40D Images

[coldfish]

Hi Faisalee,

Sounds like a good reason to try something new and I'm sure you are going to like Canon's fabulous reproduction of green

I decided for the Canon system because of its more intuitive handling (just MHO here) and yes, very nice noise control at higher ISOs.

I'm sure given time you are going to like this camera. :angel:

 

[zj2000]

Hi, there are a lot of posts and I haven't had time to read through all of them but from what I gather you're shooting at +2 Contrast, +2 Sharpness +1 Saturation? The problem I think is due to the +2 Contrast, I tried +2 of every parameter when i first got my canon and the results were far from impressive. Turn down the contrast to 0 and you should see much better results. I shoot only at 0 for all parameters and use CS2 to batch process all my shoots to apply USM, adjust contrast and increase saturation

 

[faisalee]

Hi, there are a lot of posts and I haven't had time to read through all of them but from what I gather you're shooting at +2 Contrast, +2 Sharpness +1 Saturation? The problem I think is due to the +2 Contrast, I tried +2 of every parameter when i first got my canon and the results were far from impressive. Turn down the contrast to 0 and you should see much better results. I shoot only at 0 for all parameters and use CS2 to batch process all my shoots to apply USM, adjust contrast and increase saturation

Thank you brother for the hint. I actually tried ZERO every thing "Standard" setting but the results were :dunno:

May be I need to do some work in PS after all :bsmilie:

 

[metalgear]

i moved from 20d to 40d and didnt see any issues with worse off colours.
the wider dynamic range is obvious - less blown out whites
have always used photoshop to print to r800 and looking at recent prints, its an observable update if you tried.

the lcd on the 40d has to be taken as "indicative". use the histogram and expose to the right and you'll see very good colours. otherwise if you shoot raw punch up exposure at raw conversion may work as well.

never tried jpegs or in camera processing - because I feel the 40d is an advanced amateur or even pro-level tool, and meant to shoot that way. though all the gadgetry functions exists for novices, the 40d is an excellent tool in the right hands.

 

[blurboiboi]

faisalee i share the same thoughts as you...
coming from an olympus system... currently using a 40D + 17-55... the colors from my old oly are a couple of notch better than the 40D's.... even my gf at one look complained how come my more expensive system produces so dull and flat pics... some how i have already started to miss my old oly system already.... alot of tweaking is required for me which is pretty tiring and time consuming...
any bros out there have any tips??...

 

[akagi07]

serious? the sensor of 40D had issue ah?
Or was this a color calibration issue?
was saving now and planning for 40D in mths to come...

 

[doodah]

I cannot understand the issue with colors that people have.

Do you ONLY shoot jpeg?

In good day light, canon jpeg colors are MOST accurate (see Imaging Resource). Pentax/Olympus/Nikon have much poorer color accuracy: everything is over bright, contrasty and saturated. Shifted colors may be pleasing to the eye but that's not what you actually see.

In addition, you have so many different picture styles available. And everything can be tweaked. It's just inconceivable how anyone can still complain.

You want plain and dull? I shoot with Faithful picture style, contrast = -4, sharpness = 3, saturation = 0. :bsmilie: But I use RAW and compare the colors with the embedded jpegs to ensure I do not oversaturate the colors.

Another thing: sensor has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with colors. It's the choice of color scheme chosen by manufacturer or the RAW converter you use.

Please try to get out of the film mode of thinking. You are now in the digital era, in case you have not noticed. :bsmilie:

 

[arsene]

I have been using a Canon 20D for the past 4 years. Compared to a Nikon, I would say that the Nikon produces more saturated colours, which if it is to your liking, it can be re-produced post-production using Lightroom or PS.

I prefer to use software rather than the camera settings to adjust the colours, contrast etc. Easier to see & do the adjustments on a bigger screen. Nowadays I shoot raw and I believe that the in-camera settings does not affect raw images - correct me if I am wrong.

