300D vs D70

[checker]

does any one have any idea why nikon is not adding vertical grip to D70?? isn't it wierd that people do use that feature a lot and they are not having them in their latest machine?

 

[mpenza]

D70 has no cable release because it uses wireless remote control...

300D has both wired and wireless release. D100/D2H/10D etc has wired release. For the scenarios I mentioned, a wired release works better (e.g. when shooting fireworks, the more serious photographers, be it Nikon, Canon or other users generally use wired release instead of wireless remote for bulb/timed exposure. Wireless remote has more lag and is less accurate in triggering).

It's just a small point though and not that important for 95% (my own gauge) of shooting.

 

[mpenza]

does any one have any idea why nikon is not adding vertical grip to D70?? isn't it wierd that people do use that feature a lot and they are not having them in their latest machine?

Probably one way for Nikon to differentiate the D70 from the D100 replacement which is targeted at the more "serious" segment. There is no real need for extra battery juice because a single battery lasts long enough, though a vertical shutter would be welcome.

 

[DragcoX]

do you have both camera's with you? can you post unbiased same condition shots in manual mode at the same lens aperture/focal length/distance from subject? with full 100% crops. then let the measurebators decide. I suggest you also edit the exif data to remove the camera information so that no one is biased.

ya i will do that, i'll post next week as now i need to fly off for biz trip liao. still deciding whether to bring my D70 or not hehe.

 

[boboshooter]

Look at it this way. Having a top of the range typewritter does not mean that you can create a good novel. The same applies for to photography, cam is juz a tool. The extra conveniences brought by a newer cam makes ur life easier in achieving the picture perfect u r after.

What matters most is the man behind the cam.

 

[DragcoX]

Probably one way for Nikon to differentiate the D70 from the D100 replacement which is targeted at the more "serious" segment. There is no real need for extra battery juice because a single battery lasts long enough, though a vertical shutter would be welcome.

Someone here mentioned that there is a vertical batt grip coming for the D70 rite?

 

[loupgarou]

yeah. probably means the D70 is not suitable for astro without a wire release?

 

[Watcher]

Winston, thanks ;p I'm not too sure about the pros and cons of the CLS and i-TTL over Canon's wireless flash (which in my opinion is better and more advanced than the one implemented on the SB80DX which I was using for half a year) and e-TTL. Perhaps, you want to highlight the key features?

Watcher, I'm a camera user and the brand does not matter

SB80DX is using only D-TTL. i-TTL can control up to 4 groups of 3 flashes in each group, etc. Each group can set to either be i-TTL, AA or even manual!

For samples, just look in this forum for the thread by Gadrian about the i-TTL really works.

As for Canon's flash, I have heard and read people moving over because of the inconsistency on E-TTL...

 

[Watcher]

try to remember the advantages of the D70 applies only to specialised scenarios:
eg: faster flash sync speed. how fast is your lens? how strong is your flash?
number of FPS, if you're going to shoot in raw mode, the advantages isn't so significant.

but if you shoot mainly sports/cars etc and haven't decided on anything yet, I suggest the D70

Faster flash sync? Please . Ask anyone here who don't want a faster X-sync. Hell, Canon users are clammering for this as well. RAW? For a entry level, many will be shooting JPG. Even on D100, few shoot RAW for the associated disadvantage of RAW (on all brands, btw): size and speed.

If Canon has the reverse in terms of features (ie faster x-sync, etc), I think you will not be saying the above...

 

[mpenza]

SB80DX is using only D-TTL. i-TTL can control up to 4 groups of 3 flashes in each group, etc. Each group can set to either be i-TTL, AA or even manual!

hmm... that sounds similar to the wireless operations of Canon flash but I'm not too sure how many groups could be controlled.

btw, does the D70 support FP sync like the D2H (i.e. sync faster than the X-sync speed)? I remember it doesn't but can't find the article any more.

 

[Watcher]

to counter quote this:
You pay $3k for a body that's worth $2k in 1 year, but there is nothing to upgrade to while protecting your lens investment

woe betide you if you break your camera, cos if you replace it with the same exact camera, its going to cost you.

while other brand manufacturer are selling faster AF/bigger sensors, better noise performance cameras at $2.5K

What if the other brand does not offer better? Then what? You are basing your arguement on you breaking the camera? Shouldn't that be handled by insurance and not the camera manufacturer? :dunno:

and damage is also inevitable. no electronic device will last forever.
does anyone has the MTBF of the D70/300D anyway?
I think the shutter can be replaced easily, but what about the sensors..so when the sensor goes, its time to replace the body.

Well, MTBF for D70 is expected to be more than 2 years anyway... :dunno:

Case study in point:
assuming you bought a 300D today, 3 years from now, you decide to upgrade, what camera can you buy?
since its alleged that canon EOL's between 8 mths to a year (let's assume one year). you find that you can get a 300D mk 3.
:thumbsd:
assuming you bought a D70 today. 3 years from now you decide to upgrade. since its alleged that Nikon EOL's between 1 year what camera can you buy? it would be the D70 mk2. which is at that point of time, you may be able to sell your camera for much higher than if you sold a 300D(which is 2 generations old) vs the D70 which is just 1 generation old), but you'll be buying a D70 mk2 which is 1 year older than the 300D mk3.

now, if you don't like my case study, please offer an alternate, I'll be sure to consider it.

