have thought that my analogy above would have put it clear.
In any case, I'm tiring of this. Have a good day.

Yeah, me too*Yawn!*.
I need not use portions, your flawed statement speaks for themselves and contradict itself. You use what you wanted in an analogy against your own. I didn't do anything other than pointing it out..... :bsmilie:

 

[Zerstorer]

Mine? Both.
If its a celebration of individual achievements, then why use the flag? Sounds like a 'self percived interest', hehe....

Haha, what does the flag signify to you?

You sound like a happy mob, haha! Just a note, what you percive is exactly that in you own mind. Who keep the standard of how a maverich stands? Not you I hope.....

Of course, that is my view and as I've mentioned previously you are free to state yours. I'm free to disagree with you and you are free to disagree with me.

I'll just leave it as that and retire from this debate.
Do state your views rather than to just pick on mine, as I haven't heard your side yet.
Don't worry, I won't even reply to it.

 

[Zerstorer]

Yeah, me too*Yawn!*.
I need not use portions, your flawed statement speaks for themselves and contradict itself. You use what you wanted in an analogy against your own. I didn't do anything other than pointing it out..... :bsmilie:

Haha, now you are the arbiter of that? Irony I see.

 

[Hommie]

Haha, what does the flag signify to you?

Its a flag of Singapore. :bsmilie:

Of course, that is my view and as I've mentioned previously you are free to state yours. I'm free to disagree with you and you are free to disagree with me.

Just like you signify(Is that) me to whiner, mob etc. I am pretty civil compared to you.

I'll just leave it as that and retire from this debate.
Do state your views rather than to just pick on mine, as I haven't heard your side yet.
Don't worry, I won't even reply to it.

I already did, since yesterday but it seems that you are too pre-occupied by your own views. Doesn't matter if you reply or not cause I never back down on a view once I take it up.

 

[Hommie]

Haha, now you are the arbiter of that? Irony I see.

Self -percieved notion of irony by you?? Hehe....:bsmilie:

 

[dkw]

Hey Hommie,
I can understand your original point regarding the separation of state from party, although I totally disagree with it. Political leaders can and are held responsible for their actions and words and have been successfully litigated against before. If Singaporeans are naive (or should I say dumb) enough to believe any attempt by the ruling party to link the fortunes of the party with that of the nation, then I guess they deserve the 'garment' they get!

You mention about those who voice opinions against garment policies being viewed as against the nation. Have you even tried it? Tell you what, some of us have, and as far as I know nobody has labelled us as enemies of the state. Even Catherine Lim is alive and well and hasn't been declared bankrupt, has she? If others choose to believe in shadowy phantoms then that is their own issue to deal with.

I guess it is all a matter of perception, and is usual for this kind of debate, "east is east and west is west, and never the twain shall meet."

 

[Zerstorer]

Self -percieved notion of irony by you?? Hehe....:bsmilie:

Of course! As is the case of your perceived "uncivility".

It's all in the mind, or as I've stated elsewhere, emotional baggage.

 

[Hommie]

I think it in yours, you think its in mine, haha..

 

[Zerstorer]

I think it in yours, you think its in mine, haha..

That I most certainly agree. Have a nice weekend.

 

[Hommie]

Of course! As is the case of your perceived "uncivility".

It's all in the mind, or as I've stated elsewhere, emotional baggage.

Actually I did state prove that you mentioned, 'whiner' or 'mob' etc so it is not as 'percived' as you think. If you think I did likewise, kindly point out part to which in statements that I have wrote that is less than civil.

 

[Hommie]

You mention about those who voice opinions against garment policies being viewed as against the nation. Have you even tried it? Tell you what, some of us have, and as far as I know nobody has labelled us as enemies of the state. Even Catherine Lim is alive and well and hasn't been declared bankrupt, has she? If others choose to believe in shadowy phantoms then that is their own issue to deal with.

I guess it is all a matter of perception, and is usual for this kind of debate, "east is east and west is west, and never the twain shall meet."

Catherine Lim is too public a figure to prosecute to risk a very possible media disaster. In fact the very thing that she challenges the garment is injustice to the outspokens that a garment prosecution will play straight into her hands. Beside, if I name names out would you gurantee me that someone wouldn't show me what the law of ISA meant? Heard of someone under house arrest for couple of decades?

You can continue to live in your white fluffy clouds while I will face my own reality in various shades of grey and all the colour involved.

 

[Sjourn]

I :heart: SG, but SG don't :bheart: me....