 

[james]

faisalee i share the same thoughts as you...
coming from an olympus system... currently using a 40D + 17-55... the colors from my old oly are a couple of notch better than the 40D's.... even my gf at one look complained how come my more expensive system produces so dull and flat pics... some how i have already started to miss my old oly system already.... alot of tweaking is required for me which is pretty tiring and time consuming...
any bros out there have any tips??...

Hi, i too share the same thoughts. I was comparing pictures from my old Nikon prosumer and canon, the image taken by Nikon's much more better in term of colours. However, I did not watch out the settings. I will try again and see how.

I am also verifying this point:

I cannot understand the issue with colors that people have.

Do you ONLY shoot jpeg?

In good day light, canon jpeg colors are MOST accurate (see Imaging Resource). Pentax/Olympus/Nikon have much poorer color accuracy: everything is over bright, contrasty and saturated. Shifted colors may be pleasing to the eye but that's not what you actually see.

In addition, you have so many different picture styles available. And everything can be tweaked. It's just inconceivable how anyone can still complain.

You want plain and dull? I shoot with Faithful picture style, contrast = -4, sharpness = 3, saturation = 0. :bsmilie: But I use RAW and compare the colors with the embedded jpegs to ensure I do not oversaturate the colors.

Another thing: sensor has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with colors. It's the choice of color scheme chosen by manufacturer or the RAW converter you use.

Please try to get out of the film mode of thinking. You are now in the digital era, in case you have not noticed. :bsmilie:

Hi, bro, thanks for info.
In that case, does that mean we have only 2 choices to achieve the more desired colour (beside the default settings by manufacturer):
1) Filter
2) PS
Ps: I do really understand this part, "You are now in the digital era, in case you have not noticed."

 

[Russ]

I have used a Canon DSLR for a while now. 300D now 40D. To me, Canon is much more faithful in colour reproduction than what I see from other manufacturers. It does not shout WOW at you like some do.

I am also an audiophile and I like my sound system to sound as real as possible - 95% of people think my system is boring, because it does not have a boomy boosted bass and ear splitting boosted treble - read unnatural....

Canon's picture philosophy is a bit like that.

 

[LittleWolf]

I have sent the camera with my kit lens back to CSC to calibrate. The colours are slightly more accurate after calibration but still retain the dull and lifeless tone.

There is nothing about "colour accuracy" that could be calibrated at the service centre, so any perceived changes must be due to the placebo effect.

Outdoor wise, the best picture is usually taken with one stop increment but there is tendency to lose some highlights.

"Tendency to lose highlights" = overexposure. So the camera metering may be ok after all?

I have tried with both highlight tone priority on and off and with different picture styles. Now I tend to switch off tone priority and maintain a faithful style setting till I figure out what is wrong with my 40D.

According to Canon, the "faithful" style aims for accurate colour reproduction (i.e., no artificially increased saturation). If you want vivid colours, it does just the opposite.

One hint for better colours: don't rely on Canon's automatic white balance.

 

[cosycatus]

Doodah, fujifilm actually did a famous survey in the past. They show people one set of photos that have all the colors boosted and one set which is natural. Seemed that everyone LOVEd those with boosted colors....

Seriously, i do not understand the thing about having accurate color accuracy. I rather have good color than accurate color. Do you think you L lens produce things in natural color? Nooooo...
Do note that the human mind absorb things in relative. Ie, that blue might not be entirely blue, but if placed next to a thing that is somewhat green, that blue is still blue...

And yes, sensor has verything to do with colors. Ever use Fujifilm? Ever use a 5D and compare with a 20d? For canon, it's the more of the processor. Digic 3 is not to my liking. i still prefer digi 2, which is why i am using a 20D. One look from the LCD and i know how the pic is on screen.

And yes, from your last statment, i presume you dun shoot film much? Film gives u duller colors than the digital cameras of today. We use to get similar vibrancy only by using slide films...

I cannot understand the issue with colors that people have.

Do you ONLY shoot jpeg?

In good day light, canon jpeg colors are MOST accurate (see Imaging Resource). Pentax/Olympus/Nikon have much poorer color accuracy: everything is over bright, contrasty and saturated. Shifted colors may be pleasing to the eye but that's not what you actually see.

