18th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre

[deckard]

Wise words.



Of course it's resentment. Who shouldn't resent a government who sent tanks into a throng of students?

What good could a demonstration do? A lot. It reminds us and the world what have happenned. We must remember these tragic events, and learn from them. But if we cannot even remember them, we will not learn from our mistakes.

Your last sentance is the worse of all. If everyone is like that, shut up and only worry about themselves, the world will probably be a worse place.

The fall of the Soviet Union started with the trade unionist's demand for democracy in Poland. Many landed in jail, and too many died in the course, but it served as the catalyst for massive changes in Europe. So, should Lech Walesa have walked away because the threat on his well being for organising the workers and leading the Solidarity movement?

Dr. Martin Luther King gave his life for civil rights for the African American in the US. If he had shut up to keep his body intact, well, histroy wil be very different.

Nelson Mandela spent most of 20 years in jail and was the lightning rod for over throwing apartheid in South Africa. Are you saying he should have watch out for his body and gave up his sgtruggle for freedom?

How about Aung San Suu Kyi? As we speak, she is still under house arrest in Burma becuase for her pro-democracy and civil rights stand for the people of Burma. Is the future of the people of Burma her business?

A lot of things in this world is really not our business, becasue they do not impact us directly. We can always walk away to protect our skin. Many do jsut that. But, very fortunate for man kind, a few did not, and they ultimately made a difference.

well said, glad to know that the spirit of democracy is alive and well. singapore needs more democrates to keep the spirit of democracy alive!

 

[Jeanette.z]

Of course it's resentment. Who shouldn't resent a government who sent tanks into a throng of students?

What good could a demonstration do? A lot. It reminds us and the world what have happenned. We must remember these tragic events, and learn from them. But if we cannot even remember them, we will not learn from our mistakes.

Your last sentance is the worse of all. If everyone is like that, shut up and only worry about themselves, the world will probably be a worse place.

The fall of the Soviet Union started with the trade unionist's demand for democracy in Poland. Many landed in jail, and too many died in the course, but it served as the catalyst for massive changes in Europe. So, should Lech Walesa have walked away because the threat on his well being for organising the workers and leading the Solidarity movement?

Dr. Martin Luther King gave his life for civil rights for the African American in the US. If he had shut up to keep his body intact, well, histroy wil be very different.

Nelson Mandela spent most of 20 years in jail and was the lightning rod for over throwing apartheid in South Africa. Are you saying he should have watch out for his body and gave up his sgtruggle for freedom?

How about Aung San Suu Kyi? As we speak, she is still under house arrest in Burma becuase for her pro-democracy and civil rights stand for the people of Burma. Is the future of the people of Burma her business?

A lot of things in this world is really not our business, becasue they do not impact us directly. We can always walk away to protect our skin. Many do jsut that. But, very fortunate for man kind, a few did not, and they ultimately made a difference.

By resentment, it meant more of the HK resentment to China, not because of 6.4, but more of the government itself after 1997. In other words, HK people make use of 6.4 to say 'I h*** China government' because of the pouring in of mainland Chinese, economics, or just the way Beijing behave.

All of the above people u mentioned seems to be great. Obviously I can't deny that. Some of them got Nobel peace prize. And Gandi as well. But whether they have done the people real good is another question.

Ann San Su Kyi is of course great and her name will be in the history book. But how is Mymmar going right now? The people still suffering and the millitary still trumph. And unless some superpower jump out and try to rescue, their future is not not going anywhere.

Same with Nelson Mandela.

And the changes in Europe was mainly due to USSR and US's doing.

Still I've to admit that I repect them but not as much as I respect Mao Ze Dong or Abraham Lincoln or even our Lee Kuan Ywee. They are the people really use their intelligence to fight, not just their believes.

Maybe telling those people to shut up and mind their own busness are words that are too strong. Should I say...

If you really want to do something, do it properly. If you don't have that intelligence to do it and just want to sacrifice....that will get u fame but won't do others too much good.
If these people really want to help to remember 6.4, try something more construction (get the message to the schools, start a forum to analyze what's the cause of 6.4 and how to prevent such tragedies from happening again).

But obviously that's just some arguements. All I can do is to watch and see;p and maybe help our own island a little bit.

 

[moriarty]

So many ppl!

XD...6.4 is also not so much of their business anyway, I feel they just want to show defiance to the mainland authority by using this chance.