Happy B Day SG, though I missed a number of years with you, I've seen you grown into a big and powerful nation. Please take care of your health and not overburn the reach for a "perfect" no.1 everything.., you seemed to be exhausted since I last saw you, I am sorry I had to change mine diet of grass as I was getting too lean from SG drying grass menu, I don't mean to leave you but someone has to put food on the table as I started off with nothing.

I'm not angry if tt you called me a deserter and all that sorts, but somehow I needed a breather from all your ambitions and have a fun filled loving life besides the difficulties of survival and the dollar chasing games you like to play. I hope to one day come back to you and we can sip tea in the afternoon and chat about the old times and what it would be like if I had stayed on.....

 

[dkw]

Catherine Lim is too public a figure to prosecute to risk a very possible media disaster. In fact the very thing that she challenges the garment is injustice to the outspokens that a garment prosecution will play straight into her hands. Beside, if I name names out would you gurantee me that someone wouldn't show me what the law of ISA meant? Heard of someone under house arrest for couple of decades?

You can continue to live in your white fluffy clouds while I will face my own reality in various shades of grey and all the colour involved.

Ha ha, you must think I have angel wings and playing on a harp or something.

Your first statement reveals the total extent of your bias. If the intent of the 'garment' is to quell dissent, as you and the others have argued, then what better way than to quash a prominent critic? By your reasoning, whatever the 'garment' does, it cannot win, damned if they do and damned if they don't, right? That's why I say there is no real point in debating this, you have your bias and I......have a well-reasoned position. Rest assured, with family and job, I'm very much grounded in reality. The reality being that on this small island, each of us matters (for intellectual contribution, not just grunt work) and the 'garment' is not so dumb that they don't realise that fact.

Take care Hommie, its always interesting talking to you.

 

[Hommie]

Ha ha, you must think I have angel wings and playing on a harp or something.

Your first statement reveals the total extent of your bias. If the intent of the 'garment' is to quell dissent, as you and the others have argued, then what better way than to quash a prominent critic? By your reasoning, whatever the 'garment' does, it cannot win, damned if they do and damned if they don't, right? That's why I say there is no real point in debating this, you have your bias and I......have a well-reasoned position. Rest assured, with family and job, I'm very much grounded in reality. The reality being that on this small island, each of us matters (for intellectual contribution, not just grunt work) and the 'garment' is not so dumb that they don't realise that fact.

Take care Hommie, its always interesting talking to you.

Ahhh, our garment have much better method of bring down a leader(of sorts) than our neighbour's crude high profile sodomization case. You won't want to know the quiet yet effective methods. The differences between our arguments is that you have an impression of bias on my part unless I bring prove so devastating that it speak for itself, but no I won't and I can't yet I know.

Perhaps its a blessing to be in head up fluffy white clouds, take care of yourself too that you never step on the wrong side and face the darker clouds. Then the clouds are much whiter nowsday.......

 

[Hommie]

I :heart: SG, but SG don't :bheart: me....

Happy B Day SG, though I missed a number of years with you, I've seen you grown into a big and powerful nation. Please take care of your health and not overburn the reach for a "perfect" no.1 everything.., you seemed to be exhausted since I last saw you, I am sorry I had to change mine diet of grass as I was getting too lean from SG drying grass menu, I don't mean to leave you but someone has to put food on the table as I started off with nothing.

I'm not angry if tt you called me a deserter and all that sorts, but somehow I needed a breather from all your ambitions and have a fun filled loving life besides the difficulties of survival and the dollar chasing games you like to play. I hope to one day come back to you and we can sip tea in the afternoon and chat about the old times and what it would be like if I had stayed on.....

Well said! :thumbsup:

 

[Zerstorer]

Actually I did state prove that you mentioned, 'whiner' or 'mob' etc so it is not as 'percived' as you think. If you think I did likewise, kindly point out part to which in statements that I have wrote that is less than civil.

"whiner" wasn't targetted at you at all, that I can assure you. As for the "mob" analogy, it was a statement in a 3rd party sense used to illustrate a position. I don't think it was uncivil in any sense, such rejoinders are common in debates and if you deem it untrue, one needn't take offence.

No doubt you have in been civil throughout, but I do sense some animosity towards me specifically after I made a post in another thread.

 

[huaiwei]

HDB - buy one and work the rest of our lives to pay for one...

MAJULAH SINGAPURA!

You can always choose to buy private property yah noe?