In addition, you have so many different picture styles available. And everything can be tweaked. It's just inconceivable how anyone can still complain.

You want plain and dull? I shoot with Faithful picture style, contrast = -4, sharpness = 3, saturation = 0. :bsmilie: But I use RAW and compare the colors with the embedded jpegs to ensure I do not oversaturate the colors.

Another thing: sensor has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with colors. It's the choice of color scheme chosen by manufacturer or the RAW converter you use.

Please try to get out of the film mode of thinking. You are now in the digital era, in case you have not noticed. :bsmilie:

 

[LittleWolf]

Doodah, fujifilm actually did a famous survey in the past. They show people one set of photos that have all the colors boosted and one set which is natural. Seemed that everyone LOVEd those with boosted colors....

Hehe... you could probably also find that a lot of people prefer food drowned in ketchup and mayonnaise, their bread soft as a sponge and with tons of sugar, and the Disneyland rendition of the Black Forest is much more preferable than the real thing. Some choice is always good ...

Seriously, i do not understand the thing about having accurate color accuracy. I rather have good color than accurate color.

What is "good colour" to you may be awful to someone else. If you have a standard that can be colorimetrically quantified and doesn't include arbitrary choices like "more/less saturated", that at least gives a well-defined common starting point to work from. (I.e. what Canon calls "neutral/faithful.) As for the other "styles", I believe you can create your own and download them to the camera with the included software.

 

[doodah]

Seemed that everyone LOVEd those with boosted colors....

That's why compact digicams have boosted colors. It's for the man on the street.

Do you think you L lens produce things in natural color? Nooooo...

Wrong. Canon boasts of color FIDELITY from L lenses, NOT boosted colors. If you have studied basic optics, you'll immediately know that it is highly DESIRABLE that the transmission characteristics of lenses is UNIFORM across the spectrum. You do NOT want color tinge. And, btw, lenses do NOT BOOST colors. L lenses are characterized by: resolution, contrast and color REPRODUCTION, among other things.

From pg 232 of EF Lens Work III: "Color balance: the color reproduction fidelity of a photo taken through a lens compared to the original subject."

And yes, sensor has verything to do with colors. Ever use Fujifilm? Ever use a 5D and compare with a 20d? For canon, it's the more of the processor. Digic 3 is not to my liking. i still prefer digi 2, which is why i am using a 20D.

More rubbish. Canon and Sony use standard Bayer sensors (2G, 1R, 1B) so they all have the same color response. There is NO difference between the Canon 5D and 20D sensors in terms of colors. You can test that by taking the same RAW pic with these cameras and use a NEUTRAL RAW converter (say, ACR) and you'll NOT see any difference in terms of colors as long as you keep the color temperature etc the same. Fujifilm and Foven use sensors with different designs altogether.

Film gives u duller colors than the digital cameras of today.

Even more RUBBISH. I presume you have NEVER used or seen prints from Velvia films, as opposed to reduced saturation prints from Provia films. The former give such cartoonish colors that even today's digital cameras have a hard time catching up. :bsmilie: Velvia films however are extremely popular with landscape photographers.

Man, you guys should go read the 5-Apr-2008 issue of Amateur Photographer. It'll teach you something about the loveliness of color fidelity. :bsmilie:

 

[LittleWolf]

Canon and Sony use standard Bayer sensors (2G, 1R, 1B) so they all have the same color response.

The colour response is not determined by the layout of the Bayer pattern. It depends on 1) the spectral sensitivity of the underlying semiconductor device, 2) the spectral characteristics of the microscopic colour filters over every pixel, and 3) the spectral characteristic of additional filters, such as IR blocking and anti-alias filters. In 2) and 3) there is room for considerable variation.

Canon's own raw processing software ships with a large number of colour profiles for different cameras/sensor types. The selection is handled transparently by the software, so the casual user usually doesn't notice.