Let's, for argument's sake, agree that it is non of their business and they just want to show their defiance to the mainland authority by using this chance. What is wrong with that? It is not about sanctity of democracy. It is about sanctity of wishing for perceived betterment and expressing it.

I have read you using the word "impure" many a times in this thread and I haven't been able to figure out what you mean by that. Is the gathering impure because tianmen square protest was non of their business and they still gather to show their emotion? It can't be. Because, then we will all be impure. You are in a movie theatre. The hero's wife is killed by the villain. You shed a tear unknowingly. Is that impure? The hero's wife getting killed is non of your business, after all. I would say it isn't impure at all. It is normal human reaction. To feel for someone is humane.

Is the gathering impure because they observe the anniversary to show their defiance? Why should it be impure to do that? During the independence struggle of India, Gandhi took the opportunity of raised salt tax to show his defiance for British. Was that impure of him?

Is the gathering impure because it is not neutral? (The gathering obviously supports the idea behind Tianmen square protest). Consider an example. Four terrorists going in a truck to indiscriminately kill innocent human beings. But, the truck met with an accident and they die. Are you likely to observe an anniversary of the terrorists' death? Hardly. Why? Because, you don't identify with their cause. We observe an anniversary only if we identify with the human beings or with their cause. If we identify with their cause, it is inevitable that we will be biased. It is hardly likely that you will be neutral if you identify with someone's cause (Consider the movie example above. You will be biased for the hero). Identifying with a cause isn't impure nor is expressing it.

By the way, the incident of Tianmen Square was not actually doomed to be a bloody event. Those who provoked itand those who were provoked went for a peaceful protest. The government reaction made it bloody. Now, let us say that the violent reaction by the government was very predictable. The protesters went ahead with expression of their angst even in the face of imminent violent reaction by the powerful. They defended their right to express their desire and they are admirable because of that.

 

[artofshuenalogy]

Last photo :thumbsup:

 

[zoossh]

there are some people who are natural inspirationist and some are implementers of the good beliefs, but they ain't opposite conflicting figures, and are absolutely different from people who resort to brutality and propanganda. nehru is an ardent follower of gandhi but nevertheless takes his pathway and his own stance. although here we are talking about people in power.

those who ain't, will take the following pathway as spoken by you, or they are just as lucky as the east timorese with their independence supported, or they will be as desperate as the chechens who have unfortunately resorted to terrorism for their deserved independence. there is no one single fate that is to be followed becos opinions can vary so wide on the same kind of issue on different subjects.

by the way, the movement are pushed by the democrats, which is in line from the start. although the FLG seemingly mimics everyone, and seem to side any different parties against CCP, be it HK, Taiwan or even the States, the intention and movement i would say is fairly pure and consistent throughout.

By resentment, it meant more of the HK resentment to China, not because of 6.4, but more of the government itself after 1997. In other words, HK people make use of 6.4 to say 'I h*** China government' because of the pouring in of mainland Chinese, economics, or just the way Beijing behave.

All of the above people u mentioned seems to be great. Obviously I can't deny that. Some of them got Nobel peace prize. And Gandi as well. But whether they have done the people real good is another question.

Ann San Su Kyi is of course great and her name will be in the history book. But how is Mymmar going right now? The people still suffering and the millitary still trumph. And unless some superpower jump out and try to rescue, their future is not not going anywhere.

Same with Nelson Mandela.

And the changes in Europe was mainly due to USSR and US's doing.

Still I've to admit that I repect them but not as much as I respect Mao Ze Dong or Abraham Lincoln or even our Lee Kuan Ywee. They are the people really use their intelligence to fight, not just their believes.

Maybe telling those people to shut up and mind their own busness are words that are too strong. Should I say...

If you really want to do something, do it properly. If you don't have that intelligence to do it and just want to sacrifice....that will get u fame but won't do others too much good.
If these people really want to help to remember 6.4, try something more construction (get the message to the schools, start a forum to analyze what's the cause of 6.4 and how to prevent such tragedies from happening again).

But obviously that's just some arguements. All I can do is to watch and see;p and maybe help our own island a little bit.

 

[zoossh]

besides, the person who sticks by his beliefs and refuses to stand out to debate and negotiate is the one who is going to lose the reasoning on the debate on a fair ground. That is why some authorities do not bulge and never bothers to explain - becos they can't.