But this is based on the assumption that 300D mk3 is significantly better than D70 mk 2. But what if it is not? I mean, D60 mk 2 (10D btw) is not significant better than D100. In fact, it is just about the same. So now what? More than once, you have based your assumption that newer => better. With Canon's product life cycle, there is very little time for them to react to what the competitors produce...

a) the AF-S is a 1.5x crop lens. ie: smaller image circle. as such cannot be used on full frame slr bodies.

to industry analysts, it would assume that nikon does not intend to move to an affordable Full Frame sensor anytime soon, thus they allow their users to "tie in" their investment into these lenses.

It also means that when Nikon does come up with FF sensor cheaply, those people with AF-S lenses will lose value on their investments cos they have to sell them and get new AF lenses.

You can't even even get your terminology right . Let be give you a free clue (save your money for the expensive L lenses ): 70-200 VR is a full frame AF-S lens...
As for those non-full frame cameras vs FF, try again. It has been debated to death. These lenses can be used on the lower end. The main reason is because of the FLM. With FF, the FLM is 1.0 so can use back the same existing range of lenses... , while the 1.5 FLM cameras will remain on the low end. That is why some new lenses are still FF.

b) canon has an EF-S mount is only for the 18-55 lens that only exists to sell the 300D.

So disposable mount heh? Sure...

However, neither of those are indicators of whether any company is going to sell FF camera bodies cheaply soon (ie: in 5 years)

however, we can be certain if some company comes up with a FF sensor body(ie: non nikon/non canon) at $2k , both nikon and canon will be pressurised to respond as well.
since the 4/3'rds group is out of the picture...I think they will take their own sweet time

The cost of manufacturing is not up to N or C.

 

[OpenLens]

yeah. probably means the D70 is not suitable for astro without a wire release?

Realisticly, any electronic shutter camera is not suitable for astonomical photography as the battery drains for as long as the shutter remains open. If you want to shoot the starts, best to get an F3, FM, FM2, or FM3a (my new fav body :lovegrin: ).

 

[Watcher]

hmm... that sounds similar to the wireless operations of Canon flash but I'm not too sure how many groups could be controlled.

btw, does the D70 support FP sync like the D2H (i.e. sync faster than the X-sync speed)? I remember it doesn't but can't find the article any more.

I heard that on the CLS, may be up to 64 flashes. :dunno: Check with D2H users

As for the second question, AFAIK, no.

 

[Watcher]

One strange observation: Canon users come over here to debate, while Nikon users don't go over. I wonder why...

 

[swhyge]

Realisticly, any electronic shutter camera is not suitable for astonomical photography as the battery drains for as long as the shutter remains open. If you want to shoot the starts, best to get an F3, FM, FM2, or FM3a (my new fav body :lovegrin: ).

Sometimes it is hard to learn new tricks!

 

[OpenLens]

One strange observation: Canon users come over here to debate, while Nikon users don't go over. I wonder why...

Insecurity. :dunno: :sweat: :bsmilie:

I guess Canon users feel the constant need to justify their gear purchases while Nikon users just like to take pictures with their kit. :thumbsup:

 

[mpenza]

I heard that on the CLS, may be up to 64 flashes. :dunno: Check with D2H users

As for the second question, AFAIK, no.

setting up such a lighting system would be fun ;p probably a few people pooling their flash than one person with 64 SB800 though ;p

Lack of FP sync could be an issue when shooting wide open with a fast lens under bright sun light. ND filters might need to be used. 300D does support FP flash (sync as fast as the fastest shutter speed of 1/4000s) but only with an external flash that supports it. The significantly reduced flash range also reduce the usefulness.

 

[Watcher]

setting up such a lighting system would be fun ;p probably a few people pooling their flash than one person with 64 SB80 though ;p

Lack of FP sync could be an issue when shooting wide open with a fast lens under bright sun light. ND filters might need to be used. 300D does support FP flash (sync as fast as the fastest shutter speed of 1/4000s) but only with an external flash that supports it. The significantly reduced flash range also reduce the usefulness.

Should be SB-800, right ?

And someone here wondered about the importance of high x-sync speed...

 

[OpenLens]

And someone here wondered about the importance of high x-sync speed...

Special effects? (like "drop of milk splashing on red surface")

Fill flash and a shallow DOF with medium+ speed film on a cloudless day at high noon? :bigeyes:

 

[mpenza]

Should be SB-800, right ?

And someone here wondered about the importance of high x-sync speed...

yup, should be SB800

It's something very good to have, especially for part of the segment Nikon targeted (first-time SLR users) who may come in touch with fast lenses for the first time and doesn't know what x-sync speed is all about (they will get lots of overexposed shots during under the sun with flash on if the xsync speed is slow ;p and may think the flash overpowers the background!!!). I missed that faster sync speed where I could shoot fashion shows using 1/1000s shutter speed with external flash on a prosumer digicam.