 

[doodah]

The colour response is not determined by the layout of the Bayer pattern. It depends on 1) the spectral sensitivity of the underlying semiconductor device, 2) the spectral characteristics of the microscopic colour filters over every pixel, and 3) the spectral characteristic of additional filters, such as IR blocking and anti-alias filters. In 2) and 3) there is room for considerable variation.

You are right, there is room for considerable variation. But ultimately, with suitable post-processing (either in-camera or after the capture), such differences can easily be minimized. This is why I do not understand this obsession with colors in the digital age.

 

[MarkTan89]

I also had a similar experience when i upgraded my 30D to 40D. There was something wrong with the colours in the 40D which i can't totally describe. Probably because of the different (new) sensor? I don't know. But i wasn't pleased with that cam so i sold it.

I found the colours on my 40D not accurate when I first got the camera but after fiddling with some custom picture style settings and white balance, it was nearly spot on. Granted, sometimes the AWB does get tricked and renders weird looking colours but that's like 5-10% of the time and always under low-light.

 

[nightpiper]

my personal opinion for the 40D is that the red tends to oversat faster than blue & green (even in Faithful mode). any other gritty is more of personal preference & knowledge of using it. If u like punchy colours or prefer colour accuracy, there's nothing wrong. The rationale behind accurate colour is so that u can tweak it to whatever look u want, important thing behind this process is CONTROL. Users who doesn't like fiddling will prob want punchy look straight out from cam. Like a boom box. If its already has so much bass boosted, how much bass do u reduce if u want it be juz 3.5dB higher then neutral? U wudn't know but juz keep fiddling untill u r satisfied. On the other hand, if everything is at neutral to begin with (think graphic eq style) then its a lot easier to adjust the music to ur mood.

my understanding of sensor is that they are ALL COLOUR BLIND. What gives its colour is the RGB filters in front of it. Variants u ask? Well there r standards governing what value represents pure red, pure blue & pure green, much like monitor calibrators. When u ask a graphics designer what is panetone, thats exactly what a panetone does, represent a given colour accurately so when printing, the colors is exactly what the client wants (esp. company logos). U wudn't want ur company red logo to turn out pinkish right? So u specify the colour code of that specific red. Short & simple.

All these colour pref manufacturers adopt r more from the algo they developed based on certain engineering decisions.

So in short, if u dun like the Canon way of handling colours, juz choose another brand which suits ur taste. Its an open market out there.

here's one pic i took which i think the colour is ok, exposure set at +1/3 permanently, i do that to all my cams from past to present. WB also fixed, never trusted the AWB. YMMV

 

[viclam]

Was looking at the Bali pictures... thought they look fine to me. very natural. Perhaps it has got to do with your monitor calibration. I was having trouble with my camera colours before the calibration. Now much better...

If you want colours that 'jump out' at you, then you'll have to set the colour saturation and sharpness on the camera.

 

[hehahe]

To start with, I am sure its the User's fault and "The" user has not RTFM yet :embrass:

Just got my first Canon (40D + 17-55 f2.8 IS) great gear!

I have not had the time to play with it outside but all my indoor test shots turn out very dull and dark. I have been shooting handheld with ISO 200 to 400 mostly but seems like its Under exposing by at least 0.5 to 0.75 stops

My settings are Custom Image Parameters with +2 Contrast, +2 Sharpness +1 Saturation

I did not download the pics to my Laptop yet so Not sure how it actually look like hehe...

Could it be the LCD screen of the 40D?

I will try to upload the pictures later tonight and post here. Meanwhile any suggestion on parameters or settings that you normally use on your 40D will be highly appreciated.

Previously I have used D200 and a Pentax K20D (Colors and exposure is amazing for the Pentax) where the D200 needs some tweeking in the settings to be done...

Regards,
Faisal.

i've overcome the "dullness".

Faithful
Contrast -4 to -2
Centre-weighted metering
Aperture mode
Sharpening 5+
50mm f1.4 (cold-shouldered my 17-85)

Setting the contrast lower really helps to bring out the natural colours. Somehow mine 40D tends to underexpose, so I increased the exp comp in RAW. Most important of all, turn high tone priority off.:vhappy: